4WD vs 2WD for track accessibility?

[Hallu]

There are some small 2WD SUVs like the Toyota Rav4, or the Mitsubishi ASX. They're quite cheap, have high clearance, and probably good tires. I've tested the ASX when I got one after renting what was supposed to be a "compact" vehicle, and it went well on some rough Grampians roads, peppered with rocks. It had a 70L fuel tank, and you can do about 600 km with it. Those are popular in Australia, as they're city SUVs, so you could probably get one from the 2000s and on your budget.

[sthughes]

Depends a lot on the individual too, if you are the sort of person that stresses every time you get a little stone chip or touch a curb then get a 4x4. I know I used to take my 2WD places that some people thought required a "proper 4x4". Once I met a guy walking in a track as he didn't think he should take his 4x4 Navara in, he was a little shocked to see my Yaris with 205/35 R17 road tires appear over a steep rocky crest. Having said that, the under-body of my Yaris looked like it had been attacked with a sledge hammer, but it was still going strong when I up-sized to an Outlander.

Where the Outlander excels over the Yaris is mud, snow, ice etc. where it's all about traction. The extra clearance makes for a more relaxed and faster trip most of the time (as you don't have to dodge every rock/pot hole/rut etc) but 95% of the time the Yaris could have made it where the Outlander goes. Lately I've been toying with the idea of a switch to a more fuel efficient small wagon with the same sized boot, but then I go for a drive on an icy road where the Camry in front of me is spinning it's wheels frantically to get up the hill and think again. That is until I get home and fill the petrol tank, at which time I ponder some more!!

Worst thing is you often need to maintain momentum in a 2wd. Where a proper 4x4 with a low range box could carefully crawl through a tough bit, a 2wd has to keep moving at a decent speed if there isn't really enough traction. Which of course makes damage far more likely.

[flyfisher]

Always the driver, the vehicle does just what the driver makes it do.
Surely the driver knows (or certainly should know) what the tyres are like, how much slower he needs to go in the wet, the condition of suspension and brakes.
This really is the first step towards safe driving. No I'm not a nanny on the road, You can feel the grip of your tyres through the steering wheel .
So many accidents on wet roads caused by incompetent drivers that should know better or find out better.
FF

[ferozious]

It seems that people like their high horses when it comes to criticizing other people's driving

Regardless of whether or not you're driving to the conditions, you can still find yourself in an emergency situation if a hazard suddenly presents itself.

Strider is probably pointing out that a short wheel base vehicle won't perform as well as a longer wheel base in these situations.

[flyfisher]

Just a general roundup of driving to the conditions. Police in Tassie are always imploring drivers to do just that.

FF

[Grabeach]

It really depends on where you want to go and how relaxed you want to be getting there and back.

Decades back on club trips, we often drove on rough tracks to the start of walks. The Nattai comes to mind, and older mates even tell of driving the lower Blue Mountains fire trails. Often there would be one large 4WD and a family sized car. From our experience, unless very wet, the car would invariable get there BUT for the car:-
1. Not uncommon to get underbody damage, especially if carrying overnight packs in the boot. The company car drivers worried less about this!
2. Slower, both in trying to avoid the above damage and having to stop to lighten the 'passenger' load.
3. The occasional need to tow the car out of slippery stuff.
4. More stressed, having to continually wrestle the car round the many rocks that seem to be between car and 4WD clearance size.
In summary, we could sometimes only take a car because there was a 4WD to get it out of potential situations.

These days, if we're talking purely about access for bushwalking, you basically only need a car, mainly because most of the above type roads have had locked gates installed or the existing gates have been moved several kilometres closer to civilisation. I have a Prado, but most of the time it sits in the garage and I take the Corolla. You will only need a decent 4WD if you're exploring some of the lesser walked areas. Yes, such trails still exist, but no way will I facilitate their closure by saying where.

[The Perambulator]

I would look at a tray back ute- through a tarp over it (if you have a rear rack) and you have a comfortable camping platform. I have had 2 V6 Rodeos, they both came with factory fitted limited slip diffs - in practice not far of 4wd and plenty of ground clearance.

[Travis22]

Over the years ive use commodores, a mazda 323, a jeep, a patrol, landcruiser's, a wrx and a forester.

The forester was my favorite for hiking due to comfort, capacity, fuel efficiency (diesel, 5L/100km) and ability. In all honesty tho there is nowhere a forester could get that a standard falcon or commodore couldnt follow IMO.

Personally i dont like parking our 4x4's on the side of the track, given the high value of the many accessories fitted. As such, i dont use our 4x4's on multi day hiking trips.

Travis.

[ninjapuppet]

Travis, i'm really amazed at your 5L/100km diesel!

what usage are you getting with pure city driving?

