Are we getting soft?

[Happy Pirate]

Following on from several threads on this issue and having read books on the early days of Tassie Exploration and the subsequent introduction of insurance companies, EPIRBs, marked tracks, Sign Post Obsessive Warning Disorder, Gymnasium enrollment, obesity levels etc. I want to ask again:
Are we as walkers and as general society softer than we were 100 years ago? (And are the two groups different?)

My pre-emptive reply: Yes most of us are pussies but no-one will want to admit to this.
Reply:...

[Tortoise]

Well i admit it - guilty as charged!

While i hate the litigation-driven absolve-everyone-from-any-responsibility-of-consequences-of-doing-silly-things approach, and I love the drama and beauty of wild weather and more challenging walks now and then, I do like my comforts these days. The new Neo-Air Xtherm did rather nicely this week, thank you very much.

[photohiker]

We are of our generation, and we mostly bushwalk for a hobby. In the early days of Tassie exploration, people entered the unknown for other reasons than we do, although we share similar interests. Per capita losses in the bush are far less now than then because not only have the risks reduced somewhat with settlement and clearing, trail marking etc, we enter the bush mostly understanding the challenges we are likely to face.

So yes, we are softer. We walk in the footsteps of giants.

That said, I think bushwalkers especially those engaging in multiday walks are harder than much of the general population.

[GPSGuided]

Following on from the other thread, I'll say the following...

1) We can now walk further and faster.
2) More people can now walk the walk... And often further and faster.
3) We take way way more photos.
4) Just as many people injure or kill themselves.

So no, we are not softer but have the almighty power of plastic credit cards, and all that can buy!

[GPSGuided]

BTW, I'll call your bluff on your photographic "expedition".

This, clearly was not Mt Olympus!

[Lindsay]

While our lives are definitely easier than they would have been 100 years ago, we walk for pleasure, not because we must to earn a living like so many of the pioneer bushwalkers. True, we are not cutting timber or droving cattle through the wilderness, but some of us are climbing, canyoning and abseiling as well as walking further and faster. So I don't think that bushwalkers are getting soft, but are pushing the limits in ways that he old timers would see as insane.

[Genesis]

I would have to agree we are getting soft, we have lighter gear which allows us to go further and faster and safety has been increased with the PLB.
I take my hat off to those adventureers of old who battled the elements with canvas, wool and sheer determination!

I do like going off track as much as I can. for the sole purpose of trying to get that feeling that those explorers of old must have felt when trudging into unknown
territory without a track ahead of them and signs directing the masses!

Genesis

[GPSGuided]

But we (or great majority of us) aren't them. Those well known historical figures were explorers and we are not explorers but recreational walkers. There are still a small number of explorers in our community, pushing themselves to the limit like the old time. The correct comparison of us (the great majority of us) are better considered to be evolution of the group in society pictured below. Yes, better gears and facilities have given us more range and flexibility. As a matter of fact, probably a tad harder.

[perfectlydark]

What is considered common gear I guess in some circumstances are a bit "soft". A favorite of mine being sleeping mats. I can see their use in the cold but certainly not an essential thing (but sure is comfortable) for warmer places. I use one in winter myself but feel it to be unneccassry pack space most times as im pretty happy sleeping in lost surfaces as long as I dont have sticks or rocks probing me

[GPSGuided]

What is considered common gear I guess in some circumstances are a bit "soft". A favorite of mine being sleeping mats. I can see their use in the cold but certainly not an essential thing (but sure is comfortable) for warmer places. I use one in winter myself but feel it to be unneccassry pack space most times as im pretty happy sleeping in lost surfaces as long as I dont have sticks or rocks probing me

But a more comfy sleep would allow you to walk longer and harder the next day than past generations.

[perfectlydark]

True although if your an insomniac like me youll get more sleep outdoors anyway (I can easily get a good 8 hours if camping but normally 4 or so at home due to worries stress etc)

[GPSGuided]

True although if your an insomniac like me youll get more sleep outdoors anyway (I can easily get a good 8 hours if camping but normally 4 or so at home due to worries stress etc)

Sounds like you can push it to 12 hours a day. Be a man!

