Had to activate PLB

[DaveNoble]

I said in my first post - that it is very easy to offer advice sitting at home - well away from the situation. What you do in a tricky situation is not always the best choice when you consider things later on. When I started bushwalking - there were no mobile phones or PLB's - so to walk safely - we had to be resourceful enough to cope when things went wrong.

Also - if you can walk into Kanongaroo one way (eg from Carlons Farm) - then it is not too difficult to walk in or out via other routes in terms of the actual difficulty involved. The other routes are not really any harder or easier - as long as you can navigate and have the maps.

If you were not prepared to do this - then you could have climbed up Mt Kanongaroo (and higher if necessary) to gain mobile phone reception, made a call to say you might be delayed, and then gone back down again to your camp. This would not have taken very long. But this may be one of the things you think of later on, and not when you are there.

Also - as I said above - you did not do the silliest thing - and try and cross the river when it was dangerous. I can remember the first bushwalkers S & R I took part in - looking for a scout leader on the Shoalhaven, who tried to cross the river when it was in flood. His body was found in the dam a few weeks later.......

Dave

[David M]

Not to be nitpicky but I would like to see how the cost of a rescue is calculated. If its something like the department budget plus expenses divided by number of rescues I tend to th8nk costs for individual rescues are grossly exaggerated. Even for on call staff plus fuel, overtime where necessary, permits (and whatever else variables exist) I could not fathom a simple rescue above costing $10000.
im not saying use the things for no good reason, far from it. Especially if several rescues are required in the same time obbiously resourcing will be an issue, just k8nd of irks me when "costs" are thrown around by the media. Love to know how thats worked out

I am a huge believer in small government and individual responsibility but I have to say that it is difficult to cost these rescue operations. It is true that a gas turbine chopper might cost $2000 per hour or more to run plus staff cost but government departments have a fixed budget therefore the rescue is not going to cause them to require extra funding. Whilst I have no direct personal knowledge of rescue operations I HAVE been involved in costing military operations. People say wars in Afghanistan or Iraq or going to the Antarctic to rescue a French sailor cost so much but the point is that if the military is not doing these things they are doing exactly the same things practicing for same. The only extra difference in costs is the wartime allowance paid to soldiers (used to be about $200 per day for the privilege of getting shot at) and the cost of expensive munitions which might not be used in training. I imagine it is a similar scenario for rescue costs.

I agree that the OP made the right decision and whether there were alternatives or not if he felt endangered he made the right call to call in rescue services. Being too afraid to call rescue will result in death in some cases, being too eager to call will merely be an inconvenience. Having said that, people who call rescue because they can't be bothered to walk out even though they are capable should be financially penalised. The OP should not. He pays taxes and can reasonably expect this rescue service. As a taxpayer, the fact that he deeply considered whether to make the call or not and also posted here is good enough for me.

[Onestepmore]

Kanangraboyd, thanks for posting this. It's been a very enlightening discussion, and has brought up many points to consider.

I think a live person later debating wether he should have activated a PLB is better off than a drowned body with an unused PLB in his pack

(And this is from someone who has been trapped in a car that was washed off a causeway in a flash flooded creek with a loaded horse trailer attached, after the car failed to brake going down a hill on the approach. Don't underestimate what an angry river can do)

[wayno]

yeah forget what you see on man vs wild when you're in a river, if in doubt stay out. i was lucky when i got swept down a flood river, it was pretty mild and it let me get out...

[troutboy]

Gday kb , for what its worth i believe you made the correct decision at the time. Your trip planning is much more thorough than most and I know you take things very seriously.I met you via fishraider a couple of years back and and am still in the process of putting my kit together,hoping to join you on one of your trips soon.Thanks for posting your dramas lots of good info for all. cheers Jamie

[Drifting]

Awww- you shoulda swum it. Carry your pack in your teeth. No worries.

Silliness aside- I've been in the same situation without an EPIRB, before they were even available in fact. I couldn't make it out in time, and the authorities started searching before I could slog my way to a payphone. (In the days before mobiles...)

