The relentless restrictions continue OLT

[Ent]

Hi ILUVSWTAS

Very good point on the general public view as some can get very pedantic. Say you do met a ranger, have a chat them, get a friendly wave and continue to walk the "wrong" way do not be surprised that Parks will get an email or two from "disgruntled" tourists that a Parks' officer allowed his "mate" to break the law. When working for a council it was amazing the number of "concerned" citizens that would "dob" in an employee for doing someone a "favour". You are forced to investigate such incidents and I have yet to struck any incident that did not have a sensible legitimate reason but still it proved stressful for the investigator and the employer being questioned unnecessarily. In fact such practices resulted in a tragic event for a council on the east coast.

SBS

A bad law is a bad law and just ignoring it means more bad laws will come. Practically on the ground bumping into Parks' employees is reasonably rare and when you do most likely they will be sensible and equally frustrated by head office's decrees. What will you do if the Park Ranger says, sorry mate, it is the law, turn around?

Regards

[ILUVSWTAS]

What will you do if the Park Ranger says, sorry mate, it is the law, turn around?

Regards

I'd just step offtrack into the bush where PWS never venture....

[stepbystep]

What will you do if the Park Ranger says, sorry mate, it is the law, turn around?

Regards

I'd just step offtrack into the bush where PWS never venture....

Something like that.

As far as I can tell this is a rule, not a law. I'm happy to break a rule or 2.

[Miyata610]

As stated before, none of this is new. What is new is that we now have some written down guidelines to follow/interpret/getaround. That's a good thing.

Also new is the extension to the season. As I understand it, that was because of the large and increasing use of the facilities in the two shoulder months has lead the PWS to want to help out with more fuel, poo collection and helpful ranger assistance for those periods. Nice of them.

I think there's enough flexibility in the wording to let us really do what we want. As noted that may require stepping off the track occasionally. I'm happy.

Oh, and this has nothing to do with the commercial operators. It's simply a matter of a) increased use out of season, not by commercial groups btw, and b) a request by people like us to clarify the rules.

Well done PWS.

[north-north-west]

Why are TasPaws getting all the blame when there's bound to have been a degree of political interference in this?

[Ent]

Why are TasPaws getting all the blame when there's bound to have been a degree of political interference in this?

Does anyone apart from Parks know the process behind the decision as there has been no consultation? Personally I can not see the Minister one day trundling in making up these regulations but then again this might have happened. Who knows? I have not noticed much of a push for the regulations apart from people seeking clarification.

There is a growing number of people doing the Never Never and not sure if this is driving the push for regulations as it got singled out. In fact, still a bit puzzled as the Never Never drops you up closer to Kiora than Windy Ridge with the rules now being you must head out that way. Locals would tend to head back to Kiora and either drop down the Paddy Hartnett route or go back to New Pelion Hut and then down the Lees Paddock track in order to avoid a long car shuffle. The concept of going to Lake St Claire makes not much sense for locals. This to me tends to suggest that a bureaucratic planner has been the source rather than political interference.

I think we can take it for granted that Parks like every other arm of government has demands placed on it to cut expenditure and increase revenue but it has been left to the bureaucrats to decide where and how. The financial environment and collapse in GST revenues means that the Tasmanian Government has huge funding issues and the old approach of borrowing does not work anymore as tipping the State credit rating downward will result in massive increase in funding costs for borrowing.

NNW if you have a definable political figure it would be handy as I would like them to explain their approach.

Regards

[north-north-west]

No, Brett, I don't have anyone particular in mind, just going on my own experience of being in the service. Invariably anything of this nature was, at the least, kicked off by the politicians.

[corvus]

No, Brett, I don't have anyone particular in mind, just going on my own experience of being in the service. Invariably anything of this nature was, at the least, kicked off by the politicians.

NNW do you honestly think our Pollies come up with this crap they have more on their plates than to alienate more local Tasmanians.
This rule looks like it came from some one in the department who would not know a wombat from a dingbat with no understanding of the tracks in or out of the Cradle area and who is desperately trying to hold on to their job by increasing revenue .
corvus

[walkinTas]

...who would not know a wombat from a dingbat ...

Great line Corvus! ...but you have to admit they are hard to distinguish between. I think wombats are only slightly more intelligent and a little less destructive.

[Nuts]

As anyone who has worked for parks knows politics isn't only for politicians. There will be more to this than seems likely and less than some imagine. If it was hoped that this might stop school groups, hippies (and Scott's) there is a fatal and obvious flaw.. As things go though I expect the flaws will be ignored for what must seem like an easy and lucrative solution.

Even I can think of much more lucrative future directions than charging and controlling the easy targets more (or a ridulous price for the platforms) and it would involve a collective set of nads by 'paws'. Contact me for details, consultation even...

