swimming with packs, river crossings - share your tips etc.

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Hi all,


I'd like to collate a river crossing and pack swim knowledge resource. I consider myself a poor swimmer (in reality I may not be all that bad, but I'm certainly not much good and don't feel that confident), and always feel a bit nervous about river crossings and swimming with packs, and very nervous if there is a strong current. I'm short and small so depth of the water and current strength is more of an issue for me than for others.

I enjoy solo, remote and off track walking, so sooner or later there will be a wide river to cross or a deep lagoon to swim...
Techniques/tips relevant to groups are welcome too.
Yes, upgrading my swimming skills is part of the plan, but I'm also after anything related to bush-specific knowledge. Fire away, please - anything and everything.

some questions I can already think of:
- reading the river and selecting a crossing point (particularly if there is no ford)
- wading and 'walking in water' techniques (e.g. unclipping the backpack straps)
- what to do if it gets too deep part way through
- on a recent wading/swimming with packs trip, we had an unexpected addition to the party: a red bellied black snake which was on a swim in the river. Somehow we managed to stay out of its path, but what is a good way of managing this kind of scenario?
- obviously won't be going anywhere near crocodiles...
- ???


thank you

[walkerchris77]

Mmmmm not meaning to sound smart but if you cant swim then dont try and cross a river. With the added weight from your pack ect one slip on a rock and u could be in trouble.
People have had their packs swept away crossing rivers.

Sure if u can see the bottom and its still or slow then have a go but id be careful if your not a good swimmer and your on your own.
You also have to think about the weather, temperature wind chill etc. If everything in your pack gets wet what will u do nothing worse than soggy toilet paper and wet clothes and down sleeping bag.

Stay safe.

[MrWalker]

I'm a bit overcautious on river crossings now. I was on a walk by myself and had to cross a river that was only knee deep for most of the way. But it went a bit over my knees towards the end and when my foot slipped on a rock, my buoyancy meant I could not get a grip on the bottom. The current was enough to wash me off the ford so I swam the rest of the way, which was not trivial while wearing a pack.
Fortunately my clothes in the pack stayed dry, since I needed a complete change and was about 10km from the nearest road and icy cold.

If you are not a confident swimmer then avoid any crossing where the current might cause you to lose your footing, or it's too deep to see where you are putting your feet.

[gayet]

River crossings are a good place to use walking poles. If you carry them, use them. They are a great stabiliser and can tell you of drops without having to step into them. If you don't use/carry them, select a sufficiently long and strong branch to use instead. Be prepared to throw them away if you lose footing though

[DarrenM]

Using a decent size stick as a bracing aid can help, the same way a kayak paddle works in swift water rescue etc. Don't use ropes unless you know exactly what you are doing with them. There are some good tips if you get onto some of the Alaskan and NZ sites. I'm a reasonable swimmer and generally aren't too concerned with flooded rivers but my wife is not so great with them and in the past I've detoured by kilometres to cross safely with her.

If it's deep use the pack as buoyancy in front of you and always take note of what's downstream as much as where you are crossing before you enter. If you are washed down, go feet first but keep your feet up high so you don't get wedged under hidden tree limbs or rocks. It may pay you to look at some of the swift water rescue techniques for swimming rapids as they work, and at least you will have some confidence (at least in a theory way) if things go pear shaped.

http://www.alaskacenters.gov/river-crossing.cfm

http://www.thehikinglife.com/skills/river-crossings/

http://www.mountainsafety.org.nz/assets ... 20safety(1).pdf

[MickyB]

Don't use ropes unless you know exactly what you are doing with them

I have never used ropes for river crossings (usually a stick or walking poles if needed) but have read else where not to use it. What are the reasons for this? Thanks.

[DarrenM]

People have tied ropes around their waist and attached it to a tree thinking if they fall, it will save them from getting washed away. It can get snagged and you may drown if you lose your footing. As a kid, I remember getting stuck on the upstream side of a handline setup to stop us going over a small waterfall if we missed the last takeout point. Some of us managed to get a foot hold but others ended up bent in half with the force of the water before a helping hand stepped in.

If you can use an arc method from a tree on a bend and don't tie yourself in, and simply hold the rope for balance then I'd consider it feasible. I learnt a small amount of river safety on a course which was more about mechanical advantage setups for rescue, but the practical techniques on the river were great and I still think about the options at fast or flooded crossings.

Basically ropes can kill you quickly whether you are mountaineering, climbing/canyoning or using them for river work if you don't learn a few basic skills.

[Overlandman]

I have heard of people using heavy duty plastic pack liners, removing the liner from inside the pack, & putting the whole pack inside the pack liner, then double tieing the pack liner with a couple of cable ties. With no holes the pack will float well
Regards Overlandman

[MickyB]

People have tied ropes around their waist and attached it to a tree thinking if they fall, it will save them from getting washed away. It can get snagged and you may drown if you lose your footing. As a kid, I remember getting stuck on the upstream side of a handline setup to stop us going over a small waterfall if we missed the last takeout point. Some of us managed to get a foot hold but others ended up bent in half with the force of the water before a helping hand stepped in.

If you can use an arc method from a tree on a bend and don't tie yourself in, and simply hold the rope for balance then I'd consider it feasible. I learnt a small amount of river safety on a course which was more about mechanical advantage setups for rescue, but the practical techniques on the river were great and I still think about the options at fast or flooded crossings.

