High country hike difficulty questions

[Baeng72]

Hi,
I hope this is OK to post here.

I want to do overnight camping in the High Country this summer (should be cooler than Grampians or whatever).
I go with my 9yo son, so gauging difficulty is important.

I was thinking either park near Hotham (Dimantina Hut?), walk the Razorback trail to Federation Hut, setup camp, walk up to Feathertop (day pack) and then back to camp for night and retrace steps to car. (1 night)
This doesn't seem too difficult, but I think it's a long drive from Melbourne.

Other options were around Mt Howitt.
Maybe upper Howqua campsite, Helicopter spur, Mt. Magdala. Camp in this area. Mt. Howitt, down Howitt Spur and back to car. (1 night)

Or

Mt Howitt carpark, MacCalister Springs. Camp in this area. Leave gear at Vallejo Ganter (or somewhere in the area, Cross cut saw to Mt Buggary - if feeling adventurous on to Mt. Speculation) with day pack, back to camp for night , back to car next morning. (2 nights or back to car in afternoon of 2nd day).

The Helicopter spur sounds maybe too much. I've read a few blogs and some stuff on this site and there's 3 bands of rock to navigate, varying descriptions of exposure/danger.
Crosscut saw is probably OK with day pack, but bit of up and down I think so might be hard apart from height.

There's always a need to have plenty of water or ability to find it in summer, keep an eye of fire danger, etc.

Anyway, if I'm aiming too difficult or have details wrong, or if there's better hikes that still give a nice sense of adventure/stepping up challenge without being too silly, let me know.

Would really like to start exploring High country and summer seems like a good time.

Thanks in advance,
Brian.

[Xastorm]

Hi Brian, can you give us a bit more information regarding your 9yo’s current level of endurance (physical and mental) and skillset?
FWIW, I’m no parent so my understanding of what a 9yo is capable of is potentially very underestimated! But I think for maximum ENJOYMENT of the experience as well as staying within his physical capability, these could be tough hikes.

What is your ideal distance/time spent hiking per day, and how much do you want the full away from the car camping experience versus basing at one of the vehicle campgrounds and doing day walks? That may give us some ideas for other hikes you mightn’t have considered in those areas.

[stry]

Of the options you have outlined, I'd choose the Razorback, but don't get set on Feather Top and have a plan B to stop and overnight somewhere between the car park and Federation if he flags. That will mean carrying water, even if there is water at Fed., which there may not be.

Or you could look for an alternative "play" walk and overnighter into or near water. That would still be an adventure for a 9YO.

Forget big climbs.

9 year olds have deceptive amounts of energy and excitement, but very little stamina. Doesn't matter what their activities are, or how fit they are in their peer group, they have very little grunt and it's easy to unwittingly push them too hard and turn them off any repeats.

Go slow, be ready to adopt plan B and keep a eye on him, and you will both have a great time doing something he will want to do again.

[Baeng72]

Hi Brian, can you give us a bit more information regarding your 9yo’s current level of endurance (physical and mental) and skillset?
FWIW, I’m no parent so my understanding of what a 9yo is capable of is potentially very underestimated! But I think for maximum ENJOYMENT of the experience as well as staying within his physical capability, these could be tough hikes.

What is your ideal distance/time spent hiking per day, and how much do you want the full away from the car camping experience versus basing at one of the vehicle campgrounds and doing day walks? That may give us some ideas for other hikes you mightn’t have considered in those areas.

Thanks for replying.

Car camping is fun, but would prefer overnight hiking.

We've done 2 walks on Prom Southern circuit that were both 2 nights.
Done Walk into History (High Lead carpark to Starling's Gap, then down to Big Pat's) - 1 night.
Also a bit of hiking in Grampians carrying gear.

We completed the Overland from 1st to 6th of November, mostly in huts, but I had to carry tent, etc . I only make him carry his bag and some clothes.
He cruised first 4 days (did get tired last couple of Kms from Frog Flats to New Pelion hut).
He was over it last 2 days, but had no trouble completing them.

