Are you experienced?

[Earwig]

I’ve read numerous threads here about walkers being rescued and comment being made about the ‘experience’ (or lack of) of the lost wanderers, and the related question of self-rescue versus pushing the button to start a police-led rescue. So, what boxes do I need to tick to be labelled an ‘experienced bushwalker’? So far, I can read track notes and can stuff seven muesli bars into my pockets. What else do I need to do?

[Tortoise]

Hmm, interesting question, Earwig. I expect there'll be nearly as many answers as there are folk around here, with some overlap.

My initial thoughts are that it depends on the context, but I would tend towards thousands of hours walking in a wide range of terrains and conditions.

One could do say 20 day walks and have covered 400km, but always following the leader and not gaining experience that would be useful if something goes wrong, or to prevent it from going wrong in the first place. Or one could gain a fair bit of experience if one is actively learning to navigate off track, deal with creek crossings, benightedness, injuries etc etc, in the same kind of time frame.

Somebody can be an experienced day walker, but inexperienced in overnighters.

Somebody can be be very experienced in tropical or desert country, and may or may not be able to transfer/gain knowledge & skills for alpine conditions - and vice versa.

So I tend to think in terms of the domain/s of their experience.

E.g I'd consider myself an experienced walker in some respects, but have only wiggled my toes in the water of off-track Tassie wilderness. There I consider myself a novice with some useful background.

[GPSGuided]

I don't think PLB activation needs to be linked to the level of experience. It's more a decision on whether one thinks one can make it out without assistance.

Otherwise, I think "experienced" means that one is competent at responding to challenges, going from physical fitness, knowledge of the land and knowing how to avoid and extricate from dangers. As such, one's experience will also be linked to the particular geographic region. 1000s of hours in NSW bush may mean little when it comes to NZ or in Nth America or Africa.

[jford]

Experience comes not just from 'skills' but from practical use of them. It's very easy to say you can use map and compass, but can you use them in challenging conditions under pressure? In the dark? In a blizzard? On steep terrain? In featureless landscape?

There's a section in 'Mountaineering- Freedom of the Hills' about this. Inexperienced people tend to compound their errors by not wanting to appear inexperienced. Clear judgement is the first thing to be lost. I'll have to dig out the book to find that bit again.

[Earwig]

I don't think PLB activation needs to be linked to the level of experience. It's more a decision on whether one thinks one can make it out without assistance.

I think PLB activation is related. We will all get into @#$%. Experience means you are less likely to (experience helps you to avoid it) and can withstand deeper amounts before requiring assistance (experience helps you self-rescue).

[GPSGuided]

I think PLB activation is related. We will all get into @#$%. Experience means you are less likely to (experience helps you to avoid it) and can withstand deeper amounts before requiring assistance (experience helps you self-rescue).

I think I was unclear earlier and we are on the same track. In reference to earlier comments, I meant to say that the timing of PLB activation need not be correlated to one's experience. It's activated whenever one senses dire risks that can't be mitigated, that's all. Effectively it's a mayday call.

[Earwig]

I’m sure we are on the same track GPSguided. There was an article this week in my local paper about a group being rescued from a local park (Cathedral Range State Park in NE Victoria). They were benighted on an off-track hike and called for police assistance. Last week I aslo did my first solo overnight walk for ages - Baw Baw Plateau - and it was great. It got me thinking about how we react to whatever situation we are in, what skills we draw on, and what skills allow us to get home safely - why did I think I could hike alone in an alpine environment. Hence, this thread.

For the record, the skills I reckon I drew on were
- knew my gear and its limitations and suitability for the environment I was entering
- had a vague idea of the terrain and difficulty regarding navigation and just plain moving forward
- had a reasonable idea of my physical ability
I balanced all those things and decided the chance of misadventure was within acceptable limits and so happily hiked off into the distance.

[robertoman]

I would suggest part of being experienced is being aware of the limits to your knowledge and ability. An appreciation of what might happen, and being prepared for it. I would never undertake a solo trip in winter alpine conditions because I know exactly what the outcome would be (not good). However, even during a "safe" trip, accidents can happen to even the most experienced.

[perfectlydark]

I would suggest part of being experienced is being aware of the limits to your knowledge and ability. An appreciation of what might happen, and being prepared for it. I would never undertake a solo trip in winter alpine conditions because I know exactly what the outcome would be (not good). However, even during a "safe" trip, accidents can happen to even the most experienced.

I think that sums up my thoughts. You cant really measure experience in the outdoors in hours imo. Experience tells me to know what im capable of and what to expect, outside of that and the gradual small lessons over time, its all I need to know really. Before I learnt these lessons I pushed myself too hard and on occaision underestimated the terrain. Thankfully despite my walking hours maybe tallying a few hundred, I feel confident that baring disaster I should be ok

[icefest]

I think "experience" is a relative term (relative to the terrain, conditions and your familiarity). Your position on the continuum, varies according your familiarity with the environment.
Ticking boxes is the wrong approach.
As long as you are sufficiently experienced for the conditions and environment you'll be fine.

[north-north-west]

I would suggest part of being experienced is being aware of the limits to your knowledge and ability. An appreciation of what might happen, and being prepared for it. ... However, even during a "safe" trip, accidents can happen to even the most experienced.

Oh yes. I think walking and diving are similar in this respect - quite often the people at most risk are the newbies (who don't know enough to keep themselves out of trouble) and certain highly experienced 'old pros' who allow their confidence to lead them into awkward corners.
As Robert Palmer said " You get away with it, until you don't." And there's no telling exactly when that point of not getting away with it might come - although ignorance and overconfidence do tend to make it more likely to pop up.

