Bogong in July - hiking boots?

[paidal_chalne_vala]

You can hire snow shoes at the Wilderness shop in Box Hill and at Bogong equipment in the city .
Insist on MSR or Saloman brand snow shoes.
You can hire good MSR snow shoes at TBJ on Mt Stirling.
Ray's ski hire in Myrtleford also rent out MSR Lightning ascent snow shoes .Ensure you hire ski poles too , if you don't have your own trekking poles with snow baskets on the ends.
I am heading up to Mt Stirling this Sunday for two nights of snow camping and snow shoe action. I plan to visit Craig's hut on Monday . . Owning your own micro spikes, ice axe, whippet self arrest ski pole and MSR revo explore snow shoes with the heel lift means I am ready ready teddy to rock 'n roll in the snow anytime anywhere. If you get the bug it will be cheaper to buy this gear than renting it season after season.

[benjabimon]

Thanks for all the useful info

I was definitely thinking of buying a good pair of MSR snow shoes, but thought it would be best to try them out by hiring them first before deciding on any one model. To hear that there are places renting out the MSR equipment is encouraging, and the Lightning Ascent's specifically is impressive, I would be keen on getting my hands on a pair of them to test out. I definitely have the bug, and I totally agree with buying being more cost effective longer term, but I think I need to be strategic about how I spend my money for now, damn it. Thankfully I had the foresight to buy snow baskets for my trekking poles when I got them

[muddy99]

in the past we've hired snowshoes from Ajays http://www.snow-ski.com.au/rentals-ajays.htm in Heathmont and Rays http://rayskishop.com.au/hire-equipment/outerwear-hire at Myrtleford .. Rays is open to midnight on Thurs\Fris... both sets of shoes were acceptable, I think AJays might have been newer\lighter.

[benjabimon]

Trying to get back on topic, and bringing up boots for winter snow fun once again, what are peoples' opinions on buying boots for wintry mountain conditions... some people on the internet advise going half a size up for more room, to allow better circulation and more socks. Is this a general rule to follow, or could it be said that it really depends on the person and the boot? I'm looking at getting a proper pair this winter, and any advice is welcome

[bailz66]

We used to hire at Rays.... Then they started charging extra for poles... Then they didn't tick off one of our sets of shoes and kept trying to get us to return them. Not the same since Doug sold it

[Lophophaps]

In general, I follow a very old adage in having boots with as few panels as possible. Most of the current designs are mad, so much stitching to break and leak, so many panels of purported waterpoof fabric that are not. One reason boot manufacturers like panels is that they are easier and cheaper to make. I'd look for a boot that has decent ankle coverage so that there's a good overlap to gaiters, which should probably be long, to the knees. The tongue should be solid and waterproof. That's on the boot, not you. I'm old-fashioned and still prefer leather, dressed in some manner. The feet will get wet but at least the warmth will remain inside, as opposed to boots that leak very quickly.

[Giddy_up]

I have a pair of these

http://zamberlanusa.com/catalog/index.p ... at&idcat=2

I really like the full piece leather and the very rigid footbed plus the rubber that goes completely around the boot sealing it from moisture. Shoes/boots are such a personal thing but once you find something that works, stick with it.


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[Strider]

I tried on every boot in Hobart and ended up with these and they have been fantastic.

http://www.zamberlan.com/en_eu/636-baff ... 13012.html

Take the time to try on as many as you possibly can and remember that your feet will be larger toward the end of the day. Shop for best fit, not best brand.

[Xplora]

Size your boot to fit in your normal walking socks. You will use them in many other places and you do not want sloppy boots in steep country. GTX boots are usually pretty warm anyway and most will be waterproof for a couple of years if you use them a lot. Snowseal is good for any leather boot as well, even the GTX. But after prolonged continual days in the snow or wet where there is no chance of them drying, they all tend to get a bit wet inside. I tend to agree with Lops about boots as well. The Zamberlan 960's listed above seem pretty good and I do agree the rubber extending up the boot is good. I have also found that wearing gaiters on snow is sometimes a bit counterproductive if you have waterproof pants. Sometimes the snow flicks up from the snow shoe and lands on your pants above your gaiters then melts and the water flows nicely down into your boots. You think your boots are leaking but they are not. This is the newer version of my current boot http://www.macpac.com.au/mens/footwear/ ... e-gtx.html and I have had mine for about 4 years. I paid $400 on sale so this price is not too bad. They are still going well and were comfortable for me from day one. The odd hot spot if I have not worn them for a while but that could also be a sock issue. I have had them in the snow this year and seem to be waterproof but there have been no extended trips as yet. Also be careful buying boots on sale if they have been sitting in a back store room for more than 2 years. The glue in shoes needs use to keep it flexible. I have seen soles fall off boots when they have not been used often enough.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

The Wilderness shop in Box Hill and Ray's ski in Myrtleford both get a tick from me.