Recently hiked from Warburton to Starlings Gap (Overland warmup) which I think was nearly 20km, with section from Big Pat's up to Starling's uphill mostly carrying all gear and camping the night (car out next day).


He's got a lot of energy, so can leave me in his wake at start of a walk. But by end of day, I'm generally still going at same plodding rate and he's struggling (which gives me nice short breaks waiting for him)

[Baeng72]

Of the options you have outlined, I'd choose the Razorback, but don't get set on Feather Top and have a plan B to stop and overnight somewhere between the car park and Federation if he flags. That will mean carrying water, even if there is water at Fed., which there may not be.

Or you could look for an alternative "play" walk and overnighter into or near water. That would still be an adventure for a 9YO.

Forget big climbs.

9 year olds have deceptive amounts of energy and excitement, but very little stamina. Doesn't matter what their activities are, or how fit they are in their peer group, they have very little grunt and it's easy to unwittingly push them too hard and turn them off any repeats.

Go slow, be ready to adopt plan B and keep a eye on him, and you will both have a great time doing something he will want to do again.

Thanks for replying!

You're correct about Stamina. He burns me at the start of any walk, but I end up usually leading the way and waiting as he slows down after a few hours.
We've done a few hikes, and I haven't managed to destroy his love of camping and hiking yet.
OK, so I guess the Mt. Howitt area hikes are a bit much, because of climb.
Razorback might still be a go. Perhaps Baw Baw Plateau, starting at St, Gwinear carpark and staying somewhere overnight (Mt. Whitelaw?) might be OK too...

[Xastorm]

If he’s just done the OT, then accept you’ve set the bar of expectation high and not much may compare for a while

I’d not forget the Howitt idea, but would back it off a little.. Mac Springs day 1, Howitt and part of the Crosscut day 2, hike out day 3. I would not attempt it from the Howqua side.

Razorback is awesome if he’s inspired by views.
Does he (or you) have a great interest in the vegetation? Baw Baw is lovely as you move through myrtle beech rainforests to the plateau.. but it’s not exactly forests on the OT scale. Bogong high plains is very pretty and easy walking, with lots of snow gums.

Howitt would be my pick!

[Baeng72]

If he’s just done the OT, then accept you’ve set the bar of expectation high and not much may compare for a while

I’d not forget the Howitt idea, but would back it off a little.. Mac Springs day 1, Howitt and part of the Crosscut day 2, hike out day 3. I would not attempt it from the Howqua side.

Razorback is awesome if he’s inspired by views.
Does he (or you) have a great interest in the vegetation? Baw Baw is lovely as you move through myrtle beech rainforests to the plateau.. but it’s not exactly forests on the OT scale. Bogong high plains is very pretty and easy walking, with lots of snow gums.

Howitt would be my pick!

Thanks for the reply!

Howitt via Vallejo Gantner/Mac springs is OK, cool.
How's the drive (is it via Traralgon)?
Google also shows heading via Buller at 2 hours less, but seems to recommend via Traralgon (road closures?)

I'll have to run it past him regarding views vs vegetation.
For me, sclerophyll (wet or dry) was more interesting than myrtle rainforest (maybe less gloomy?), and I love a well earned view.

[eggs]

The walk into Vallejo Gantner would be fine, and from there a day walk out to the Cross Cut Saw high point [1706] and then back via a return side to Mt Howitt/ Howitt West Peak itself should not involve too much climbing.
You will really only be pushing into big climbs if you drop down to Mt Buggery or worse by pushing onto Mt Speculation.

I drove in via a slight north bypass of Traralgon [Yallourn North] and up to Licolo, Arbuckle Junction, etc. Roads at the time were fine - Nov 2018.

