Snake Warning - Lerderderg National Park

[ryantmalone]

Was at Lerderderg Gorge this weekend for an overnighter, and was warned by the Parks Ranger before I started walking that there are an unusually large number of Brown and Tiger snakes about in the park at the moment. He mentioned that one of his colleagues was bitten only days ago.

Walking near the Weir, I startled a Red Bellied Black Snake and was nearly bitten myself.

Just throwing a heads up for anyone wandering into the park, would be a good idea to wear some long pants, or even better, canvas gaiters, or any other precautionary measures that you deem worthy.

[jackhinde]

please define nearly bitten?

anyone who goes bushwalking in anything other than long pants is inviting trauma if they leave clear paths or trails, more so from scleromorphs than wildlife though!

[ryantmalone]

please define nearly bitten?

Was walking through the dry riverbed near the weir, took my eyes off my feet for a few seconds mid conversation, and came within half a foot of stepping on a red belly. Startled it, it reared up in attack stance quickly (again, no more than a few inches away from my leg), then once I jumped backwards, it took off real quick. My acquaintances thought it was quite funny that both me and the snake were airborne trying to get away from each other.

[wayno]

please define nearly bitten?

anyone who goes bushwalking in anything other than long pants is inviting trauma if they leave clear paths or trails, more so from scleromorphs than wildlife though!

what about knee length gaiters and shorts?

[jackhinde]

i spent the week end thus attired, and the ettrema has given me very exfoliated knees with nice cross hatch patterns of scraches and dots of thorns that will develop pus! (should listen to my own advice)

Ryan, it seems both you and the serpent got a little fright. It reared up in a defense pose, not attack stance. The only thing that snake would attack would be a frog. Redbellies when confronted by a large dangerous animal will try to make themselves look bigger, if unable to escape they will sideways feint with mouth closed, if further tormented they will even headbut. It is actually quite difficult to get this species to bite.

[ryantmalone]

Ryan, it seems both you and the serpent got a little fright. It reared up in a defense pose, not attack stance. The only thing that snake would attack would be a frog.

Probably yes, but would it attack a human? Of course it would, especially if you step on or too near to one.

please define nearly bitten?

anyone who goes bushwalking in anything other than long pants is inviting trauma if they leave clear paths or trails, more so from scleromorphs than wildlife though!

what about knee length gaiters and shorts?

I'd do it.

[trickos]

I too had a similar experience with a Red Belly a while back. I was alone and it would have been heck of a walk out to safety. I treat Lerderderg with extreme caution and would take heed of that Ranger's advice. I don't think I would be exagerating if I described Lerderderg as nothing more than a "snake infested pit".

red belly

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[Strider]

what about knee length gaiters and shorts?

It's all I ever do. Hate walking in long pants.

[ryantmalone]

I too had a similar experience with a Red Belly a while back. I was alone and it would have been heck of a walk out to safety. I treat Lerderderg with extreme caution and would take heed of that Ranger's advice. I don't think I would be exagerating if I described Lerderderg as nothing more than a "snake infested pit".

I've been considering walking the riverbed from O'Briens to Mckenzies, and I have to say, I wouldn't do it without a PLB. Too high a risk of getting bitten on the riverbed.

[jackhinde]

A black snake would never attack a human, to suggest otherwise demonstrates an ignorance of this species. They will defend themselves in the manner described in my previous post.
Go on your walk, you are hundreds if not thousands of times more likely to come to grief on the car journey to the bushwalk than you are through snakebite on said walk: it is curious how humans perceive relative risks.

[ryantmalone]

A black snake would never attack a human, to suggest otherwise demonstrates an ignorance of this species. They will defend themselves in the manner described in my previous post.

You are aware that Red Bellied Blacks are responsible for many human bites per year, right?

Of course, like many snakes, they will try to flee if possible, but if they are directly threatened, yes... they will strike. They may even mock bite to try and warn you off, but they will bite. Maybe with a less lethal dose of venom than a Brown or a Tiger, but make no mistake, they will bite a human if need be.

[Hallu]

Jackhinde be careful with your definition of "attack". Of course a snake will attack a human if feeling threatened, almost all of them will. What you mean is that no snake is gonna hunt a human being for food or to protect his territory unlike other species that may, such as a saltie, a tiger or a hippopotamus.

[wayno]

thers tigers and hipopotamus running wild in Aus? i'm definitely not walking there then!

[trickos]

I tell you what though Jack, when you nearly step on a snake - I don't care what kind it is and what their likely behaviour is - you still sh*t yourself.

[wayno]

aparently our brains are hard wired to be afraid of snakes amongst other things, its not learned behaviour , we evolved to be afraid of them because of their prevalance and danger where humans evolved.

[neilmny]

I tell you what though Jack, when you nearly step on a snake - I don't care what kind it is and what their likely behaviour is - you still sh*t yourself.

x2

Trouble is Wayno we must have gotten all the snakes and spiders destined for uNZed.....would you like us to ship a few species over

[wayno]

well you can try and get them through but we have our nazi's on the border ready to deal to them..