[slparker]

I'm thinking of trying snowshoeing this winter. Can I get away with lightweight waterproof shoes + gaiter? I'm just about thinking of selling my stiff soled goretex boots thinking that I'll never wear them again but I'm thinking if a stiff sole is necessary for snowshoeing I'll keep the boots.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Snow shoes and flexible crampons fit any footwear. The main thing is that your boots that you wear when using snow shoes need to be very worn in , comfortable, insulated if possible ( Gore tex lining helps ) and water proof. Gore Tex knee high gaiters are also not optional but essential when taking on deep snow be it wet, icy or dry powder.
I use my KEEN summer trekking boots for snow shoe trekking . I smother them in saddle wax ( DUBBIN ) and then spray them with the magic water repellent spray that I obtain from my local cobbler .
On a 2 night / 3 day snow shoe pack carry trip in the snow and ice at Mt Stirling on July 3,4,5 2016 My feet did not become wet or unreasonably cold. I was wearing two pairs of explorer socks and I had two spare pairs of thick socks in my pack.
It works for me but I may opt for a boot similar to that which LOPS has described if and when I buy a new pair of boots for trekking in general.

[slparker]

Ta. I'll try the goretex lined shoes and gaiters.

[benjabimon]

What are thoughts on the length of snow shoes for Australian conditions?

Looking at the MSR website for their snow shoes, it seems to put me in the category of needing 25" long snow shoes. This is based on my body weight and taking into account the equipment I'm likely to have in my pack. I get the feeling it might be overkill though, and 22" would be fine. However it should be said that I am a fan of overkill and being overly prepared.

[Chezza]

Those manufacturer's specs are a guide only. If you calculate surface areas you'll find differences between manufacturer specifications.

You're at a size where you can hire shoes quite easily. If you don't have the experience and confidence to pick a size, keep hiring. If you must buy, buy on the large side. Postholing through snow with snowshoes on is a somewhat soul-crushing experience.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I hired different snow shoes (from different places such as Erica ski hire, Ray's ski hire in Myrtleford , TBJ at Mt Stirling and so on) a number of times each white season for about 6 winters until I coughed up for some MSR snow shoes. I also purchased the tail fin extensions which are good if you are on soft , deep snow and carrying a multi night winter pack.
I can say that Yowies are a joke, Salomon are good, Tubbs don't get a tick , but MSR won the race the for me.
The bindings on the MSR REVO Explore are so good and well designed. The Lightning ascent bindings are not as good but both have the heel lift which can be engaged with a ski pole when you are going up a steep hill.

[benjabimon]

Excellent, buy on the larger size to also accommodate for my eventual slowing of the metabolism, waistline expansion, and increased weight

I think after looking around that MSR is the only option for me, I have a lot of things manufactured by the company and I find that their gear is rock solid reliable.

[Giddy_up]

+1 for the MSR


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[andrewa]

Interesting. I go up Bogong 2-4 times most winters, with the intention of backcountry skiing. Most of the time we use low walking boots upto the snow line, and then put on telemark boots and walk or perhaps skin on skis. Rarely, after a big dump, snow shows are useful - I often carry them mid winter, but rarely need to use them, however, I'm often walking up at night when everything is frozen. Above the treeline, or walking out of steep runs, we either skin, kick steps, or use crampons, dependent on conditions - I often carry skis, snow shoes and crampons mid winter, as it's very difficult to predict what the conditions will be like, and it is really bad to get stuck on the top, unable to get off due to it being iced up - snow shoes minimum.

A

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I carry/use/wear flexible crampons and MSR snow shoes. I am going to learn to XC ski but still I have an ice axe and a whippet self arrest ski pole. All these things are useful in winter at Mt FT for example when conditions change rapidly.

[andrewa]

I have never actually used an ice axe in ernest up there, over probably 50 plus winter trips, but I'd still take one mid winter....don't ask. At minimum, it makes a good tent peg! Whippets/Ramar self arrest grips - yep, I have them. I have only really ever used them for real when I took a slide at Hotham in Snake Gully, and they didn't slow me down. I feel safer having them though. Self arrest grips work best if you just jam them in the snow when you fall, and before you slide. And this has happened enough to me to justify taking them!