[subaruby]

Highly recommend a Subaru forester, preferably the 2.5 litre.
Safety with the awd especially on the dirt roads.
Security if you find yourself in a situation where 4wd will get you unstuck. ie drive to a campsite in the dry, camp overnight it rains and the dirt track turns into a mud track.
You can buy aftermarket bash plates for vehicle protection, decent tyres, and suspension lifts.
Plus comfortable and economical.
I have had a 1984 Subaru leone wagon, 1998 Subaru Liberty and now a 2006 Subaru Forester.

[Travis22]

Travis, i'm really amazed at your 5L/100km diesel!

what usage are you getting with pure city driving?

It was my wifes vehicle (and she's not the best at trying to be efficient ) but around town the worst i ever saw her economy blow out to was 6L/100km. Stop and go, short trips to work and back etc.

She now has a 150 Prado. Ive just returned from doing about 800-850km on the weekend in it, Home out to Mt Buffalo and back. Got 8.5L/100km which isnt to bad, and it would have been low 7'sL had i stuck to 100km/h speed.

Not bad for a largish vehicle with a 7 seat capacity. And it was fairly well loaded with 2 adults + bub and gear.

Makes me want to cry when i drive my old Landcruiser around and get mid 20L's per 100km with a top speed of 80km/h

Travis.

[flyfisher]

Hi Travis,
Great fuel economy from the Forester and the Prado but the Landcruiser..........you should light a little fire and park over it. lol
My get away vehicle is a 4.6l Rangie and it regularley does 14 l/100 with a top speed of maybe 200.
Not fantastic economy but the comfort and offroad ability are great.
Still love that Forester economy though.

John

[Travis22]

Nothing against ya Rangie John

But my old girl has taken us across Australia time and time again and honestly there is no other vehicle out there that i would jump into tomorrow and visit the most remote locations in Australia.



Travis.

ps, anyone guess the location, great hiking around there and up to the top.

[Avatar]

Anyone used a Subaru XV? Thinking of upgrading my 2000 TS Astra - 130mm clearance is a bit low getting up to Refrigerator Gap

[flyfisher]

Great photo Travis, Yes I know where you are coming from, and the Rangie wouldn't be my first choice for out there either.

Group from LROCT ( landrover owners club of tas) have just left for a 3 week trip to Birdsville and the Simpson but all their vehicles are diesel and mine doesn't have nearly the range between fuel stops.

One Troopy holds 280 litres. Mine holds 100 litres and on those roads wouldn't do better than 500k.

Never mind. Those old Cruisers are highly prized if in good shape. Enjoy.

John

[sthughes]

Mine holds 100 litres and on those roads wouldn't do better than 500k.

But a Rangie would be stopped by an electrical fault before then anyway would it?

[ferozious]

One Troopy holds 280 litres. Mine holds 100 litres and on those roads wouldn't do better than 500k.
John

On that topic, what would you recommend as the minimum fuel range required for a "go anywhere" vehicle in the Aussie outback?

[neilmny]

Your going to need long range fuel tanks for go anywhere outback travel.
The greater the range the better .... maybe 800 to 1000 km.

[Travis22]

No guesses for the above picture location? Hint, its in WA.

Avitar, personally not a huge fan of the XV, and its 'smart' engine on/off technology to try and save fuel. Go the Forester.

John, my old girl has 195L on board without any jerry cans. I have fabricated provisions to store / mount 4 jerry cans when needed (another 80L). But generally speaking with the ute, storage and space is never an issue. I could easily stick 500L in the tray if i was crazy enough.

3 weeks from Tas to the Simpson is cutting it fine. Certainly doable tho and i wouldnt say no 280L to do a standard Simpson crossing is overkill tho, and asking to break something if your time poor and in a hurry.

Ferozious, IMO to 'go anywhere' in Australia, realistically you need around 200L on board minimum. However, times are certainly changing and the modern common rail diesels are resetting the bar in terms of fuel economy, however i would argue that the vehicles themselves are less reliable and certainly no where near as user serviceable as the older vehicles. That said tho, load them up with heaps of weight, and drive them in hard terrain and their economy very quickly goes out the window. If traveling in a group, then this is less of an issue, add satellite phones and endless funds even moreso but if traveling solo as we do most of the time one needs to be 110% confident in their vehicle and in their ability to fix anything that might come up. The 40 Series Landcruisers might be just about the oldest the harshest and roughest vehicles out there but IMO they are the toughest!

I doubt there are many people in the world that can say they have had the publican of the Birdsville Pub come out and take a photograph of their vehicle, but we can

The longest and most remote iconic track in Australia is the CSR. Call it 2000km to keep it simple. One needs to be able to do at least 1000km to reach the fuel dump point in the middle. But should you need to turn around and go back, one definitely needs to be able to deal with these sorts of contingency plans. The Madigan line across the Simpson is the other famously tough and remote trip one could do however it is becoming more and more popular and this it is nowhere near as difficult as it used to be. For it, one really should be carrying at least 300L of fuel.