[davidn3875]

It seems that you son is like most at that age - flat out or stop! But I congratulate you on getting him interested in the outdoors at an early age.
In addition to the already good suggestions, I would consider anywhere across the top of the Bogong High Plains. A couple of days can be spent from Pretty Valley - Tawonga Huts - the Jaithmathangs - Mt Jim a

[davidn3875]

opps - continued - and then return back across the Plains.
So many options - enjoy.

[north-north-west]

Another option would be to start at MacFarlane Saddle and walk into the campsite (via Spion Kopje if the conditions permit), then visit Tali Karng and Mt Wellington and maybe even the Gables and/or the Sentinels before walking back out. Lot of 4WD track walking but I've seen very few vehicles out there, and it's a really stunning area.

[Baeng72]

Another option would be to start at MacFarlane Saddle and walk into the campsite (via Spion Kopje if the conditions permit), then visit Tali Karng and Mt Wellington and maybe even the Gables and/or the Sentinels before walking back out. Lot of 4WD track walking but I've seen very few vehicles out there, and it's a really stunning area.

Thanks!
I've forgotten about Lake Tali Karng.
I read about it here some time ago: https://www.trailhiking.com.au/lake-tal ... on-plains/
Is the campsite Nyimba camp?

[north-north-west]

That's the one. It's not that far in and there are options for trips from there so it makes a good base for people with kids.

[Amahb]

Hi Brian,

I have 3 kids, currently, 9, 11 and 13.

Based on your history he will not have any problem with Razorback to Feathertop. We did this walk when my youngest was 7. We parked at Diamantina and walked out to Federation Hut on day 1. Day 2 we packed up and walked up to the top of Feathertop and then back out to our car. We left our packs at the bottom of the turn off to Feathertop.

As a point of reference all 3 kids have done the OT, Grampians, Prom and a few High Country walks.

Another option would be park at Mountain Creek Camp, walk up the Staircase to Bogong and then on to Cleve Cole to camp. Retrace your steps the next day. You can camp at Mountain Creek to ensure an early start on the first day. This would be a bit more of a challenge, but your history suggests doable.

We have also done a pretty tough walk from Falls Creek, down to Big River, up to Cleve Cole, over Bogong and then down to Mountain Creek Camp via The Staircase. We did this over 2 nights and our youngest was 8. She was tired, but we all were!! You need 2 cars for this.

Another one is the Falls to Hotham crossing, but again 2 cars or organise a shuttle bus if you have the time.

Good Luck,

Andrew.

[Baeng72]

Hi Brian,

I have 3 kids, currently, 9, 11 and 13.

Based on your history he will not have any problem with Razorback to Feathertop. We did this walk when my youngest was 7. We parked at Diamantina and walked out to Federation Hut on day 1. Day 2 we packed up and walked up to the top of Feathertop and then back out to our car. We left our packs at the bottom of the turn off to Feathertop.

As a point of reference all 3 kids have done the OT, Grampians, Prom and a few High Country walks.

Another option would be park at Mountain Creek Camp, walk up the Staircase to Bogong and then on to Cleve Cole to camp. Retrace your steps the next day. You can camp at Mountain Creek to ensure an early start on the first day. This would be a bit more of a challenge, but your history suggests doable.

We have also done a pretty tough walk from Falls Creek, down to Big River, up to Cleve Cole, over Bogong and then down to Mountain Creek Camp via The Staircase. We did this over 2 nights and our youngest was 8. She was tired, but we all were!! You need 2 cars for this.

Another one is the Falls to Hotham crossing, but again 2 cars or organise a shuttle bus if you have the time.

Good Luck,

Andrew.

Thanks for the reply!

I only have one car, so anything requiring a car shuffle is out.
I had wanted to do the Falls to Hotham crossing, but logistically not doable at present due to transport.
Feathertop does seem like a good one and the drive doesn't seem to bad (4.5 hrs roughly).
We have to drive 3 hours to Halls Gap or to the Prom, so it's not much more.

