Down coat with waterproof outer layer

[Robbo]

Does anyone have know about the availability and likely cost of waterproof down jackets? I am looking to purchase a jacket that packs small, is relatively light, and is warm around camp at night and in the morning. Any information or personal experience would be helpful. I have been unable to find any information on this topic elsewhere on the list.

Thanks

Tony Robinson

[Joe]

WaterPROOF....no

Water Resistant....maybe. The Mont one has HydronautXT outer...which is not bad for rain showers...but the thing is down puffers aren't really designed to wear as waterproof layer. A good Waterproof jacket is just that....no more no less.

http://mont.com.au/index/hydronautext

Some info there on it. I have the Mont Merlin jacket and love it...i cant seem to take it off....

[NickD]

Hyrdronaut XT, MD's Storm Loft & the expensive Gore branded DRY-LOFT are waterproof laminates for down jackets. However they do not seam seal these products, mainly because I think that it would be an extremely tricky thing to do.
If you use Seam Tape on garments, it means that the whole area of Seam Tape is non-breathable. As there is more seams in a down jacket than you could poke a stick at, your jacket with sealed seams wouldn't be very breathable, therefore sweat would wet your down anyways.
It also cost a lot of moolah.
Some brands may do it, but I know the ones we sell @ the shop i work at, certainly don't have sealed seams!

[alex]

hydronaute xt is supposedly (im not really sure) waterproof as a fabric, but the mont jackets are not seam sealed. TWF is right, they are not meant as an outer layer in wet conditions, but a waterproof shell does help for when you get caught out, light showers, or simply for protection against condensation/dampness while bushwalking.

Mont icicle - unisex, baffle construction, BIG hood, good high end jacket ~$395
Mont Merlin/Mystic - mens/womens, sewn through in places, no hood, travel/3 season type jacket ~$339

Available in hobart from Jolly Swagmans and Mt Creek Outdoors, maybe others i dont know.

Obviously there are other jackets available but i dont know them so wont comment.
(i bought an icicle before i worked in any gear shops so i think im fine talking about them...)

[Nuts]

You can get down parka's- waterproof down/ filled but I carn't imagine why you wouldn't want the option to separate the two.

[Robbo]

Thanks guys.

Water resistant rather than waterproof would have been a better choice of words. I have a MD Meridian jacket, but I'm looking for something to wear, as I mentioned, around camp after the walking is done and that will keep somewhat dry if it isn't too wet.

Thanks again

Tony Robinson

[alliecat]

Thanks guys.

Water resistant rather than waterproof would have been a better choice of words. I have a MD Meridian jacket, but I'm looking for something to wear, as I mentioned, around camp after the walking is done and that will keep somewhat dry if it isn't too wet.

Thanks again

Tony Robinson

Well, I would suggest a really lightweight "showerproof" jacket or "windshirt". I have a Montane Litespeed that is absolutely wonderful. I wear it while walking and it keeps even quite heavy rain off for an hour or 2 before the seams leak; in light rain it will go all day without a problem. At night I put on a synthetic insulated vest or jacket and throw the litespeed over the top - instant water resistant warmth. Works well over a fleece too. I find the combination of fleece + windshirt is almost as warm as an insulate jacket. Worth thinking about IMHO.

Cheers,
Alliecat

[strewthm8]

Robbo....I just shouted myself a Montane 'Anti Freeze' for my birthday....just under $300 at 'backpacking light' in Melb (they do ebay too) but i checked around on the net (about $200-250 from o/s + postage..so i bought locally) and on forums etc and they get a great rap...800 loft...410 grams...supposed to be w'proof for 1.5 hours and rated at 1200mm head. Really comfortable to wear- don't feel bulky at all. Haven't given it a run in the bush yet...but not far off. Oh, and they come with a compression sack. Someone talked about them on this site somewhere a little while ago (I think).....but check out for yourself too.. good luck.

[Robbo]

but check out for yourself too.

Thanks for the tip, strewthm8. Will check it out.

