Light gaiters Vs Australian snakes venom

[Overlandman]

[quote="Mark F
Has the snake any venom to inject - has it used up its venom on a recent meal.

A venomous snake always has venom, it is like our saliva, sure enough if it hasn't used its venom for a long time, it may be stronger (more potent).

I know if I purchase these gaiters I would get bitten above the knee.

Occasionally whilst catching snakes I will put my foot on them to assist in pinning them down, but my biggest fear is getting done by a jack jumper in the process. I always wear long trousers and long sleeves, and good boots.

Thanks Jack for your information re the Brown Snake bite.

Regards OLM

[sebastien]

It seems to me that the op needs to work out the issues with a bit more thought. Unless you come across a species spitting cobra (Naja genus etc) where the issue is whether it hits you in the eye (venom ejected onto the skin has no effect), you are discussing whether, when biting, the snake chooses to envenomate the bitee and the structure of the snake's fangs that allows it to achieve the envenomation. There are several factors to consider here:
The species of the snake - how close to the end of the fangs is the venom injection point and bite strength.
Does the snake want to inject venom - hunting or defensive reaction.
Has the snake any venom to inject - has it used up its venom on a recent meal.
Does any fabric (gaiters, pants ?) keep the injection points (not the end of the fangs) from entering the bitee and allow venom to be injected.
... (the list is extensive)

My personal view (on a risk management basis) is that gaiters are really unnecessary to protect against snake bite given the frequency of bites but long pants will limit the the risk of envenomation to a very low level.

Yes, the venom canal ends above the fang tip. It results in much of the venom being deposited on the skin surface or the pant, gaiters.

I think that your personal view about gaiters being unnecessary to protect against snake bite is absolutely right.

[sebastien]

around 50% of defensive bites are dry bites, but I don't know whether those stats extend across all species.

I read 80% somewhere! Snakes do not waste their venom.

But i do not think that it is possible to recognize a dry bite.
In this case, all bites have to be considered as being envenoms.

[slparker]

But i do not think that it is possible to recognize a dry bite.
In this case, all bites have to be considered as being envenoms.

That's my advice.
My comment related to the risk, not the treatment.
The only time that I would disregard a snakestrike is if the skin wasn't broken. Even then you have to examine both legs carefully.

[sebastien]

But i do not think that it is possible to recognize a dry bite.
In this case, all bites have to be considered as being envenoms.

That's my advice.
My comment related to the risk, not the treatment.
The only time that I would disregard a snakestrike is if the skin wasn't broken. Even then you have to examine both legs carefully.

I agree, i never heard of a sure way to know if the venom has been released.

[sebastien]

So….

Light nylon gaiters are not more or less efficient as gaiters made in canvass or cordura.
Moondog 55, slparker and Mark were absolutly right when they wrote that the real efficiency of the gaiters to protect you from a snake bite is their ability to keep a space between your skin and the gaiter.
It means, in some ways, that a wide trouser would be as efficient ( or inefficient!) to protect you from a snake bite that some cordura or canvass gaitesr.

That's why the gaiters company do not communicate about the ability of their gaiters to protect you from a snake bite. It would be a false information.
Only specific and quite heavy ( until 800 grammes ) gaiters are specially made to prevent a bite snake.

As said today, around 50% of defensive bites are dry. But there is no way to be certain if a bite is dry or not.
Venom bites are more likely when the snake is angry or hungry.
Because the venom canal of Australian snakes actually ends above the fang tip it frequently results in much of the venom being deposited on the skin surface.

As said in this topic, it would be very unlucky to be beaten, especially if you are walking on a track. Off track is another story.
But it is important to know the efficiency and the limits of your gear.

Thanks to all of you for your answers.

[ribuck]

In hot weather, a canvas gaiter is less uncomfortable than a nylon gaiter.

[GPSGuided]

Until some old canvas gaiter gets all soggy and saturated with muddy water.


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[JD The Bushwalker]

I have never really been concerned about snakes. I walk a fair bit in the Blue Mountains (both on and off track) and am yet to see a snake. Occasionally when it the weather is quite warm, it may cross my mind, but I am always reassured by the fact that I have my first aid, and emergency procedures in place. In the unlikely event that I do get bitten I know what to do. I usually wear shorts when walking but if it is particularly scrubby I will put on long pants. I don't personally own a pair of gaiters and don't see the need for my purposes. If you're worried about snakes and a pair of gaiters will help with your peace of mind, then go ahead and wear some.

[DarrenM]

I have never really been concerned about snakes. I walk a fair bit in the Blue Mountains (both on and off track) and am yet to see a snake.

They were there. If I had a dollar.....
On a side note, I went and watched a mate at the La Perouse snake show yesterday. I'd recommend anyone that wants to see how all the main varieties of snakes react to stepping on etc, go and watch Rob do his thing. Very worthwhile and more than happy to chat. From 1.30pm every Sunday

[ribuck]

I walk a fair bit in the Blue Mountains (both on and off track) and am yet to see a snake.

This comment surprised me! I've been in Katoomba for some of the past two weeks and already I have seen two snakes. At the point where the Lyrebird Dell track leaves Lone Pine Avenue I saw one just writhing around and coiling itself continually, as if it couldn't get comfortable. Maybe it was trying to shed its skin or something. Then yesterday on Prince Henry Cliff Walk I saw another, just a baby though.

In previous years in the Blue Mountains I've encountered snakes on the Victoria Falls track; on the track between Blue Gum Forest and Junction Rock; on the firetrail between Faulconbridge and the Grose River; near Lockley's Pylon (the biggest snake I've ever seen); Glenbrook Gorge (this one dropped out of a tree that I'd brushed against, an inch from my face); the Wollongambe River (it wriggled off its rock and went for a swim) and others whose location I don't specifically remember including a death adder and a big carpet snake somewhere in the lower blue mountains. Plenty more if I were to include the Kanangra area.