[nezumi]

Another option would be to start at MacFarlane Saddle and walk into the campsite (via Spion Kopje if the conditions permit), then visit Tali Karng and Mt Wellington and maybe even the Gables and/or the Sentinels before walking back out. Lot of 4WD track walking but I've seen very few vehicles out there, and it's a really stunning area.

Thanks!
I've forgotten about Lake Tali Karng.
I read about it here some time ago: https://www.trailhiking.com.au/lake-tal ... on-plains/
Is the campsite Nyimba camp?

Heads up, Tali Karng is currently closed and functionally inaccessible: https://www.parks.vic.gov.au/places-to- ... tali-karng

[Xastorm]

Howitt carpark is probably 4-4.5h via the Moe way.. Jamieson-Licola Road is NOT a shortcut no matter what Google says. Once you're on Tamboritha Road it's a worthy drive which will get you enthused for what's to come!

You could do a modified Falls-Hotham with one car, just hook back up onto the Bogong High Plains from Dibbin's Hut.. I did something similar solo last weekend. Or you could stay on the high plains instead of heading down the valley.. there's quite a few old huts to poke around inside if your son has an interest in that side of things. (Tawonga Huts in pic).

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmJs7rN2

So many options, the Victorian Alps are so awesome. And how lucky is your son to start experiencing that so early!

[Baeng72]

Howitt carpark is probably 4-4.5h via the Moe way.. Jamieson-Licola Road is NOT a shortcut no matter what Google says. Once you're on Tamboritha Road it's a worthy drive which will get you enthused for what's to come!

You could do a modified Falls-Hotham with one car, just hook back up onto the Bogong High Plains from Dibbin's Hut.. I did something similar solo last weekend. Or you could stay on the high plains instead of heading down the valley.. there's quite a few old huts to poke around inside if your son has an interest in that side of things. (Tawonga Huts in pic).

unnamed.jpg

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmJs7rN2

So many options, the Victorian Alps are so awesome. And how lucky is your son to start experiencing that so early!

Thanks for the reply!

Not sure my son is lucky, he's got me as a dad!

Modified Falls-Hotham, so Day 1 to Cope Hut, Day 2 to Dibbins Hut, then another track (presumably shorter) back to Heathy Spur? Sorry, I'm still getting my bearings with the geography of the Alps, so can't visualize the locations of huts and tracks in relation to each other. I saw an overnighter from Mt Lock to Dibbins Hut, then returning by another track forming a circuit. Looked interesting too.

Love the photo!

[eggs]

I am yet to do a report of a trip in Nov 2016.
It was
Day 1 from the car park at Mt Hotham - out to Mt Loch - down Machinery Spur and along to Blair Hut - up to Westons Hut and along to Tawonga Huts [pictured by Xastorm]. 18km and 896m of climbing in 7.5 hrs.
Day 2 - Pack up to Mt Jaithmathang - and then a long day walk over to Fainter South over the tops and back along the road before camping on top of Mt Jaithmathang.
Travelling over the top ridge line was easier than following the road - lots of branches down. 16km and 816m of climbing in 7 hrs.
Day 3 - Back to AAWT and side to Mt Jim before down to Dibbins Hut - past Derricks Hut and back to Hotham car park. 18km with 815m climbing in 7.5 hrs.

You can see there are some big climbs in this circuit.
Your suggestion of a loop return out of Falls Creek to Cope and then down to Dibbins would probably involve a descent past Mt Jim then heading along the valley to Blairs Hut and climbing again past Westons before heading back to Falls Creek.
That is a big climb up from Blairs Hut.
You would have similar heights looping from Mt Loch down to Dibbins Hut.
Not sure how Heathys Spur got into this - it would add a lot of distance in being on the other side of the High Plains.
Someone suggested earlier a less arduous alternative - viz to Tawonga Huts and back.
That would be a very nice loop - Falls to Cope to Jim to Tawonga - definitely visit Mt Jaithmathang which would be the highlight of such a walk - then back to Falls via Pretty Valley.