A

[Lophophaps]

Ice axes can be handy but are not needed on most trips. Then there's a trip when all is ice and steep. In such times an axe is not much use unless crampons are worn or steps are cut, which is tedious. The only time I've used an axe for real on Feathertop is in the gullies, ice climbing. My skis have metal edges. If I slip then a stock is instantly reversed and the handle is jammed into the surface with both hands. This has worked, but would not work on hard ice. Iv'e avoided long icey slopes, and this has served me well.

[benjabimon]

So you would say that it is more about careful route selection than anything else?

[Lophophaps]

So you would say that it is more about careful route selection than anything else?

To a certain extent. I've only carried an ice axe in two places in Australia - Feathertop and Blue Lake-Watsons Crags. On these trips we were ice climbing. On some trips to Feathertop I've carried an axe due to the serious plunge factor. However, once the route is established it should be okay for people to follow. Also, I have used axes for their intended purpose, not just as an aid, like a bushwalker would do. In the wrong hands ice axes can be lethal and give a false sense of security. If going up Feathertop or Bogong in winter I'd take an axe. Instep crampons maybe.

In general, if not seeking steep ice or snow to climb I'd avoid it, go back if possible. Water ice is to be avoided by novices at all costs. Hard snow can have steps or a trench kicked, and an axe gives security for that.

Care with the route is critical. Ask what would happen if a person slipped or the slope peeled off. Is this probable? Can the entire party manage? Look at the odds and skills and stack them in your favour. A few years ago I was on an extended trip on the summit of a big mountain. I'd been ill since the first day, and had not recovered. The route was abandoned and I went down an easier way, five months of planning gone, missing the highlights. I went back a few years later, still nice.

[benjabimon]

I think I've read it a few times on here, and it certainly gels with the whole idea of mountains in winter, but people should be prepared to turn back and abandon plans. Much better to live and try again another day, even if it is years later, right?

[Lophophaps]

I think I've read it a few times on here, and it certainly gels with the whole idea of mountains in winter, but people should be prepared to turn back and abandon plans. Much better to live and try again another day, even if it is years later, right?

Correct. Despite all the nice pictures, outdoor activities can be hard work, uncomfortable, wet, tiring and plain depressing at times. These don't bother me unduly - there's no long-term harm. Risk is another matter. Risk can be managed, and if the risk is or seems to be getting too high, then make it less. This may mean abandonment of the trip. Despite climbing thousands of mountains in various ways - bushwalking, rock climbing, ski touring, mountain climbing and cycling - I've yet to conquer one. If the mountain does not want me there it forces me back, and I'm no match for the weather or adverse conditions.

Last year I walked from the Hotham Road on the AAWT to Howitt. The plan was to go over Magdala to The Bluff, then out via Lickhole Creek. After a week of fine weather I woke to a very cold wind and fog. This was changed. The last day was to descend Howitt Spur and hence to Sheepyard Flat, where I waited for the weather to stop. It rained and rained, wild weather on the ridges. It was very wet on the Howqua; higher would have been unpleasant.

[benjabimon]

Yes, totally agree, bushwalking is not always so Instragram perfect and fun. It's not fun to be cold and wet for several days straight

That whole idea of conquering things has got to change too, it's so outdated and.... British.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I avoid risks and turn back if the weather is looking dodgy. That is how I roll in white season in the Vic. Alps. and in other mountains too.
I choose the route which reduces the risks and turn back if it is looking too icy or visibility is approaching zero.
The ice axe is just for cutting steps if need be, post holing and for a self arrest if I slip.
I have self arrested with just a ski pole on the Razorback one time when a spring cornice crumbled.
I would rather come back next year and try again than go home in a box or in a rescue chopper. Things turning Scary is not always good at all.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

We are heading up the Eskdale spur this weekend. We will take the 4WD up to Camp creek gap and then We will set up a snow camp at Michel hut on Sat. and then see if the weather conditions are favourable for a quick summit ascent after lunch .
If it is looking dodgy I won't go past the tree line. We could also try for the summit on early Sunday morning. I will have a PLB, whistle, map , compass, snow shoes, flexible crampons, self arrest whippet pole, ice axe, spare jacket , etc. My friend will have the GPS, ice axe, snow shoes etc.
Somebody has chain sawed the fallen logs on the Eskdale spur this week.

[Xplora]

I have been told Michell Hut is getting a bit of traffic this winter on the weekends. Bogong is looking really good this year. It is likely to be more icy in the mornings so an afternoon ascent would be better. The weather is looking pretty good for this weekend with light winds and not much precipitation. You should be right to Camp Creek gap in 2wd. All the low snow is gone with the last rain.