are bushwalking clubs doing enough for new starters?

[ILUVSWTAS]

My question is, is there anyone out there catering for newcomers who want to do more extreme/remote/challenging walks, more frequently than the walking clubs offer? It seems to be very difficult to break into groups that do this stuff, as they're usually very close knit and often reluctant to let new people in. I do like walking solo, but there's some walks here that it's either not feasible or not sensible to do so...

Get active on this site, make yourself known.
Get out there and walk more, and you will meet people. All the folk I walk with i've met through this site doing the above.

It does take time though.

[rock monkey]

Cheers.. not so patient either ..!

[rock monkey]

Yup.. I'm known to be slightly crazy.. but I get bored with easy or super slow..

[wayno]

there are various groups to be found on meetup.com you might find something there , like this one
http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Young-H ... tup-Group/

[rock monkey]

Looks good.. I'll have to see if there's one in Tassie

[wayno]

you could also try starting your own group and attract like minded people...

[rock monkey]

Yeah, I just don't know where to start.. there's not too many people like me out there, and the ones I do know have their own well established groups.. but if I can't find anything I'll do that and see where I get

[ILUVSWTAS]

Here's a good place to start Bec

viewforum.php?f=4

[wayno]

snap +1

[rock monkey]

I've only had a glance.. but can't find any of the more extreme walks listed there .. most people don't advertise for those kind of walks

[wayno]

so advertise, you have nothing to loose and everything to gain.... put yourself out there a bit and you may get a response...

[rock monkey]

Hmm, ok.. I'll give it a shot when I get back from next week's walk . Cheers!

[FatCanyoner]

I'm not sure how much these expensive clubs are charging. I'm a member of a university club (although more than half our members are not students). It costs $20 a year for students, and $35 for non students. That covers you with insurance for all trips, plus free access to club gear (which if you do things like canyoning is very lucrative, given the cost of ropes!) I'm buggered if I can see how that is too expensive for anyone. As Tom said, you'll spend more on food and fuel for one walk than this.
Interestingly, while many traditional bushwalking clubs have an ageing demographic (there is a lot of discussion on this elsewhere on the forum) I'm seeing a real resurgence among university clubs. For me, the informal approach is great. You meet likeminded people, get ideas for new places to explore, share tips and skills, etc. We do a good mix of trips -- everything from introductory bushwalks / canyoning / abseiling trips to some stupidly hard walking. Something for everyone. I do walk on my own occasionally (that's how I started out), but personally I love walking with other people. I find I usually walk further and harder -- not to mention am more likely to set off in foul weather -- when I'm doing it with others. These challenging trips that I might otherwise to tempted to pike on are often the most memorable!
My advice, do a bit of research, join a club with a similar demographic, and give it a go. If you haven't done that then it's a bit silly to go badmouthing the walking club model when you've no real experience of it.

[jungle jim]

I sometimes hear people complaining about membership fees, but rarely have sympathy.

If somone drives to the Blue Mountains and back from Sydney, petrol + wear & tear on their car will be $60. And that is just one trip.

If you're serious about bushwalking, ie going more than once a month, the amount you will spend on transport, food &/or gear in a year will be many times the cost of joining a club.

Your costs seem a little steep but I'll accept them. If membership includes return transport to walks then that would appear justifiable, however, if the majority of members use car pooling or public transport then your example is meaningless.

I bushwalk a bit and find it relatively cheap, apart from the initial outlay the cost will vary with walk type/location. If you engage in other activities such as canyoning or rock climbing, the costs would rise and the costs would have to be absorbed somewhere.

If the majority of your activities are in the Blue Mountains it makes sense to decentralise and tap into a potentially huge market, lower new starters costs and increase your survivability odds.

[Bluegum Mic]

I pay $40 a year for the club Im in currently and again that's all insurance etc. I was just the other day looking into clubs in Sydney as we will be moving back at the end of the year and I noticed one of the local clubs to where I live charge over $300 a year for membership. I nearly fell off my chair

[wayno]

in nz some small clubs can charge a fortune, not sure how rules for clubs go in aus but in nz what has happened in some small groups is its easy for a group of new people to come into the club and vote the committee out and take over the club and its assets. so the clubs with decent assets hike the joining price to stop the likelihood of this predatory behaviour. clubs often have their own huts including skifield huts in prime locations. and vehicles...
one club in particular has sizeable investments, and a brand new quarter of a million dollar air conditioned bus specially specced out to sleep in the back. and they only have a few dozen active members....