[perfectlydark]

Hehe yeah but then its less time walking... nah I like to walk about 6 hours spend a few setting up camp and stuff then having copious amounts of tea then an early night

[puredingo]

8 HOURS!...I'd give my right arm. I'm a very light sleeper so when out in the scrub if I sleep for more than 2 consecutive hours without waking it's a victory. I reckon I basically doze the night away, sometimes drifting deeper into sleep but never for long.

What's your secret perfectlydark ? and don't say exhaustion because I've ALWAYS got that covered!.

[perfectlydark]

Dont know mate. Just the peace and quiet is what I put it down too. And no crying kids or sneezing wife

[Happy Pirate]

BTW, I'll call your bluff on your photographic "expedition".

This, clearly was not Mt Olympus!

LOL
Not even a tree or hill there in the Wimmera!

[biggbird]

Don't really get the point of topics like this... You can find/make all the old gear if you want to use it! We're always going to push things in the direction of easier/more comfortable, or if not that, then as mentioned a number of times, in the direction of faster/longer. Both will probably seem soft compared to what people used to do, but remember that they did it that way because that was the only way then, not because they wanted to be tough! And besides, haven't we just been getting progressively softer since our species arrived? We used to live in caves and hunt animals for a living...

Anyway, I think this is probably more along the lines of what you were expecting, so I thought someone better say it so as to not disappoint you

[Happy Pirate]

Don't really get the point of topics like this... You can find/make all the old gear if you want to use it! We're always going to push things in the direction of easier/more comfortable, or if not that, then as mentioned a number of times, in the direction of faster/longer. Both will probably seem soft compared to what people used to do, but remember that they did it that way because that was the only way then, not because they wanted to be tough! And besides, haven't we just been getting progressively softer since our species arrived? We used to live in caves and hunt animals for a living...

Anyway, I think this is probably more along the lines of what you were expecting, so I thought someone better say it so as to not disappoint you

Thanks for the reply bigbird
It wasn't the reply I was expecting; I certainly wasn't trying to be a Troll nor a general Nay-Sayer.
My point was a partial response to a few posts on over-cautious signage and the profliguration of insurance requirements and electronic rescue devices. As well as from reading about the heroic (in today's terms) exploration of the country by amateur hikers in times past.

What I guess I was hoping for was for someone to discuss (and GPSGuided has pointed towards this) that 'Bushwalking' and 'exploration' are different fields and that today's explorers have to work harder to find and push barriers than did last century's best, whilst today's bushwalkers are a recreational offshoot (or pale reflection ) of yesterday's explorers.
There is some awesome exploration going on in Antarctica and remote areas of Aus esp. in Blue Mountains canyoning, caving and Tas off trail hiking among others in the name of private recreation rather than national exploration.

But nobody in 19C complained about kids getting too fat
Steve
BTW I most certainly place myself well into the 'Pussie' category

[GPSGuided]

My point was a partial response to a few posts on over-cautious signage and the profliguration of insurance requirements and electronic rescue devices. As well as from reading about the heroic (in today's terms) exploration of the country by amateur hikers in times past.

Ah! If that's your angle, then we can blame the over supply of lawyers in our society and the litigations they induced. By law, we are not even allowed to kill ourselves at will these days... In the name of population reduction and reducing environmental pressure.

BTW I most certainly place myself well into the 'Pussie' category

You can't be serious! I respect any walker who also haul a full load of camera gear. That alone puts said walker in the "Shot of blood to the Head" category!

[ribuck]

... some of us are climbing, canyoning and abseiling as well as walking further and faster. So I don't think that bushwalkers are getting soft, but are pushing the limits in ways that he old timers would see as insane

Lindsay, the old-timers abseiled "classical style", with no harness or descender. Just loop the rope around shoulders and crotch, use your body as the descender, and try not to get friction burns to your genitals. By the time I started abseiling (I'm an old bloke), classical style was dying out. Instead, we improvised a harness with a three-yard length of tape (or a two-yard tape plus some narrower webbing). Now we use manufactured harnesses. Abseiling has definitely gotten softer.