[Ent]

As one wise person said, "never put down to malice what stupidity can account for".

[ybi2]

I will be hiking in from Arm River in February or March 2013. Not to avoid any high fees but all I want to do is climb Mt Ossa and a few around it and then out again. I only have three days in which to do it. I know I will get a lot of negative points to this but I can not see how you have to pay a fee to do the whole track but no fee (apart from park entry) to do the Arm River Track.

Although I still believe the fee to to the track is high I believe that a small fee could be charged to do the Arm River Track as this track has up keep just like the OLT.

I feel for the locals having to pay state taxes as well as high fees to walk the track. The tracks here in NSW near to where I live are completed by locals and not only other Australians but overseas hikers as well. Most locals take care of the track better than non locals.

Is there any reason for the one way policy?

[MrWalker]

Is there any reason for the one way policy?

I believe it is supposed to enhance the Wilderness experience.
If everyone goes the same way at about the same speed you will not meet anyone all day and think you are in real Wilderness.
If people use both directions equally then you will meet at least half the people walking the track on any day and think that it is too crowded and therefore not Wilderness.

That's the theory anyway. In practice you end up in a long queue of 30 people that take ages to get past (or to pass you) because you are going the same way at the same speed. Whereas if they went the other way you would only see them very briefly and forget them quickly, so you would be on your own almost the whole day.

[corvus]

Personally never had any problem with the one way system nor have I encountered a Queue other than at the Visitors Center or very early in the morning for the toilets on the Track.
I may not like it but it does appear to be working and in no way would I agree to a fee (other than PP ) for the Arm River Track or any other non OLT sections on or off season.
corvus

[creeping_moses]

The one thing I dont like is that Tasmanians seem to get triple charged via the Overland Track booking fee, PWS charges and State taxes. That's a large sum of money for one person to walk one trail... I understand that all others must still pay the PWS charges, but for tax-paying Tasmanians to walk the so called "premier walking experience" in their own state (that is managed by a department of the State government that they fund) at such a large cost to the walker is rather dubious in my opinion.

In regards to just flouting the laws/rules, I've always wondered what the penalty actually is? Do rangers write tickets or something?

[Son of a Beach]

Ybi2, there is a fee for the Arm River Track. And the purpose of the fee is for upkeep of the track (and the park in general). In fact you even mentioned the fee in your post.

It is the National Parks entry permit fee. It's purpose is for maintenance of tracks and other works undertaken in National Parks.

I don't think there is a need for a second fee. If there was, why would there not be two fees for every track? And if there were two fees for every track, then it would make sense to merge them back into one fee anyhow.

[Turfa]

The one thing I dont like is that Tasmanians seem to get triple charged via the Overland Track booking fee, PWS charges and State taxes. That's a large sum of money for one person to walk one trail... I understand that all others must still pay the PWS charges, but for tax-paying Tasmanians to walk the so called "premier walking experience" in their own state (that is managed by a department of the State government that they fund) at such a large cost to the walker is rather dubious in my opinion.

In regards to just flouting the laws/rules, I've always wondered what the penalty actually is? Do rangers write tickets or something?

Careful what you wish for......... as I understand it, about 60% of Tasmania's funding comes from the Commonwealth. ....... might be best to keep quite on this one just in case those pesky mainlanders decide it is unfair that they are charged for walking the track, considering that they paid for a lot of it

[geoskid]

@SoaB - A Parks Pass does'nt equate to a fee to walk a specific track. It allows entry. There is no fee to walk the Arm River Track.
That a fee is required to walk the OT, does'nt suggest there should be a fee to walk every track.

[creeping_moses]

The one thing I dont like is that Tasmanians seem to get triple charged via the Overland Track booking fee, PWS charges and State taxes. That's a large sum of money for one person to walk one trail... I understand that all others must still pay the PWS charges, but for tax-paying Tasmanians to walk the so called "premier walking experience" in their own state (that is managed by a department of the State government that they fund) at such a large cost to the walker is rather dubious in my opinion.

In regards to just flouting the laws/rules, I've always wondered what the penalty actually is? Do rangers write tickets or something?

Careful what you wish for......... as I understand it, about 60% of Tasmania's funding comes from the Commonwealth. ....... might be best to keep quite on this one just in case those pesky mainlanders decide it is unfair that they are charged for walking the track, considering that they paid for a lot of it

haha, yeah indeed, Tassie isn't exactly an economic powerhouse, but I'd rather live here than WA!

