PLB rescue near South Viking tonite (Wonnangatta)

[Stew63]

Not sure if it's one of our bushwalk.com crew but a PLB was set off a couple of hours ago and the Police helicopter is on location right now (8:05pm) winching someone out of one of the steep gullies just to the south of South Viking. Hope it's not too bad

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Either way, good or bad the PLB saved the day. Everyone should own one and carry it with them on all overnight hikes, esp. if you bush walk solo.

[Xplora]

Still nothing in the news about this activation and rescue that I could find. I found this interesting article though which highlights the growing problem with PLS's or more to the point, the owners of PLB's. http://www.bluemountainsgazette.com.au/ ... ency-here/
They are not essential when you have phone coverage close by and someone in the party can get to it but solo walkers may not have that luxury.

[Stew63]

Still nothing in the news about this activation and rescue that I could find. I found this interesting article though which highlights the growing problem with PLS's or more to the point, the owners of PLB's. http://www.bluemountainsgazette.com.au/ ... ency-here/
They are not essential when you have phone coverage close by and someone in the party can get to it but solo walkers may not have that luxury.

I have a colleague who was seriously injured in a trail bike accident about 2 years ago - the party was relying on mobile phone coverage for any emergency. Unfortunately despite what they thought from previous experience - coverage was not available anywhere near the accident site and by the time they did get someone to find coverage there was an error made in the coordinates of the accident scene passed on to authorities. Then the authorities couldn't call them back with any reliable signal. A passing trail biker later offered their own PLB to activate which they did and that saved the day and made it much faster to get the helicopter in.

[Xplora]

I certainly was not saying PLB's were not useful and in the case sited the use of one would have been justified. With the price coming down along with their size, PLB's are becoming more popular and with that the increasing number of false activation. People need a bit more education in their use and they are not the first thing to reach for in any emergency. Given good phone reception, a metered and timely response by authorities is more certain. If position is doubtful then activation of a beacon after notifying authorities may also be helpful. Considering people ring 000 for pizza then it is not beyond the realms of possibility for PLB's to be activated for trival things. Education is the key. Regardless of PLB activation, I will still be looking for phone coverage to advise the extent of the emergency unless it was clear no such reception would be close.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

PLB activation is the last resort. The only get out of jail card you have left to play when the poo has hit the fan in the middle of nowhere.

[Stroller]

Interesting. I think we heard that chopper from mt spec when I was up there. Was it the long weekend. I can't keep track of the days. Anyway I myself got lost up there and when I spoke to the local ranger - because I was able to get phone reception, he told me that no one else was having trouble up on the Viking. Clearly he didn't know about that rescue operation . I was trying to impress upon him the need for more track marking as the place is not easy regardless of the amount of signage. That is even for those people who manage to find and stay on the track, it's very hard work. And going up it from the south end must be nothing short of a nightmare because it is so steep and overgrown and slippery with leaves. Wilderness or not the track needs work and if hikers don't speak up, it won't get any better and more money wasting rescues will continue.

I only just got out in time myself having spent a night up there and run out of water the next day. I couldn't have lasted too much longer without help and I would have been devastated if I had to call for a rescue.

The stupidity of inadequate track marking has no good excuse. I'm not one for plbs and I don't carry one though I concede that some people may feel better with one in their pack.

Perhaps you haven't heard more about the call out mentioned above because the person rescued didn't want it to be in the news.

[tastrax]

The stupidity of inadequate track marking has no good excuse

Its about equal to the stupidity of people that walk beyond their capabilities or experience.

[Snowzone]

Interesting. I think we heard that chopper from mt spec when I was up there. Was it the long weekend. I can't keep track of the days. Anyway I myself got lost up there and when I spoke to the local ranger - because I was able to get phone reception, he told me that no one else was having trouble up on the Viking. Clearly he didn't know about that rescue operation . I was trying to impress upon him the need for more track marking as the place is not easy regardless of the amount of signage. That is even for those people who manage to find and stay on the track, it's very hard work. And going up it from the south end must be nothing short of a nightmare because it is so steep and overgrown and slippery with leaves. Wilderness or not the track needs work and if hikers don't speak up, it won't get any better and more money wasting rescues will continue.

