Snake bites

[slparker]

Wait just to clarify this. We are ok with the pressure bandage. Now if no help is available or can be called for whatever reason, is it best to wait a few days as suggested or walk out immediately? (Assuming no other way of reaching the outside world etc)

If you want to die quickly walk out immediately. If you want the best chance of survival, apply the pressure bandage and wait.
IF you've told no-one where you're going, IF you have no water, IF you have no shelter - than you'll have to weigh up yourself the odds of dying by snakebite, thirst or exposure.

If you don't have a pressure bandage you can apply any constrictive pressure over the skin (ie t-shirt etc- of course none of these are as effective as a conformable elastic bandage) and then wait for help.

50% of snakebites are 'dry' bites (ie no toxin is injected) so you may be lucky if you decide to walk out soon after being bitten; however, one of things that is known to kill victims of Australian snakebite envenomation is muscular movement after a bite.

[perfectlydark]

Cheers. So it is ok to wait for a bit, just make sure you have that bandage on! (Or a sharp knife gps!)

[peregrinator]

If you like taking chances, then don't buy a proper compression bandage and don't buy a PLB.

[walkon]

The first aid lady actually had two copies of articles where a compression bandage of sorts had been used then the walker sat down, waited and lived. One had hikers walk up and find them after a couple of hours the other was found the next day, both lived!

When I was bitten years ago, I applied a compression bandage and walked slowly up to the house. It hurt like hell and got worse, so from experience the snake bite would be compressed and then I'd sit down.

Each to their own but good luck if you get bitten. It sure got the staff at the hospital moving when we told them what happened.

[GPSGuided]

Uncontrolled anecdotal case report is not meaningful. But it does goes to show how much it's a throw of dice.

[Walking_addict]

Cheers. So it is ok to wait for a bit, just make sure you have that bandage on! (Or a sharp knife gps!)

Back a page or so in this post viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10063&start=120#p211351
I wrote to wait 3 days if possible, reasons there in the post in full context.

[GPSGuided]

Or a sharp knife gps!

Ummm... Keep that knife sharpened and an alcohol wipe on its side.

[dashandsaph]

Hi,

I saw this venom pump on the Sawyer website. Any comments on how this fits with current best practice for snakebite? There is an explanatory video which doesn't mention compression bandaging and also does not appear to be aware of the role of the lymphatic system in circulating the venom.

http://sawyer.com/products/extractor-pump-kit/

[Strider]

That kit is designed for north American snakebites

[Gadgetgeek]

the sawyer and other suction type kits have been debunked by independent study. Not only do they not remove much if any venom, the suction causes tissue damage which then lengthens the healing time. The reason why it works anecdotally is that it is believed that rattle snakes may dry bite animals that are too large to be food (like us) and only envenomate as a last response. I don't know how true that is, although logically it makes sense.
Either way, don't bother with a sawyer, get the compression bandage.

[slparker]

That kit is designed for north American snakebites

True that.

By all means buy the sawyer snake bite kit for Australian use. There's this thing called the Darwin Awards, you'd be sure to win one.

[Overlandman]

Not a good outcome as he didnt seek medical attention The snake would of been angry as well

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-14/m ... ds/5812486

A man has died after being bitten by a snake in West Australia's remote Goldfields region.

Police said the 41-year-old man was bitten while trying to pick up what was believed to be a western brown snake in Laverton last Wednesday.

He didn't seek any medical attention despite other people being in the area and trying to assure him that he needed medical attention.
Heath Soutar, Laverton police

The officer in charge of Laverton police station, Senior Sergeant Heath Soutar, said the man was bitten multiple times including on his hand and arm.

"He came across the snake which was near the shire offices in the main area of town," he said.

"Another person was attempting to kill the snake and the man that was bitten intervened, picked up the snake and as a result of picking it up was bitten two to three times."

Senior Sergeant Soutar said the man did not seek any medical attention after being bitten.

"He didn't seek any medical attention despite other people being in the area and trying to assure him that he needed medical attention," he said.

"He ended up going to a campsite very close to town and ended up collapsing approximately half an hour to 45 minutes later."

Police and an ambulance crew went to the site where the man had collapsed and performed first aid.

He was taken to the Laverton hospital where he was later declared dead.

The snake was captured and killed.
Snake in police freezer pending identification

Senior Sergeant Soutar said experts who had viewed pictures believed it was a western brown snake.

"We sent some photos down to a specialist in Perth and he believes it is a western brown," he said.
Snake bite facts:

There are about 3,000 snake bites per year in Australia
On average, one or two will prove fatal
The brown snake is responsible for about half of all snake bite deaths
The remainder are mostly from tiger snake, taipan and death adder
Some deaths are sudden, however it is uncommon to die within four hours of a snake bite.


Source: University of Sydney

"There's different kinds of western browns all through the area and his preliminary identification is that.