[wayno]

actually your redbacks have made it through....
and some white herons
and aparently recently half a dozen pelicans made it through border control...

[ryantmalone]

thers tigers and hipopotamus running wild in Aus? i'm definitely not walking there then!

Not Tigers, but considering one or two of my ex girlfriends, that makes me wonder about the existence of hippopotamuses in Australia...

[wayno]

hmm and hipopotamus as known to be one of the most dangerous animals on the planet....

[jackhinde]

Jackhinde be careful with your definition of "attack". Of course a snake will attack a human if feeling threatened, almost all of them will. What you mean is that no snake is gonna hunt a human being for food or to protect his territory unlike other species that may, such as a saltie, a tiger or a hippopotamus.

I was being careful with the word attack... a snake when threatened will defend itself. In regards to bites, of the thousand odd bites in an average year there are very few bites attributed to the gentleman black snake, and there has yet to be a fatality from this species in over 200 years post-colonisation. Considering that this species is by far the most common large elapid in the most densely populated areas of this country I think that supports my observation that they are not a great threat to walkers. The name 'gentleman elapid' was coined by a renowned zoological herpetologist, who claims a black snake will always give 5 warnings before biting, indeed I once heard him laughlingly say of another snake catcher "How the hell did you get bitten by a blacksnake?".

It is true a snake can shock you, even though I handle venomous snakes on a daily basis I too have done big flinch when one has broken for cover near my feet. Luckily no friend has seen me do this or I'd still be copping flack for it.

If I have rankled anyone on this thread I am sorry, I am sure there are many things you have great expertise on that I am ignorant of myself.

[ryantmalone]

I was being careful with the word attack... a snake when threatened will defend itself. In regards to bites, of the thousand odd bites in an average year there are very few bites attributed to the gentleman black snake, and there has yet to be a fatality from this species in over 200 years post-colonisation. Considering that this species is by far the most common large elapid in the most densely populated areas of this country I think that supports my observation that they are not a great threat to walkers. The name 'gentleman elapid' was coined by a renowned zoological herpetologist, who claims a black snake will always give 5 warnings before biting, indeed I once heard him laughlingly say of another snake catcher "How the hell did you get bitten by a blacksnake?".

It is true a snake can shock you, even though I handle venomous snakes on a daily basis I too have done big flinch when one has broken for cover near my feet. Luckily no friend has seen me do this or I'd still be copping flack for it.

If I have rankled anyone on this thread I am sorry, I am sure there are many things you have great expertise on that I am ignorant of myself.

Mate, you're missing the point of this thread, and that is to warn others that there are a number of snakes at Lerderderg at the moment. Brown, Tiger, and Red Belly.

It doesn't matter what you know about the self defence habits of a Red Belly, whether you handle them on a daily basis or not. What matters is that people are aware that they are about in the gorge, that care may need to be taken, and if they come across one unaware, and by whatever course of action follows, get bitten, they may need to be prepared.

And yes, Red Bellies do bite humans. How do I know? Because I have been bitten in the past. Luckily it didn't get skin (hence why I wear long pants!). Why did it bite? Because I stood on it.

Pays to be careful when around a creature that, as you say, "only attacks frogs".

[wayno]

ah so you must really be a frog. ah huh... now the truth is out. your cover is blown.... but your secret is safe with us....

[andrewbish]

I was wondering why I hadn't seen one single snake on recent walks in Vic - they've all gone to Lerderderg!

[wayno]

word about the large frogs there has got out amongst the snakes....

[andrewbish]

Per the Aus Venom Unit, Black snakes account for 6% of snake bites in Aus. http://www.avru.org/vetpet/vetpet_snakes.html.

- so, yes, they do bite people, but not very often.

(Browns and Tigers account for the majority of bites)

[jackhinde]

Missing the point of the thread? Please refer to post two where I too encourage precautions.

[ryantmalone]

ah so you must really be a frog. ah huh... now the truth is out. your cover is blown.... but your secret is safe with us....

Oh Damn!!

Missing the point of the thread? Please refer to post two where I too encourage precautions.

It is actually quite difficult to get this species to bite.

I'm not referring to post two. I'm referring to the rest of the posts where you tell everyone reading not to worry, because these snakes don't bite people.

[wildernesswanderer]

Of course a red bellied will bite, its a natural reaction to a feeling of being threatened. They though don't go out of their way to bite, it has to be provoked, like stepping on them, unlike some other species of snakes.

Thanks for the warning, I've been thinking of going out there soon for a walk, but may buy some gaiters first

[ryantmalone]

Thanks for the warning, I've been thinking of going out there soon for a walk, but may buy some gaiters first

Next visit, I'll definitely be taking the gaiters, and if I head past the weir, I'll probably take a PLB as well, as I'm pretty sure that mobile coverage further upstream is not good.