The fire chief, the sheriff AND the chief of police all took turns ripping me to shreds, and even the ambo who was treating me for hypothermia joined in. Granted, I was younger and stupider, and deserved my dressing down, unlike Kanagraboyd, BUT the point is that the big concern they all had was the safety of their own people in flood searches. A helicopter deployment is a hell of a lot less costly than a full-scale S&R, and in a case such as this, where KB did everything right and got caught out by the vagaries of Mother Nature, I can certainly see why he was told that he did the right thing.

[wayno]

ah yes the days before cell phones,
we got out to a road end late once, our ride wasnt there they'd left without us.... so we were siting in the middle of nowhere late at night hoping they'd come back. otherwise there would be a search started.... luckily they did come back...
now we'd just ring or text as soon as we had cell phone coverage which we would have had on the ridge hours before we got out and tell everyone what was happening.. no one would worry..

[puredingo]

I don't take a mobile phone with me when I go bush, there is never reception and it reminds me of work, I hate the *&%$#! things most of the time anyway.

One time at the persistent nagging of "her indoors" I did take it and slipped A over T in waist high rapids...The phone never worked again. Irony?

[flatfoot]

Sound like you did the correct thing. Always respect water.

Might have been a good time to have a spot messenger. I know they cop a bit of flak but mine has been flawless in the 2-3 ? years I've had it. (spot 2)
I have the custom message set-up just for your situation. I think mine says "I will be out later than expected, All is well but have been delayed" I make this clear to everyone on the spot message list and also via an intentions email what this means. ie; high river or even a minor injury that will slow me right down. The google maps link helps too as people can see where your at.
It's a tricky situation though and fortunately one I'm yet to find myself in.

Like Hallu said, these sat devices hopefully will continue to improve moving forwards.

I had to set my Spot 2 off in an emergency last year. It was slow in getting a signal out due to a nearby cliffline. I ended up getting a PLB due to apparently better performance under tree cover or at the base of cliffs.

Edit - (after further reading of the remaining thread). The reasoning and arguments presented for different ways of dealing with the situation have been an interesting read.

[peregrinator]

I’m hoping someone might be able to clarify one detail. In the exchange of e-mails between bernieq and AMSA, this statement from AMSA fails to make sense to me.

When Bushwalking and travelling on land, also lodge trip details with the local Police in the area you are travelling, as they will be contacted and tasked by AMSA SAR if your beacon was activated. The reason I mention this is in the event the PLB is activated, once AMSA SAR receive the satellite signal they can search the registered Beacon Hex Id and access your registered details to attempt to make contact with yourself or your listed emergency contacts to determine the distress situation, which is why registering trip details is of great assistance to Search & Rescue.

The second sentence seems to start with one idea then finish with some disconnected ones, mostly just stating the obvious. I might be wrong, but it seems to have nothing to do with the comment in the first sentence about notifying police. So does anyone have any idea what AMSA is trying to say here?

I carry a PLB and log my intentions on AMSA’s website but have never thought of also giving that information to police. Is there any point in doing that? I would have thought that because triggering the PLB means that AMSA instigates a rescue, then if they decided that police might have a role to play at some point, they would also instigate that.

Thanks to all for contributing to the discussion of this very important topic.

[bernieq]

this statement from AMSA fails to make sense to me.

I agree, peregrinator, it is a bit disjointed. I made sense of it by leaving out “The reason I mention this is” and treating the paragraph as containing two ideas :
1. the Police are tasked by AMSA
2. the Police will attempt to contact the phone numbers listed in the PLB on-line record.

I will reiterate my opinion that people should not rely solely on Police to hold trip info and react in a timely manner if you are overdue. I leave trip info with : Reliable friend, AMSA PLB record, local Police - in that order of importance.

[Strider]

It is written with passive voice and is missing a comma or two, but overall all they are saying is that letting the Police know where you are going will assist them in locating you if your PLB is activated.