Tony Robinson

[Joe]

I think the thing with nearly all the down puffers ive seen is that they arent tape seam sealed...so even if they have waterproof shell fabric or whatever breed they will all eventually let you down around the stitching, which with this style of garment is quite substantial with all the 'baffles' for down...my mont got thoroughly wet today in the rain we had in burnie and no water got through. was great....water beaded on jacket, quick shake like a dog and i was dry

[strewthm8]

Yes....I guess time will tell...but I suspect you're right...I actually bought mine for warmth not for water-proofness...can't rely on sales pitch or marketing info when it comes to how water-proof a product is- too important in my view...so I'll keep packing my goretex xcr coat for keeping me as dry as possible- it works for me!... I'm using the down jacket to replace polar fleece for around camp/at night etc generally while I'm not walking- or in the sleeping bag if its really cold!!...I reckon that having a degree of water-proofness is good- even if its just to protect the down fill- but won't be using it as rain protection in a downpour.... Anyway I'll see how it goes....it's been great in the cold wind you taswegians have been chucking at us here in Melb today !!! cheers...

[Nuts]

Hey, I'ts an awesome day in Tas!

For others- I have found the European stuff dear. Lot's of US companies (Golite, NF, Marmot, WM....),make the same thing. Saw the North Face 850 fill jacket for $84 somewhere. So @ say $25 postage plus say 85% exchange -that's around $130au (roughly)...

[Joe]

Yes....I guess time will tell...but I suspect you're right...I actually bought mine for warmth not for water-proofness...can't rely on sales pitch or marketing info when it comes to how water-proof a product is- too important in my view...so I'll keep packing my goretex xcr coat for keeping me as dry as possible- it works for me!... I'm using the down jacket to replace polar fleece for around camp/at night etc generally while I'm not walking- or in the sleeping bag if its really cold!!...I reckon that having a degree of water-proofness is good- even if its just to protect the down fill- but won't be using it as rain protection in a downpour.... Anyway I'll see how it goes....it's been great in the cold wind you taswegians have been chucking at us here in Melb today !!! cheers...

the added bonus with the waterproof outerlayer is that nearly all the good ones are also windproof...which means that they dont let the warm air out either...in both bags and jackets this is a big bonus

For others- I have found the European stuff dear. Lot's of US companies (Golite, NF, Marmot, WM....),make the same thing. Saw the North Face 850 fill jacket for $84 somewhere. So @ say $25 postage plus say 85% exchange -that's around $130au (roughly)...

We have seen a couple of garments in work just this week that are "north face" that have been bought off net. They are cheap imitations that are no where near the quality of the real garments. One bloke was spewing because his northface goretex jacket he got real cheap from internet was actually crappy thin syl/nylon which tore on first outing...so caveat emptor folks

[corvus]

Just a comment if I have missed it TNF gear cannot be shipped to OZ last time I checked .

[Nuts]

Year, It's one of those things with a steep learning curve, if you look at the brand website, the copies usually look nothing like the originals. North Face copies are everywhere on ebay, easy to tell though. NF and the others usually have links to their registered internet 'on-sellers'. From there do a search for coupon codes for another 10-20%off

Corvus, check Backcountryoutlet.com (look at the price of those redpoint jackets...) They Will still ship!

[backpackinglight]

For others- I have found the European stuff dear. Lot's of US companies (Golite, NF, Marmot, WM....),make the same thing.

Some of the most highly technical gear is being developed in Europe. Save those pennies and do lots of research.

[nickward]

This thread seems well and truly ended, but I just stumbled across it and thought I might add something.
I got a cheap downie about 7 years ago from my local outdoor shop. Waterproof outer layer (perhaps not truly "waterproof" but I've worn it in sleet for a few days at a time without the down getting wet), seam-sealed and cheap. From memory, cost was around $100.
I've not seen them before or since, but the brand is XDYE. No doubt not made to the standard of better brands ($100 after all), but it's been used as a jacket for around camps on rafting trips and has had 3-4 months worth of skiing (including many a crash onto rocks, ice, delightfully spiny scaparia and into pine trees) without showing any damage.
I've put it in a sleeping bag compression sack and you can make it pretty compact. Only downside is the weight, probably closing in on 1kg.
Have tried to find them again since without success, and even if this is no help to anyone here, if anyone has encountered them recently, I'd love to know where.

[Joe]

At that weight and price you can guarantee that its more feather than down. Feathers add bulk and weight but very little in thermal efficiency. Good quality down is like feathery gold when it comes to price.

[sthughes]

Or synthetic down? Would explain it's performance in damp conditions.

[nickward]

Definitely non-synthetic (get it wet from the inside and you'll really notice it) but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a reasonable amount of feather with the down. At that cost there had to be some compromise in it. But it's more than warm enough in -20.

[hax12]

Can I get this down coat in UK???/I want to know the detail about availability..!!!