[Happy Pirate]

My point was a partial response to a few posts on over-cautious signage and the profliguration of insurance requirements and electronic rescue devices. As well as from reading about the heroic (in today's terms) exploration of the country by amateur hikers in times past.

Ah! If that's your angle, then we can blame the over supply of lawyers in our society and the litigations they induced. By law, we are not even allowed to kill ourselves at will these days... In the name of population reduction and reducing environmental pressure.

BTW I most certainly place myself well into the 'Pussie' category

You can't be serious! I respect any walker who also haul a full load of camera gear. That alone puts said walker in the "Shot of blood to the Head" category!

Even Dombrovskis in his latter years had other people help carry his gear in. I'm not so luck so these days my walks are designated 'Photo' or 'Non-photo'... depending on how much fun I want to have in the actual approach.
And I keep eyeing off those new-fangled digee thingees.
S

[biggbird]

Don't really get the point of topics like this... You can find/make all the old gear if you want to use it! We're always going to push things in the direction of easier/more comfortable, or if not that, then as mentioned a number of times, in the direction of faster/longer. Both will probably seem soft compared to what people used to do, but remember that they did it that way because that was the only way then, not because they wanted to be tough! And besides, haven't we just been getting progressively softer since our species arrived? We used to live in caves and hunt animals for a living...

Anyway, I think this is probably more along the lines of what you were expecting, so I thought someone better say it so as to not disappoint you

Thanks for the reply bigbird
It wasn't the reply I was expecting; I certainly wasn't trying to be a Troll nor a general Nay-Sayer.
My point was a partial response to a few posts on over-cautious signage and the profliguration of insurance requirements and electronic rescue devices. As well as from reading about the heroic (in today's terms) exploration of the country by amateur hikers in times past.

What I guess I was hoping for was for someone to discuss (and GPSGuided has pointed towards this) that 'Bushwalking' and 'exploration' are different fields and that today's explorers have to work harder to find and push barriers than did last century's best, whilst today's bushwalkers are a recreational offshoot (or pale reflection ) of yesterday's explorers.
There is some awesome exploration going on in Antarctica and remote areas of Aus esp. in Blue Mountains canyoning, caving and Tas off trail hiking among others in the name of private recreation rather than national exploration.

But nobody in 19C complained about kids getting too fat
Steve
BTW I most certainly place myself well into the 'Pussie' category

Apologies if it came off as aggressive, it wasn't meant to be, but it's exam time for me at the moment, so stress levels are high (And yes, I probably shouldn't be on here... Oops!)

I definitely agree with you on the signage aspect of things, I've seen pretty easy tracks with warning signs for "experienced walkers only" etc. But I guess as others have alluded to, this is likely driven by the letigious culture of today, which is a bit sad really. Nobody is allowed to make an honest mistake these days, and nobody is expected to be responsible for themselves either!

As far as the electronic rescue devices go, I have no real issue with them as such, but rather an issue with people who use them as a first resort rather than a last. I think carrying them is very sensible, if the facilities are there, why not use them? I'm sure some of the explorers of yesteryear would have loved to have had that option! But then again, perhaps their stories would have been less heroic had they called for help and been rescued instead of dying in the wilderness

I think you're right though, that today's bushwalking and the exploring of the past are different things, but I guess that's unavoidable, given all the exploring that already has been done, plus the growing overpopulation as well. There just aren't that many unexplored or untouched places to go! We're lucky down here in Tassie that it's better than most places, but still, you've gotta be pretty out there to do something that hasn't been done, at least partially, before. And look at the reception when you try... (You all know the thread I'm talking about).