[Gadgetgeek]

I think the need to label someone experienced or not comes from our wanting to understand why something happened. Why did this guy succeed, why did this guy fail. Often when it comes to news stories its novices that make bad choices and experienced people that just have bad luck. I feel that's more than a bit unfair. I've got a lot of experience that has come from things going wrong. I've met people who have more time in the woods than I do, but they've never had a severe incident or had to change a plan. Who is more experienced? As my dad often quotes, good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. You never know which decision should have burned you, but some other factor got you through. I'll be a bushwalking guide soon. But only for "tacked and easy untracked areas" you know the difference between easy untracked and hard untracked? sometimes about two steps. So even a piece of paper isn't enough to say I'm experienced.

As for deciding if you should do something I think its important to look at your past experiences and decide how that is going to relate. So instead of saying, "I'm experienced, therefore I will do x" you say, "I've done y which is pretty close to what I expect x to be, and even if I'm not remembering everything 100%I should still have a margin from experiencing a, b, and c. So I will attempt it" Same result, different mindset. But if you constantly re-evaluate the conditions you are in, then you won't find yourself in a situation that is way beyond your ability to adapt, since as more and more things happen that are outside of your experience range, you can step back and keep out of that zone.

[icefest]

I do think that experience is gained faster when one is at the edge of what one is good at. Sadly, this means that trouble is a necessary part of gaining experience.

[Hermione]

I agree with all the above, but do you think that an element of common sense comes into it as well? I love winter walking in Tassie, but I wouldn't choose to do it somewhere (say NZ for example) that required me to be skilled in self arrest techniques or assessment of avalanche risk, because I know I don't have that skill set.

[climberman]

I think the answer has to be the question "have you ever been experienced?"

TBH I think that experienced is many years of a number of trips in a variety of conditions often with other people further up the experience scale. very experienced is lots of trips lots of years, lots of conditions variety of places and overcoming potential stuff ups and helping others learn.

[climberman]

I think the answer has to be the question "have you ever been experienced?"

Or perhaps "Have you ever been to electric ladyland?"

[GPSGuided]

I do think that experience is gained faster when one is at the edge of what one is good at. Sadly, this means that trouble is a necessary part of gaining experience.

Yes and no. If one cares to expand one's field of expertise, then yes, breaking boundaries are needed. Or one can stay within one's comfort zone and gain further experiences through repetition. All goes back to your earlier point, relative to "what".

[drewmac]

Interesting.

As a long time sailor, in sailing we consider ocean miles to be a measure of experience and ability.
There is sometimes no 'escape' as such out in the ocean, you have to manage the situation you have.

I would see that with walking the same applies.
Number of miles, weather conditions, locations, nights, challenges or difficulties that were dealt with.

Independence and self rescue management to me is paramount.
I aim to have enough resources with me to manage what may occur and carry a PLB always now, simply a technology that is available.

At the point I would activate a PLB it has to be dire.
I would consider I should be able to self rescue as such up to the point I am unable to move.

My 2 cents worth.

[highercountry]

Just a thought but I'd suggest that none of us have any great level of experience when compared to a traditional indigenous person.
I'm not sure that many actually exist nowadays but how many of us could survive in the bush unaided by technology and all our modern gear?
Anyone here have the ability to eat, provide shelter, read and traverse the landscape with nothing but our own ingenuity and learning?

[Strider]

Just a thought but I'd suggest that none of us have any great level of experience when compared to a traditional indigenous person.
I'm not sure that many actually exist nowadays but how many of us could survive in the bush unaided by technology and all our modern gear?
Anyone here have the ability to eat, provide shelter, read and traverse the landscape with nothing but our own ingenuity and learning?

I think you are talking about bushcraft, rather than bushwalking. Bushcraft being survival based and bushwalking being leisure based. One can be experienced at either of these, but very few are experienced at both.

[vicrev]

Excuse my ignorance,what or where is Electric Ladyland,is it like Luna Park ? .....Vicrev

[Strider]

Excuse my ignorance,what or where is Electric Ladyland,is it like Luna Park ? .....Vicrev

I thought it was some kind of sex toy metaphor


*EDIT*

Showing my [lack of] age here

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Ladyland

[vicrev]

Spent hours on Ebay trying to buy one....... ....Vicrev

[climberman]

Excuse my ignorance,what or where is Electric Ladyland,is it like Luna Park ? .....Vicrev

I thought it was some kind of sex toy metaphor


*EDIT*

Showing my [lack of] age here

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Ladyland

Original cover and album artwork a little racier than the one in the link!

It is an amazing album.

[DarrenM]

As long as there's more to experience, then no.

[vicrev]

Just a thought but I'd suggest that none of us have any great level of experience when compared to a traditional indigenous person.
I'm not sure that many actually exist nowadays but how many of us could survive in the bush unaided by technology and all our modern gear?
Anyone here have the ability to eat, provide shelter, read and traverse the landscape with nothing but our own ingenuity and learning?

Probably not many........But, having said that,we are an amazing species,adaptable when the need arises, to just about anything... ....Keep smiling ......Vicrev

[Lophophaps]

One of the key parts of experience is time. You need to have a variety of places, conditions and people. This will take a few years. You also need to lead. It’s one thing to be on a trip, but it’s another thing to lead, with all the attendant planning and people skills. Knowing one’s limits is important.

Whilst not crucial, knowing how to navigate away from tracks is important. It’s relatively easy to follow the OLT or the Milford, but can a leader on these and other tracked walks safely visit trackless areas?

[MartyGwynne]

I consider myself to be experienced.
Except of course situations which I have not yet experienced........
It could be all in the way how you say it, or see it.
There is heaps I have yet to experience but hopefully I could cope with it when it greets me if I have read or researched about it or where I am going etc.
Marty