And one time in the depths of Claustral Canyon a snake was on a small rock that we needed to step on to avoid an extra swim. "The snake must have fallen in to the canyon from the cliff, and will be so cold that he can't move", said the leader confidently as he stepped right next to it, causing the snake to depart with great speed and agility.

[Happy Pirate]

Don't take this the wrong way but personally if you are concerned about snake bite just go with the heavier duty ones just for the peace of mind. Ask yourself if you'd be more nervous/cautious wearing the thinner gaiters.

As a life long keen amateur herpetologist I think this is the best advice.
But also, think not just about heavy / light but about loose / tight as a loose fitting gaiter will be more likely to deflect a bite than a skin hugging one. Also think about the layers under your gaiters - socks, pants etc.
There is no science about this as there are too many variables - snake species; aggression level, attack force, mouth size, fang length, attack angle blah blah...

But seriously the amount of fear versus likelihood of attack is way out of proportion. Better to worry about falling tree limbs, flash floods or accidental cliff collapse...
Not to mention the biggest killers on bushwalks - heart failure, navigation error and lack of preparation.
Steve

[A Jay]

Personally I stopped worrying about being bitten by snakes 20+ years ago but a canvas gaiter is still what I would call lightweight when compared to a pair of gumboots which is what most farmers wear

Do you go bush-bashing in shorts or wear long trousers? What about the middle of summer?

[Mark F]

I usually wear light weight long nylon pants (no gaiters) but I don't by choice walk if the temperature is over 30. In my younger days it was shorts all the time and no gaiters. To me gaiters are for protecting the legs from scrub and mud rather than snakes. I feel that for the walking I do long pants are more comfortable than shorts and gaiters but gaiters do have a role when off track or in very muddy/snowy conditions.

[Moondog55]

Going back a ways. I like my heavy canvas gaiters even in hot summer [ and I am primarily a winter walker ]and this is even tho I have UL breathable ones, snake bite prevention is a side benefit, I have found that only the heavy canvas ones are immune to saw grass, spinifex and bindi-i seed pods

[A Jay]

Thanks guys. Do we know what temperature are the British Goretex Gaitors for, and Moondog did you wear your gaitors with shorts and joggers, or always proper hiking boots? I'm talking about hot summer here... If you were on a multi-day hike, would you take long trousers with you or just shorts? Are trousers too hot for summer hiking?

[johnk1]

Shorts and canvas gaiters all year round for me.

[A Jay]

Shorts and canvas gaiters all year round for me.

I see! Can you wear gaitors just with joggers/trail shoes, or do you really need to wear hiking boots?

[johnk1]

Joggers or trail shoes are fine. Depending on the gaiter, just remove the heel strap and use the lace hook.

[A Jay]

Joggers or trail shoes are fine. Depending on the gaiter, just remove the heel strap and use the lace hook.

Yeah the heel strap, that was the main problem I was worried about. Ok I'll do that, thanks a lot!

[slparker]

Joggers or trail shoes are fine. Depending on the gaiter, just remove the heel strap and use the lace hook.

Yeah the heel strap, that was the main problem I was worried about. Ok I'll do that, thanks a lot!

Many trail runners will fit a gaiter strap as they have a heel. I have some ultralight trail runners where I cut off a few tread 'knobs' to accommodate a gaiter strap just nicely as I prefer to use the strap if I can. Some gaiters have a wire instead of a plastic strap which fits most shoe soles.

[Moondog55]

Shock cord
For LW runners or shoes a simple easily replaceable loop of shock cord works very well. I am still on the original shockcord loop on my WE canvas gaiters because I ran the elastic thru a short bit of tubular webbing and siliconed the webbing to take the wear

[north-north-west]

Have a look at the TasGear OffTrack Gaiter if you want something seriously designed and built for Australia.

[rcaffin]

I remember abseiling down Arathusa Canyon in the Grose Valley once. I needed to set the next rope, and I thought I would use the pretty coloured sling already in place. Um. The poor thing was so cold it had trouble waving its head at me. So I used a sling somewhere else.

These days I only wear gaiters for protection against the scrub, AND to keep dirt and gravel out of my shoes. So light Lycra gaiters most of the time.

Cheers
Roger

[Neo]

I have the original model from Tasgear.

Do add heat which was nice in winter and didn't bother me last summer.

Will eventually get a pair of the lighter version

[puredingo]

I don't know how people get away with wearing joggers, light runners, volleys etc. I wear shoes but the heavy duty, thick, ridged, purpose built bushwalking type and I'm replacing them roughly 10-12 monthly (which is a pain as this is just about the time they are properly broken in) because they're shredded.
Obviously this is subject to terrain and usage but still.

Or maybe I'm just a heavy stepping foot dragger?

[Neo]

I've done short sections of longer walks to test the Five Fingers. Makes you go a pinch slower but adds another level to the experience (feel the ground).

Just picked up a new pair of Oboz which are like trail sneakers. Some of the heel foam had collapsed on the old pair (1+yrs) and probably contributed to my new kneecap pain!

[Mark F]

You must be doing some kms to wear them out in a year.

One thing that happens when you use lighter footwear is that it is far easier to adjust your footfall to land in a clear spot and thus less wear and tear. You can also lift your feet a bit higher with the same effort.

[crollsurf]

A friend who used to work with snakes said a pair of trousers that are baggy from the knee down are probably as good as a gaiter. Also said Australian snakes have short fangs and the first bite is almost always a dry bite. Just don't mess with the snake after that. The second bite will definitely be full of venom.

Personally I take a compression bandage and a PLB. If bitten, trigger PLB, apply compression bandage and relax, well that's the plan anyway.