[corvus]

I don't belong to any BW club however I have no objection to them and believe they may be the way to go for newbies if you can go on a walk as a guest for at least three our four walks b4 joining .

I am very lucky that through this forum I was able to bring together a group of like minded walkers who walk as independents in our Strollers group with an age spread of 25 to 74 and we have done lots of walks that perhaps some may not have tackled on their own .

I believe that ILUVSWTAS did a similar thing down South and that they have been on some very interesting walks perhaps not really suited to some of us older Strollers (wont faze our youngsters) so as mentioned previously check out a club and take it from there.

corvus

[FatCanyoner]

I am very lucky that through this forum I was able to bring together a group of like minded walkers who walk as independents in our Strollers group with an age spread of 25 to 74 and we have done lots of walks that perhaps some may not have tackled on their own.

Yep, a club doesn't have to be a formal organisation. This is exactly how it should work: a simple structure that bring a diverse group of people so they are better able to pursue their interests. The internet really has made it so much easier to discover new people with similar experiences!

[ILUVSWTAS]

I believe that ILUVSWTAS did a similar thing down South and that they have been on some very interesting walks perhaps not really suited to some of us older Strollers (wont faze our youngsters) so as mentioned previously check out a club and take it from there.

corvus

Spot on Corvus. And a healthy Nth VS Sth rivalry has grown....

Send your younguns into the POW and see how they go, then we'll know

[jungle jim]

I pay $40 a year for the club Im in currently and again that's all insurance etc. I was just the other day looking into clubs in Sydney as we will be moving back at the end of the year and I noticed one of the local clubs to where I live charge over $300 a year for membership. I nearly fell off my chair

Thanks Bluegum Mic, good example.

[corvus]

I believe that ILUVSWTAS did a similar thing down South and that they have been on some very interesting walks perhaps not really suited to some of us older Strollers (wont faze our youngsters) so as mentioned previously check out a club and take it from there.

corvus

Spot on Corvus. And a healthy Nth VS Sth rivalry has grown....

Send your younguns into the POW and see how they go, then we'll know

A small problem is tyranny of distance for our employed Strollers as I believe most of the starting points are around 3+ hours from our base and I really cannot speak nor should I for my young mates as our hobby/pastime in my belief should be a really pleasurable pursuit not a major ordeal .
corvus

[ILUVSWTAS]

Ah of course, I forget we do it for pain and not enjoyment, how silly of me.......

[wayno]

thats th thing what people want varies.
newbies often dont want to end up over their heads but some may want to go into the deep end. as time goes on a lot of peopel will look for bigger challenges. then the wheel may turn full circle and they may want to revert back to less demanding.

[tom_brennan]

I sometimes hear people complaining about membership fees, but rarely have sympathy.

If somone drives to the Blue Mountains and back from Sydney, petrol + wear & tear on their car will be $60. And that is just one trip.

If you're serious about bushwalking, ie going more than once a month, the amount you will spend on transport, food &/or gear in a year will be many times the cost of joining a club.

Your costs seem a little steep but I'll accept them. If membership includes return transport to walks then that would appear justifiable, however, if the majority of members use car pooling or public transport then your example is meaningless.

The costs are based on
- club rates of 33c/km (petrol + wear & tear) which in my own experience is pretty accurate
- 100km each way from Sydney to Katoomba - it would be cheaper to say Glenbrook and more expensive to say Kanangra
I agree that most members would try and car pool with at least one other person. And if you are walking around Sydney (Royal NP, Ku-ring-gai Chase NP) then PT is often an option.

Membership does not (normally) include return transport to walks.

My point was simply that the cost of membership of a club is relatively insignificant when considered across the whole of your bushwalking cost for a year. Even by car pooling with (typically) 2 others, petrol/wear & tear for me last year was $20/week, or around $1000 per year. Including airfares (it's expensive to get to the Kimberley), gear and food, I would have spent another $3000 at least.

A $37.50 membership fee is not much compared to the other costs of walking. In my case, < 1%.

Whether it offers you value, is another whole discussion.

[wayno]

the rise of casual events , sites like meetup allow you to join groups without paying annual fees may change peoples thinking about having to pay fees for joining clubs.
if a formal club doesnt seem to offer them much more than a casual club then they may think twice about bothering with any fee. plus with so many outdoor activities tochoose from, more people float amongst different sports and a casual setup suits them more and they get used to doing one off things in groups that arent requiring an anual fee. a lot of sports clubs in a range of sports have experienced falling membership.
when i was a kid through the seventies and eighties , you wanted to play a sport you joined a club and paid an annual or seasonal fee for joining, but today i can go and play that sport without havng to do so. younger people have more exposure to the latter model..