Tasmania recieves a proportionally greater amount of GST revenue for a number of reasons (most importantly due the horizontal fiscal imbalance and the notions of equity surrounding this). What also happens is that the funding that is redistibuted in order to quell the massive vertical fiscal imbalance (ie. The Cwth recieving 82% of all taxes over state governments15% (3% go to local governments) - yet states must on average pay for over 40% of services) is exclusively done so under S96 of the constitution through tied grants, or to use the modern term special purpose payments (SPPs). As the name suggests, the Cwth dictates what the money is spent on and this must be agreed to before the money changes hands. The largest single SPP is Medicare, and in Tasmania the distribution of SPPs is contested ground. I would be interested to know how much SPP (Cwth) money PWS actually gets! I would bet on it being very minimal!

[wayno]

what do the tracks get maintained by humans or machines?
NZ DOC policy was humans, average person can build eight metres of track a day here.
there was a massive avalanche that wiped out a couple of k's of the kepler track, it was such a mess, the Doc area manager agreed to get a mini digger in and it sorted the track in no time. after that they changed their policy and will use them when its effective. thats how they build new track over the upper caples.
machinery as been used on the milford track for some time.
decades ago he nz govt treated spending on parks tracks and huts as an investment to the health of nzers. development took off.
why limit access to tracks by charging a fee to access a park? if you're turning people off exercising especially when they cant afford to pay for it then you're going to pay down the line with extra health charges?
when i was a teenager without any cash i never had to weigh up if i could afford this track or that track as long as i could get to the track then i was fine, although doc later put in hut fees and started upgrading huts and charging more for the upgraded huts, still they are pretty cheap, some backpackers use them as their main source of accommodation when touring the country. still if you've got a tarp or tent you can still enter the parks for nothing...
mind you when you get tracks like the overland track where there's no shortage of people queuing up to walk them then you can use the track like a cash cow.
thats how the milford tack used to be treated, you could only walk it as part of a guided walk paying a premium for it, it took a revolt amongst freedom trampers invading the track to overturn the policy... only now you get fleeced for the boat ride run by a monopoly.... $110 which is pretty sad for those who cant stretch for the extra money. also the milford is one of the few tracks where you can't camp, another nail in the coffin for those on a budget. however if you have a kayak or a dinghy its easy to get to the end of the track.
, unless enough people protest what they dont like, the powers that be can do what they like with popular tracks,
the routeburn track has just had the capacity for guided walkers doubled with no increase in freedom walker no's, theres more money in it for DOC..
i guess as you get older you're more likely to gravitate to whatever well kept tracks are around and if you've paid your taxes for decades and you find yourself forced onto tracks that attract ever higher fees, it can rankle.

[geoskid]

I wonder whether people that live in close proximity to a National Park have a misguided idea of privileged entitlement over other Australians, perhaps through use of the 'Backyard ' metaphor.
Perhaps non 'local' Australians should start refering to the Cradle Mt- Lk St Clair NP as their Holiday House.

I think we have it pretty good in Tasmania. 1 fee for 1 track, with quite workable 'guidelines' for use.

[stepbystep]

I wonder whether people that live in close proximity to a National Park have a misguided idea of privileged entitlement over other Australians, perhaps through use of the 'Backyard ' metaphor.
Perhaps non 'local' Australians should start refering to the Cradle Mt- Lk St Clair NP as their Holiday House.

I think we have it pretty good in Tasmania. 1 fee for 1 track, with quite workable 'guidelines' for use.

Agreed, some people feel more entitled than others due to their geography. I just feel lucky.

[Son of a Beach]

One post a little earlier suggested that it wasn't their geography, but their taxes.

[geoskid]

It would be interesting to see an estimate of the amount of a Tax Payers' state taxes that contributed to the coffers of Parks, then an estimate of how much of that could be portioned to the OT.
I don't know, but I doubt it would amount to enough to justify a sense of entitlement to an exemption or reduction in the fee to walk the OT.

[Ent]

Simple fact is a cash strapped State Government will seek revenue from any source. Every few years new fees appear, increased charges apply along with restrictions and we are told it is a good thing. O'well there are always people happy to accept things from the government. Hell even the Nazis were voted in. So for fee for walking what is the purpose of a two year park pass again? Oh yes to raise revenue.

Regards.

[geoskid]

Hehe, Godwins Law holds true again.

[Son of a Beach]

Yeah, I doubt that very much of the parks fees actually go into parks.

[Turfa]

Hehe, Godwins Law holds true again.

That's the kind of thing Hitler would have said

[tastrax]

Yeah, I doubt that very much of the parks fees actually go into parks.

http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/index.aspx?base=8622

[Son of a Beach]

I think PWS do well with what they get, for the most part. But I do wonder what percentage of the collected fees they get to work with. How much money is actually made from parks fees?

Anyhow I'd be happy to be wrong