[Baeng72]

Not sure how Heathys Spur got into this - it would add a lot of distance in being on the other side of the High Plains.

Sorry, I thought Falls to Hotham crossing was Heathy Spur to Cope Hut (day 1), Cope Hut to Dibbins Hut (day 2), Dibbins Hut to Hotham. As I said, no idea of the layout of the area yet.

https://www.parks.vic.gov.au/places-to- ... e-crossing

[eggs]

That is probably right - as Cope is not that far around the lake and day 1 could go via Heathy as a high level route around the lake.
But you mentioned Heathy as part of the return route from Dibbins.
As a loop - that would logically take you through Pretty Valley back to Falls and Heathy Spur is on the other side of the lake from there.

[Baeng72]

That is probably right - as Cope is not that far around the lake and day 1 could go via Heathy as a high level route around the lake.
But you mentioned Heathy as part of the return route from Dibbins.
As a loop - that would logically take you through Pretty Valley back to Falls and Heathy Spur is on the other side of the lake from there.

Thanks for your reply!

I'm geographically challenged.

The reason I mentioned Heathy was because I was replying to a comment that said "You could do a modified Falls-Hotham with one car, just hook back up onto the Bogong High Plains from Dibbin's Hut.".
Falls-Hotham starts at Heathy, so I was trying to work out how Heathy fit into a hike to Dibbins.

If the commenter meant start somewhere near Hotham, then it's not a Falls-Hotham crossing I guess...

Anyway, just asking questions to try and work out which way is up, so don't what I say as much more than ramblings of someone who doesn't have the lay of the land.

[north-north-west]

Do you have any maps of the Victorian high country? Get something like one of the Rooftop maps of one or two general areas, and see exactly where the tracks go. It's a lot easier to get your mind around the possibilities if you have something concrete in front of you all the time.

[Baeng72]

Do you have any maps of the Victorian high country? Get something like one of the Rooftop maps of one or two general areas, and see exactly where the tracks go. It's a lot easier to get your mind around the possibilities if you have something concrete in front of you all the time.

Thanks for the reply!

I've got an Avenza map on the iPhone, but I need to get to Aussie Disposals to get one of those Outdoor recreation type maps of the area so I stop putting my foot in it!
https://www.aussiedisposals.com.au/spat ... e-area-map

[neilmny]

That is good map. Also the Rooftops maps are popular.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

There is a new edition of the SV Buller Howitt map and of the SV Bogong Alpine Area. Thanks to the O.P. for notifying me that Lake Tali Karng is still closed.

[Baeng72]

There is a new edition of the SV Buller Howitt map and of the SV Bogong Alpine Area. Thanks to the O.P. for notifying me that Lake Tali Karng is still closed.

I ordered both yesterday morning online.
They were in the mail box today, which is pretty quick.
Anyway, I got 4th Ed of Bogong Alipine and 3rd Ed. of Buller Howitt.
Thanks!

[Baeng72]

Was going to head up to Howitt car park today (or Sunday) and bingo! Bushfire near Mt. Howitt.
I thought the rain and change would've reduced fire risk.
Anyway, I doubt my partner will let me go up to high country for a long time now.
Just saw another back near Mt. Howitt, so guess it's all over the place.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Wait until the fires back off everywhere and then try an easy walk from Pretty Valley hut to Tawonga huts and onto Young's Hut on the Bogong High Plains. The Buller / Howitt area after Early Jan. tends to be iffy for finding water easily. I would guess that Hellfire Creek is dry already .

[Baeng72]

Wait until the fires back off everywhere and then try an easy walk from Pretty Valley hut to Tawonga huts and onto Young's Hut on the Bogong High Plains. The Buller / Howitt area after Early Jan. tends to be iffy for finding water easily. I would guess that Hellfire Creek is dry already .

I think that's it for hiking until the Autumn/whenever it's cool and damp again.
Can't complain. Poor people losing homes and animals getting carbonized out in the bush .