Travis.

[flyfisher]

But a Rangie would be stopped by an electrical fault before then anyway would it?

Hi StH, last electrical fault was on the Lake Spicer trip. (21-11-2010) No probs since.

John

[Taurë-rana]

ps, anyone guess the location, great hiking around there and up to the top.

Mt Augustus? One place i haven't been yet. Not sure that I would want a newer vehicle to do the travelling around Aus that I did 20 years ago - we had a diesel Troopy with an after market turbo,84 model I think, and with a Gregory's manual in case anything went wrong (and not much did), split rim wheels so we could repair a puncture on the side of the road, long range fuel tanks, live suspension, two batteries etc there wasn't really anywhere we weren't game to take it. It was home for two and a half years and I cried when we sold it.

New vehicles are getting way too dependent on computers to take bush - there was an accident here recently because the throttles now have a computer connected somehow, and the computer malfunctioned so the vehicle wouldn't stop with both the woman's feet on the brake pedal pushing as hard as she could. Straight through an intersection. Very scary!

[Travis22]

Taurë-rana, spot on. That is Mt Augustus. Absolutely beautiful place in the middle of nowhere.

Do you have any photos from your travels in your old Troopie, id love to see them. 1984 hey, did you have any luxuries such as power steering, the 5spd or front end disc brakes?

My old girl is older then me by a few years. Its was made in 1978. None of the above mentioned luxuries

Travis.

[Taurë-rana]

No power steering! Think it had disc brakes and it had a Fairy (however you spell it) overdrive that had a tendency to rattle apart, and the aftermarket turbo which made it good on the highways. Lots and lots of great slides but none on computer. We got a Hilux after that as we had a couple of babies, and that was a good vehicle too but wouldn't have been as good to travel in. Was very good for Tassie 4WDriving. Then we got an 80 Series Cruiser which I hated.

[neilmny]

We went around Oz in 1978 in a 1977 FJ40 cruiser we used to get at best 17 miles to the gallon (petrol) which is around 16.6 litres per 100 km. It never missed a beat. Back then fuel in Melbourne was 19c per litre and the highest priced fuel we saw was at Barry Caves 33c per litre. Sounds cheap but prices are all relative.
The old cruisers were really made to last but in those days the outback folk couldn't see past the old 4 cyl. Landrovers.

[southbank]

Suzuki Grand Vitara or a Brumby

[Strider]

But a Rangie would be stopped by an electrical fault before then anyway would it?

That's if the oil leaks don't kill it first!

[Hallu]

Anybody here ever watched "Pat Callinan's 4x4 adventures" ? I can't even stand 5 min of this thing O_o

[Travis22]

Hallu, Pats a really really top bloke.

Im not really into his new tv series works but i have nothing against him, again having met him and spent some time with him i have to say he is a genuinely good bloke who is living the dream, I take my hat off to him.

He has, and knows his target audience and i dont see why he would change anything at this point in his carrier.

.............

Neilmny, thanks for sharing a little of your history. I love hearing about people using this classic old 4x4's back in the day, when they were new! Id ask the same question of you Any chance you have any old photographs of you guys with the old cruiser back in the day?

I get about 15-16L per 100km in my old girl provided i stick to a maximum of 80km/h speed. If i stay between 50-80, usually more like 60-70 on most 'outback' tracks, then i do a little better. Try and push the old girl out to 90+km/h and you can watch the fuel gauge go down!

............

Taurë-rana, your old Landcruiser sounded like the bee's knees! Id love a Fairey Overdrive however sadly parts for them havent been manufactured for 20years. There are still quite a few out there and they do turn up every now and again however it is more common these days to 'modify' the old 40 Series Landcruisers with 60 Series parts. ie. Power Steering, 5 Speed transmission, Disc brakes. It is much much cheaper to go that route then to fine the very rare genuine examples from a 40 Series as they were very limited and only available during their final year of production in 1984. I think there will come a time in my life that i will someday take my old girl off the road and do these things but im always torn between keeping things as original as possible and making things more comfortable for myself. I still find myself wanting to do it as tho's did 'back then' and wont be changing anything any time soon.

Travis.

[neilmny]

I'll indulge myself a little here and post a couple for you Travis.
These are taken off 35mm slides a couple of years ago, not the best but mean a lot to us .
We were around 22 then were both nudging 59 now.

Karumba sitting on a rock as the sun sets

Mount Isa at the local lake - can't remember the name

[Hallu]

Hallu, Pats a really really top bloke.

Im not really into his new tv series works but i have nothing against him, again having met him and spent some time with him i have to say he is a genuinely good bloke who is living the dream, I take my hat off to him.

He has, and knows his target audience and i dont see why he would change anything at this point in his carrier.

Nothing against the guy, don't know him, but the show looks like a 40 min TV commercial, with ridiculous music and over zealous host, something out of a shopping channel.