[SteveJ]

The AMSA web site can be access by registered PLB users and under 'Beacon Details' you can log your trip details, infact you can upload a doc with exstensive trip details. I do this on all my trips so they have as many details as possible re routes, activities (packrafting, walking etc), gear etc etc. I would be intrested to know how many other folks do this??. I have never register my trip plans with the local police (as in many instances there are no police in my part of the world), I do however always update my trip details on the AMSA site. If I press the button the details are there ready straight away.

Steve

[SteveJ]

Oh yer and....even when I go to NZ walking, packrafting, fishing etc.

[wayno]

Oh yer and....even when I go to NZ walking, packrafting, fishing etc.

just as well because apart from at mt cook, and on the more expensive grat walk huts, doc don't give a stuff what your intentions are and thres no facility to lodge your intentions with the nz authorities, you have to give them to your friends and brief them

[GPSGuided]

I thought NZ was a tad short on coppers!

[SteveJ]

Oh yer and....even when I go to NZ walking, packrafting, fishing etc.

just as well because apart from at mt cook, and on the more expensive grat walk huts, doc don't give a stuff what your intentions are and thres no facility to lodge your intentions with the nz authorities, you have to give them to your friends and brief them

Perhaps NZ backcountry travellers should be buying and registering their PLB in Australia with AMSA, probaly not legal but.... some major benifits having the alerting agency knowing a bunch of info in the first instance?

[GPSGuided]

How does the kiwi agency run their system? Surly they allow info entry, no?

[Strider]

Oh yer and....even when I go to NZ walking, packrafting, fishing etc.

just as well because apart from at mt cook, and on the more expensive grat walk huts, doc don't give a stuff what your intentions are and thres no facility to lodge your intentions with the nz authorities, you have to give them to your friends and brief them

Perhaps NZ backcountry travellers should be buying and registering their PLB in Australia with AMSA, probaly not legal but.... some major benifits having the alerting agency knowing a bunch of info in the first instance?

Big difference between attaching info to a PLB registration and a local intentions notice.

[Rob A]

How does the kiwi agency run their system?

www.beacons.org.nz and then www.maritimenz.govt.nz

Read through their Q&A (FAQ). Often the advice touted on this forum is just wrong.

[Strider]

I think some people are just reading what was said incorrectly. Not having an intentions systems in place with DOC is completely unrelated to distress beacon management via Maritime NZ.

[wayno]

in nz theres no official agency to record trip intentions..

[Strider]

in nz theres no official agency to record trip intentions..

Not even attached to PLB registration? How do they expect to find people quickly following an activation?

[wayno]

you register your plb and thats it, theres no system i know of to match up trip intentions with registered plb details.. other than when your contacts are rung up to try and find out whether the emergency is for real or not and any information they have on your trip...

[matagi]

Wayno, do they have "intentions" books at the starting points of various walks/tracks? Where you sign in when you set off and give your destination and estimated time?

[Rob A]

Nope viewtopic.php?f=32&t=9003&p=125141&hilit=intentions+system#p125141

[Strider]

Nope viewtopic.php?f=32&t=9003&p=125141&hilit=intentions+system#p125141

In some ways this is a good thing, as it encourages people to take responsibility and buy/hire a PLB for their walk.

[wayno]

to a certain extent it does, but the experience of a park ranger (graham kates? runs softrock.co.nz) at arthurs pass had him conclude a lot of tourists are impulsive especially day walkers and may only make their mind up on the day as to what they will do. can be for a variety of reasons they leave no intentions... they dont think about doing it, or they dont have cell phone or internet access. they expect there to be an intentions system at the doc office, often the doc offices were the only way people would leave intentions and that no longer happens....
when doc pulled their intentions system graham resigned from DOC and from SAR, he felt there would be too many needless rescues as a result of the withdrawal of the intentions system... internet access isnt that widespread at arthurs pass , not even in the accomodation places.... cant recall if theres any cell phone coverage.... not a unique situation around the remoter doc offices... and entrances to national parks... you get a higher volume of climbers and more dangerous climbs in mt cook which may be why they kept the intentions system.... you still get a high volume of walkers at arthurs pass.... we're not talking craddle valley volumes though. can still be in the three digits per day in summer, and a lot of walkers arent seasoned walkers with locator beacond