Anyway, if you're in the Pussie category then I'm sure that probably puts me in whatever is below that (kitten?), I'm no hard man by any stretch of the imagination! But, I guess you can only do what's available to you, so short of becoming an arctic explorer (wouldn't mind one day...), a deep sea diver (no thanks) or an astronaut (yes please!), there aren't so many options for the adventurous youth (and middle aged, and elderly) of today!

[GPSGuided]

As far as the electronic rescue devices go, I have no real issue with them as such, but rather an issue with people who use them as a first resort rather than a last. I think carrying them is very sensible, if the facilities are there, why not use them? I'm sure some of the explorers of yesteryear would have loved to have had that option! But then again, perhaps their stories would have been less heroic had they called for help and been rescued instead of dying in the wilderness

Burke and Wills popped in my mind straight away. Wouldn't they have loved to have a PLB or a sat phone?

I think you're right though, that today's bushwalking and the exploring of the past are different things, but I guess that's unavoidable, given all the exploring that already has been done, plus the growing overpopulation as well. There just aren't that many unexplored or untouched places to go!

I think the major drive of the times are different too and they didn't call "the age of exploration" for nothing. In those days, it's a national objective and passion to explore the unknown world, to establish colonies and gain riches from exotic lands beyond the seas and clouds. Nowadays, we can see virtually everything on satellite and all land (even the Antarctica) has been demarcated by national borders. We now do it for pleasure and personal challenges and hardly for the King/Queen and country. What's unchanged in my mind is our individuals' desire to experience the freedom, explore the wild, breath that fresh air and see that first sunrise.

[biggbird]

Nowadays, we can see virtually everything on satellite and all land (even the Antarctica) has been demarcated by national borders.

Part of the reason I'm keen to go to Mars... Anybody want to join me?

[GPSGuided]

Part of the reason I'm keen to go to Mars... Anybody want to join me?

You can't fly there like a bird, so better contact one of the 3 major national space agencies or one of the private space exploration LLCs and volunteer your life. I heard that at least one of them is recruiting now for a few on a one way trip. Big bucks needed though!

[biggbird]

Recruiting for a one way trip to be part of a reality TV show! I'm not an overly proud person, but I don't think I'd stoop that low

[Happy Pirate]

Don't really get the point of topics like this... You can find/make all the old gear if you want to use it! We're always going to push things in the direction of easier/more comfortable, or if not that, then as mentioned a number of times, in the direction of faster/longer. Both will probably seem soft compared to what people used to do, but remember that they did it that way because that was the only way then, not because they wanted to be tough! And besides, haven't we just been getting progressively softer since our species arrived? We used to live in caves and hunt animals for a living...

Anyway, I think this is probably more along the lines of what you were expecting, so I thought someone better say it so as to not disappoint you

Thanks for the reply bigbird
It wasn't the reply I was expecting; I certainly wasn't trying to be a Troll nor a general Nay-Sayer.
My point was a partial response to a few posts on over-cautious signage and the profliguration of insurance requirements and electronic rescue devices. As well as from reading about the heroic (in today's terms) exploration of the country by amateur hikers in times past.

What I guess I was hoping for was for someone to discuss (and GPSGuided has pointed towards this) that 'Bushwalking' and 'exploration' are different fields and that today's explorers have to work harder to find and push barriers than did last century's best, whilst today's bushwalkers are a recreational offshoot (or pale reflection ) of yesterday's explorers.
There is some awesome exploration going on in Antarctica and remote areas of Aus esp. in Blue Mountains canyoning, caving and Tas off trail hiking among others in the name of private recreation rather than national exploration.

But nobody in 19C complained about kids getting too fat
Steve
BTW I most certainly place myself well into the 'Pussie' category

Apologies if it came off as aggressive, it wasn't meant to be, but it's exam time for me at the moment, so stress levels are high (And yes, I probably shouldn't be on here... Oops!)

Mate I could have offered you the same apology. Forum posts are too easily mis-construed as aggressive.
What are you studying? I'm hoping to go back to full-time study next year too, I know how stressful it can get.
Dreaming of hiking sounds like a legitimate stress relief.
cheers
Steve