I only just got out in time myself having spent a night up there and run out of water the next day. I couldn't have lasted too much longer without help and I would have been devastated if I had to call for a rescue.

The stupidity of inadequate track marking has no good excuse. I'm not one for plbs and I don't carry one though I concede that some people may feel better with one in their pack.

Perhaps you haven't heard more about the call out mentioned above because the person rescued didn't want it to be in the news.

Point 1. You are presuming the plb call out was for what.... getting lost. It could of been injury which would have nothing to do with track marking.
Point 2. It is clearly signed that there will be no signage, track marking etc. and that it is a wilderness area. If you cannot navigate without markers maybe you should not be there.

[andrewp]

I was trying to impress upon him the need for more track marking as the place is not easy regardless of the amount of signage. That is even for those people who manage to find and stay on the track, it's very hard work. And going up it from the south end must be nothing short of a nightmare because it is so steep and overgrown and slippery with leaves. Wilderness or not the track needs work and if hikers don't speak up, it won't get any better and more money wasting rescues will continue.

I'm not exactly where you were, but if you're talking about going up to S Viking from the Wonnangatta, the reason there's no track markers is because it's not a track. It's a just a route used by many. You will find a footpad, but it's still not a "track".

The AAWT goes from Viking Saddle, over the Viking and continues east to Barry Saddle. There is no track going south.

[Stroller]

As I said there are plenty of track markers in that wilderness area and there is track. It's just inconsistent. I don't know what you call a track but I call a track a visible sign on the ground of where to go next versus a route which doesn't necessarily have any type of visible sign.

I would point out that along the section to the razor from my despair plenty of e perienced bushwaljers lose the track. I met several over the days I was in the area.. The people who I've spoken to about the Viking section that get through it quickly do so only because they've been able to find the track and not lose it.

[Stroller]

Andrew re what you quoted of my earlier post I was referring to southbound hikers not hiking to south Viking. I made mention of south Viking because of the cairn which I guessed was indicating the direction to take to go there but I personally got confused by it and followed to the base of the rocks on the ridge rather than staying up high on the ridge. A cairn doesn't point you in a direction but two cairns do.

[Xplora]

Get some sleep girl. Good to hear your progress.

[Drew]

A cairn doesn't point you in a direction but two cairns do.

I'm pretty sure that the cairns between Viking and South Viking, and from South Viking down towards the Wonangatta, weren't placed by Parks Vic, and I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't claim that it's a "track". It's a commonly used route, not a formal track.

Some track work on sections of the Viking area would make life easier but, as has been mentioned above, there are signs warning that it's a wilderness area with limited track marking. And for experienced walkers who don't mind some navigating and scrub bashing it's nice to have areas where things can get a bit rugged.

Last time I did it (a couple of years ago) the section between Despair to The Razor was much easier to follow than it had been a couple of years earlier.

[Hisham]

It's a conundrum because if wilderness areas are built up, what's left?

And PLB or a reliable sat phone should be encouraged as essential equipment in the wilderness and back country.

[Stroller]

Gosh who said anything about building it up? Just some more track markers is all I'm suggesting and it's not something that isn't actually already there, only it's very patchy.

As to the needs of expert navigators, there is surely no shortage of terrain such people can enjoy. Quite simply every mountain or bit of bush is suitable for those who love to live sign and footpad free. I don't believe the AAWT should've kept pure for their pleasure alone.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

A few track markers do not make a new Disney land /club med resort.
The AAWT is hard and a few extra track markers won't make it any softer, but they can't hurt either.
Leave that to Parks Victoria's big wigs who have their Club Med/ Lego land/ Disney land goggles on when looking at the Falls to Hotham walk as well as Mt. Buffalo and The Prom.

[tastrax]

Just like a little bit more education and experience for walkers - wont make them any softer, but that cant hurt either. Why do we always expect more from someone else and less from our own skill sets and education? If you don't have the skills you should not be up there.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Being able to navigate with a map and compass in a white out is very useful but the odd orange arrow on a tree never killed anyone either.