"The snake, which we do have here in the freezer at the police station, we're going to send down to Perth and they're going to do a formal identification.

"They do a scale count and other tests and then they'll be able to determine for the coroner exactly what type of snake it was."

The deceased man came from the Indigenous community of Blackstone near Warburton.

Two children have also been bitten by snakes in WA's Wheatbelt in recent days.

Yesterday a three-year-old boy was bitten in Dandaragan and flown to Perth for treatment.

A six year old was bitten in Moora on Sunday.

Both children have since been discharged from hospital.

The last reported death from a snake bite in WA was in 2010.

[walkon]

I wonder the reasons for Brown snakes causing half the deaths; are that they live in more remote areas, there's twice as many biomass wise or their habitat/movement is more prone to cross over with humans. I suppose the fang placement in the head and venom delivery on bite is a factor as well, as far as I knew there were other snakes more venomous.

[DaveNoble]

I wonder the reasons for Brown snakes causing half the deaths; are that they live in more remote areas, there's twice as many biomass wise or their habitat/movement is more prone to cross over with humans. I suppose the fang placement in the head and venom delivery on bite is a factor as well, as far as I knew there were other snakes more venomous.

I was at a talk by a snake expert (at a school talk) - and he said that Brown Snake numbers have increased in recent years because their main predator - Red Belly Black Snakes have been reduced in numbers (due to human actions). I am not sure how accurate this information is - but it is food for thought.

Brown Snakes certainly seem quite aggressive when I have encountered them - and seem to strike first and ask questions later.

Dave

[neilmny]

Crikey don't get bitten the cure is pretty ugly....http://www.toxinology.com/generic_stati ... venom.html

[walk2wineries]

Well, the initial work on this was done decades ago, long before fancy bandages, and incidentally immobilisation of the affected limb is at least as important. It is certainly true that some snakes particularly browns, often scratch the skin rather than puncture and I've seen a couple of sick people and buggered if I can see a bite even when a witness or patient can indicate which finger/foot. I carry a couple of bandages, keep spares in the CAR and try to persuade anyone with whom I'm walking to carry at least one - between us we should then have enough! SLING for the arm, splint leg.
Absolutely true that other snakes and in particular rattlesnakes are different - inject large volumes of venom that causes a lot of local damage, so some USA people go for cut-and-suck (and there are kits for it) and that's where confusion arises. Don't go on symptoms - see the Death of an Idiot this week in WA. Or rather, pay attention to symptoms, but absence of symptoms isn't helpful. There was a hope that the POC (point of care) machines which GPs sometimes use to monitor anticlotting medication would be useful & perhaps avoid transfer to centres with full laboratory facilities but for some reason they aren't reliable for snakebite. Pity. Absolutely right, keep bandages in place until initial tests, cutting away the bit where the bite is - so DO NOT WASH THE SKIN its the best place to detect venom.

[corvus]

In Tassie all Anti Venene works for our wee beasties ,last person I heard of non fatal was a very embarrassed Bulldozer Driver who got bitten in the web of his hand by a White Lipped Snake (whip snake) he survived ,last known death from the 4th most deadly Venomous Snake in the world ( I believe) Beautiful Tassie Tiger was 40 years ago ( young lady got bit on the bum) so failed to mention it (so the saga goes).
Imagine Godzilla and you ? how big is the Snake ? and who is most afraid ??
Snakes are an essential creature on our Planet and keep the rodent population in check I believe.
corvus

[walkon]

Alright, I take it back about the Brown snakes venom, they have the second most potent venom in the world. Also they don't mind living around humans, more mice etc. When they strike they strike often and the puncture marks are hard to see, which might explain why some people don't get treatment till its too late.
Tiger bites are easily visible have swelling/bruising and PAIN which I can attest to. Easily diagnosed.
Before antivenom 10% of brown snake bites were fatal whereas 50% Tiger bites were fatal.

W2w you are right, all the medicos were happy I didn't wash the bites. They quickly confirmed my call that it was a Tiger bite from the venom on my skin.

Corvus the only good snake is one that isn't near me personally I don't mind them. I just like them a little bit further away since the bite. They are fascinating creatures for sure

[philm]

Brown snakes tend to be more aggressive and strike first if they feel threatened - experience with encourtering tigers is they tend to be timid and retreat first - only problem is if you were to step on one by mistake!

In terms of treatment early application of a compression bandage to wound site is critical and then using a compression bandage from fingers or toes upwards coving the length of the arm or leg. Use of setopress bandages indicate when the correct amount of pressure is used due to their design so this is a good option.

The patient should then remain still and you should splint the leg or strap the arm to the side of the body to restrict any movement.

In the case of a bite to the arm ensure you bandage and immobilise the thumb and the fingers to restict movement.

Without movement it is possible to survive for quite a long time - which may be required if you are remote without any communications.