Basically ropes can kill you quickly whether you are mountaineering, climbing/canyoning or using them for river work if you don't learn a few basic skills.

Thanks Darren. That makes sense. I didn't think of the rope around the waist. I thought what I read was referring to a rope around a tree and HOLDING the rope for balance. That's why I couldn't work out why it was considered dangerous.

[ofuros]

Double bag your gear....
Poles or use a strong stick bankside....
Feel your way across side on to the current....
Undo your backpacks chest & hip belt buckle while your crossing....
Before wading across, look downstream for safe exit or two...just in case you do go in.
If it's too high or strong, just say no & wait it out or find a safer crossing ...your life may depend on that decision. Ditto'ing what NNW just posted.

[north-north-west]

And don't be afraid to make the hard decision of turning around or waiting for the water to drop.

[wayno]

I use a commercial dry bag in my pack and check it for holes and patch them for each trip.
swimming with a pack is pretty hard, your footwear weighs your feet down and its hard to keep them high in the water, they just tend to sink... if you have to swim and you know you're likely to , take your footwear off. put your pack in front of you...
if you fall off your feet while crossing, you should be facing feet first downstream on your back. easier said than done, I"ve ended up face down with my pack pushing me down but managed to roll over and ended up going backwards downriver with no idea what was coming...

[Gusto]

Some general tips.

1) Undo all your buckles. If you trip over or get caught on something, the last thing you want is to be trapped by your pack. If you do get stuck, don't be afraid to ditch the pack. You're better off alive and having to walk down stream to collect your pack then be dead.

2) Use walking poles. preferably on the upstream side so you lean uptream.

3) Take your time, look up and down several hundred meters if need be. Sometimes you may find a better spot.

4) If swimming then keep your feet on the down stream edge. This is standard practice for all moving water.

5) Keep your shoes on. (Although I personally would prefer runners to walking boots if I had a choice, so consider changing shoes if it's an option)

6) If you don't want to wear your pack. Then swim/wade accross without pack. Attach a rope to a tree. Then throw the rope back to your friend (or wade back). Tie it to your pack, then throw your pack in the river. Either swim along side it, or don't worry about it. Water pressure should cause it to move near the other bank. Hop out and drag on the rope.


Also, Floating shouldn't be a problem as your pack will be far more buoyant than you will be. Packliners etc. will improve the duration of it's buoyancy.

[tom_brennan]

Big difference between crossings with little/no current, and crossing flowing water. We do bushwalks/canyons all the time where you are expected to swim with pack.

For little/no current water, you can either:
1) throw your whole pack in a waterproof bag (eg large tough pack liner) and swim; (see end of page http://ozultimate.com/tom/bushwalking/2 ... hotos4.htm); or more commonly
2) do as you do when canyoning, and waterproof the inside of your pack (put everything in a drybag). You can then do up the buckles and swim with the pack on your back (eg http://ozultimate.com/canyoning/reports ... photos.htm). It acts as a floatie!

Obviously if there's a decent current then your tactics may need to be quite different.

[phan_TOM]

My first tip would be if you are unsure at all then don't risk it. I did some swift water rescue training with the VRA a few years ago and while it was heaps of fun and I learned a lot the main thing that was reinforced was you only go in the water as an absolute last resort, and that was for the trained rescuers! Even fairly shallow water that isn't moving particularly fast has a huge amount of energy behind it and if you get snagged in/under a tree or get your foot jammed under a rock then you have about as long to live as you can hold your breath. Sounds harsh but it's dangerous even for the pro's and as you admit to being a poor swimmer I would be very careful. Plenty of people do it for fun though so maybe you could go and learn some canyoning, kayaking, rafting or swift water rescue to build up some skills.

As an example here's a frame taken from a video I made about SWR. We rigged up a piece of poly between two trees on either side of the creek to simulate a tree branch and then took turns floating into it and then trying to get over. In the feet first position even the fittest guys with good upper body strength had major trouble and went under more times than they could go over. Everyone else had no chance... The water was only grade 1 rapid and less than 1m deep & in reality If there were smaller branches sticking down from the trunk into the water it would be game over...

Some general tips.

1) Undo all your buckles. If you trip over or get caught on something, the last thing you want is to be trapped by your pack. If you do get stuck, don't be afraid to ditch the pack. You're better off alive and having to walk down stream to collect your pack then be dead.

2) Use walking poles. preferably on the upstream side so you lean uptream.

3) Take your time, look up and down several hundred meters if need be. Sometimes you may find a better spot...
...
5) Keep your shoes on. (Although I personally would prefer runners to walking boots if I had a choice, so consider changing shoes if it's an option)

Good tips, it's preferable to cross facing upstream leaning forward on a solid pole or stick. The tripod shape formed is much more stable than facing side on and it's also easier to spot any missiles that are coming downstream like tree branches etc the difference is stark once you've tried both.

4) If swimming then keep your feet on the down stream edge. This is standard practice for all moving water.

Yes but only if the path looks clear. If you do see a tree trunk or other obstacle it's best to swing around head first into the offensive swimming position and attack it, swimming hard and using your momentum to get over the top. With the example above everyone got over safely when doing it this way.

Feet first is preferred if it looks clear ahead and as a point of interest if/when you spot a likely point to exit you face your feet toward the opposite bank that you want to go, it may seem counter-intuitive but it works.

[SteveJ]

carry a packraft.

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Thank you for all the contributions