Last edited by paidal_chalne_vala on Fri 31 Mar, 2017 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Xplora]

Being able to navigate with a map and compass in white out is very useful but the odd orange arrow on a tree never killed anyone either.

It is very difficult to navigate successfully in a white out when there are no landmarks. You need to know where you are to work out where you have to go. A marker is not of much use either in a white out. I have not been able to see the next snow pole so finding a marker every now and then would be pointless. I did navigate from Mt. Bogong to Quartz once in a white out and knew that by walking on a bearing I would eventually end up at the cliff walls and could follow them to Quartz ridge but that was a pretty easy scenario.

[Snowzone]

Two very clear warnings before going into the area. Wilderness zones are set aside to remain that because there is very little left. It is not about bashing up and down every forested hillside. It is about enjoying area's of remoteness that remain as close to untouched as possible.

[tastrax]

..... but the odd orange arrow on a tree never killed anyone either.

Except maybe the tree....

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I was not linking the navigating in a white out with the orange arrow on a tree. oh sigh .... forget it!

Last edited by paidal_chalne_vala on Wed 29 Mar, 2017 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Lophophaps]

Interesting. There will be no signs or directional markers to indiciate the AAWT. This says that there will be a track. The contrary is the case on the steepness approaching the gully on the north side of Viking and above Viking Saddle. Also, there are still AWT markers, quite misleading and well away from the AAWT alignment. I'm struggling to see that a track will compromise wild places. It might be that a track will limit the amount of scrub that is bashed on the above two sections. It may be time for PV to think about a tank at Viking Saddle. Water is there but less than before, and it's an impossibly long day without stopping at Viking Saddle. Within 10-15 years a tank may be essential.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Bring on a Tank !!

[Snowzone]

Interesting. There will be no signs or directional markers to indiciate the AAWT. This says that there will be a track. The contrary is the case on the steepness approaching the gully on the north side of Viking and above Viking Saddle. Also, there are still AWT markers, quite misleading and well away from the AAWT alignment. I'm struggling to see that a track will compromise wild places. It might be that a track will limit the amount of scrub that is bashed on the above two sections. It may be time for PV to think about a tank at Viking Saddle. Water is there but less than before, and it's an impossibly long day without stopping at Viking Saddle. Within 10-15 years a tank may be essential.

I'm not suggesting a track would compromise but it doesn't need to be a highway. The management plan states 'maintaining but not upgrading'. I last went through in November and yes there was a lot of treefall and the footpad was vague in places but it was not impossible to find. The remnant markers were put there to help after the fires. How would a water tank at viking saddle be filled? There is water there, you might just have to walk a bit further down the water course to find it. The above discussion seems to mainly be on navigation skills. If you cannot sufficiently navigate should you be there...

[bernieq]

With a tank comes more people ..... so a toilet will also be needed - and a shelter in case of bad weather. Why not a hut and camping platforms? They could have USB charging stations - perhaps a simple chairlift to the summit to avoid that tricky climb (or at least stairs !). All tastefully done, of course, to preserve that sense of wilderness.

Point 2. It is clearly signed that there will be no signage, track marking etc. and that it is a wilderness area. If you cannot navigate without markers maybe you should not be there.

Fully agree, snowzone. It takes time and practice to develop the appropriate skills - for a change, can we not dumb everything down to the simplistic ?

... and BTW (since I'm in full rant mode), can people please dig holes deep enough to contain poo and paper?
1. away from water catchment
2. hole 10+cm deep (that's 10cm min!), covered when finished.
and, girls, if you use paper after urinating, pack it out (or consider using a cloth that can be rinsed)
Toilet paper scattered around a campsite (eg Mt Spec last visit) just doesn't work.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I go to the toilet Indonesian style with a 600 ml bottle of water and small container of liquid soap. The proper technique required for these ablutions after No.2 requires years to make it automatic .Of course the left hand is the main tool in this activity.Having a proper trowel also helps.