[MartyGwynne]

Hi there my club Strzelecki Bushwalking club does cater a lot for newbies with gear and any amount of info sessions training (map reading navigation cooking etiquette etc) It is just a bit hard to keep them at it as everyone moves on, likes some people dislikes others boring trips too old club members.
Some do not even walk in the club but are active on committees etc. I've been in the club now for well over ten years and still stick with it but only do one or two trips a year due to social reasons.
I still learn good stuff from some of the older members (such as food drying).
I now just pick and choose when I turn up to meetings or walks and sometimes I put on walks (usually extended hard rated ones - I've had a few 'interesting' people turn up to these walks and sometimes have had to babysit them through the whole trip - They enjoy it mostly though so that makes it worth while for me.
Thats just my 2bobs worth.
Marty.

[jungle jim]

A $37.50 membership fee is not much compared to the other costs of walking. In my case, < 1%.

That fee is reasonable compared to other Sydney Clubs. SUBW I overlooked due to its University ties but it is open to everyone and has reasonable membership costs.

However, an example already for $300 and another where a club charges more for prospective members with declining quarterly payments and greatly reduced membership fees. Don't understand that one.

[tom_brennan]

That fee is reasonable compared to other Sydney Clubs. SUBW I overlooked due to its University ties but it is open to everyone and has reasonable membership costs.

However, an example already for $300 and another where a club charges more for prospective members with declining quarterly payments and greatly reduced membership fees. Don't understand that one.

Interesting. All of the clubs I'm aware of, which covers the major clubs in Sydney and surrounds, charge between $25 and $40 pa (may be a bit more or less for prospective membership).

Includes: SBW, Bush Club, CMW, SPAN, Sutherland BC, Springwood BC, Upper Blue Mountains BC, Yarrawood, SUBW, Bankstown BC, BWOC

[bauplenut]

Clubs do have operating costs that obviously need to be covered. Insurance - public liability and personal accident insurance, website, sat phone, PLBs, meeting room fee, state and national body affiliation fee, are the basics. Depending on which state, the club probably needs to be an incorporated body in accordance with state law. A small club will need to charge more than a club with large membership to meet these operating costs.

As for doing more or encouraging newbies or visitors, I would be wary of branding all clubs as the same based upon poor experience at one club. Our club, a lot of enquiries we get from potential new starters they are looking for easy track walking, not hard core bush walking.

Our club will put on unscheduled introductory walks several times each year when needed aimed at visitors or newbies. But frequency depends on availability of a walk leader on off weekends - we do have other commitments in life too. And locations for introductory easier walks are very limited. Our normal walks, there is very little track walking available in Nth Qld, so just about all walks are off-track in rugged terrain - so if we think the visitor, or even member, is not suited to the walk we will say so - from a safety view we have a responsibility to so. We have been caught out with visitors claiming to be fit and experienced and discovering during the walk that their claims are inaccurate, resulting in safety issues and even unplanned overnight stop out on one occasion. So our pre-walk briefing is full on and does discourage newbies at times, but we have a responsibility to tell them it may not be easy, depending on their fitness. Better than four hours into the walk in remote rugged terrain and discovering they can't cope or are so fatigued they become unsafe. New starters we do advise of training that is suited to meet our type of bush walking. So I think we are "doing enough for new starters" and I dare say most clubs do.

Nationally I understand there is declining and or ageing bush walking club membership (recognised at Bushwalking Australia AGM two years or so ago). But this is happening in several recreational areas too - golf comes to mind. Maybe fixed club membership is not attractive to younger generation -but when clubs have fixed operating costs, how else do clubs survive ? Casual walk fees will likely not cover fixed operating costs. But, $40 or thereabouts (most clubs similar) per year is bugger all ! Less than a carton of beer.

As for the standard visitor three walk policy that most or all clubs have then must join the club, that is due to insurance I understand.

[wayno]

i dont think nz clubs need insurance. the govt accident compensation corp covers people for recreational accidents.
clubs often have the three walks rule before being able to join the club, I think it's as much designed to give the club a chance to find out the personality of the person to make sure they arent too anti social in their behaviour before letting them into the club...