$1 a Gram to reduce pack weight

[under10kg]

I was looking at some new gear to reduce my current pack weight and it would cost me about $870 for a savings of 810 gms!

Tent tarp Moment tent 850 gms to a lighter Six Moon Skyscape X at 425 gms
G4 pack at 473 gms to Zpack 235 gms
Parka event 274 gms to Zpack breaveable cuben 127 gms

Old gear 1597 gm
New gear 787 gm
Difference 810 gm
Cost $450+$225+$195 total is $870

Is this worth it??? Smaller tent and a not so breathable parka.
I could loose 2 kg to 3 kg from my weight by eating a bit less!!!

[Strider]

Drop the kids off at the pool before you leave!

[wayno]

depends how much you can spare the money, the longer the trip the more weight saving counts,
how comfortable will the pack be? i tried a lightweight pack, when i loaded it up, it was uncomfortable, the minimalist belt sagged and didnt spread the load, it wasnt worth the discomfort in the end, i prefered something more supportive, it didnt iritate me and spread the load better less pressure points... more enjoyable walk....

[ninjapuppet]

$1 per gram saved. Thats generally the same guideline I've used in the past.

Sometimes when I've thought about upgrading to a new item, a quick mental calculation is all thats needed to decide if i should look further into it or not.
There have been many times when I've thought, gee, it'd be good to have that new pack. but it would only save 60 grams at a cost of $200 and cant really add any new capabilities so I didnt go ahead with getting it.
if the weight savings come at a cost of significant decreased performance, then you should really do your research to see if it's suitable

* keep in mind your "old gear" can still command some pretty respectable salvage values which can offset your gear upgrade

[under10kg]

i tried a lightweight pack, when i loaded it up, it was uncomfortable

Yes I agree with you but this depends on the pack weight for me. If you have super light gear I find a non frame pack is fine at under 5kg or so.
When I do a 10 day or longer walk I take a super comfortable Aarn pack with balance front pockets.

I think the latest in light weight packs have a better hip belt system than my G4 pack which is pretty useless.

I took a look at the gear for a coming larapinta track walk and it came to about 3kg or so total without food and water. Gee, most people in my bushwalking club take more than this on day walks!

[Rico]

I think it is all very relative. I know of people getting a 10 year loan to buy a new couch that they cannot afford and they don't need, which is ok if they think it is worth it.
810g will not make a huge difference walking the Larapinta, it may be more important in a cold weather walk where you are already overloaded, but it is not $870 important in a desert walk with water sources every 2-3 days. Still, you also know that the ability to walk with a base weight of 3kg will put a smile on your face the whole walk, and you will be giggling like a school girl every time you'll overtake a sweaty hiker with a 25kg bag on his shoulders

[under10kg]

you will be giggling like a school girl every time you'll overtake a sweaty hiker with a 25kg bag on his shoulders

My problem is that I take pity on the single women that have a 25kg pack. The things I do for a ....

[Rico]

you will be giggling like a school girl every time you'll overtake a sweaty hiker with a 25kg bag on his shoulders

My problem is that I take pity on the single women that have a 25kg pack. The things I do for a ....

Exactly my point... it is all relative to what makes you happy!!!

[ILUVSWTAS]

Drop the kids off at the pool before you leave!

Snigger... poo jokes. Love it.

[Nuts]

Another way to look at it would be to start with nothing and spend a $1 a gram to ADD weight..

[Tony]

Another way to look at it would be to start with nothing and spend a $1 a gram to ADD weight..

Hi Nuts,

An interesting way of looking at it, I just compared the grams per $ for the Macpac cascade 65 pack (A$550rrp) and the Jam 70 liter pack (US$180rrp = A$175), using the recommended retail prices they come out the same value for weight, the Macpac cascade 65 comes out at 5 grams per A$ and the Jam 70 liter pack comes out at 5 grams per A$, if the sale prices are used, Macpac cascade 65 pack (A$330) the cascade comes out at 8.33 grams per $ and the am 70 liter pack (US$120=A$116.5) comes out at 7.3 grams per $, the Cascade is better value weight for $.

Conclusion, we should all go and get the Cascade on sale.

Tony

[Nuts]

Ha.. I knew someone would see a fatal flaw.. What about the Jam on sale? lol either way they cant possible be good enough, neither is $1 per gram.. (weight bought rather than weight saved)
Maybe your figures could just serve to point out that it doesn't Really need to be anywhere near $1 a gram to get a respectably lightweight kit? Or even whether an item or feature is needed at all is the best way to go lighter? (btw i was looking at a new model Jam yesterday, they look a lot more high tech (and comfortable) these days..).

[Tony]

Ha.. I knew someone would see a fatal flaw.. What about the Jam on sale? lol either way they cant possible be good enough, neither is $1 per gram.. (weight bought rather than weight saved)
Maybe your figures could just serve to point out that it doesn't Really need to be anywhere near $1 a gram to get a respectably lightweight kit? Or even whether an item or feature is needed at all is the best way to go lighter? (btw i was looking at a new model Jam yesterday, they look a lot more high tech (and comfortable) these days..).

Hi Nuts,

My figures were to serve a point, If we compare the Zpacks Blast 58 liter pack. 235 grams at US$195 (A$189) we get 1.24 grams per A$ which is closer to $1 per gram.

With the Jam, I have an old Jam2 50l which I have lightened a bit and it is now sub 600g, the new Jam 50 is much heavier 850g now, but as you have mentioned they are probably more comfortable, I do not use my Jam2 much these days as I was given a Lightwave ultrahike pack (1.25 kg) and I liked it so much I tend to use it most of the time, it is one of those packs that fit my back really well and I often do not even know it is on my back.

Tony

[Orion]

Another way to look at it would be to start with nothing and spend a $1 a gram to ADD weight..

It is usually less expensive to buy heavier gear so there is a cost differential to go light weight, whether you already own the heavier gear or not. Another aspect that is not being considered is that lightweight gear is less durable. I have a pack that I bought for $99 in 1987 that I've used a zillion times and I still use it. It may outlast me. But the $180 lightweight pack I bought last year had some stitching blow on its very first outing. The cost per gram per day of use for this item is a lot higher.

That said, after trying to cut things off a pack I already owned I bought that new one and trimmed additional weight at a rate of less than $0.50 per gram. Then I made a tent and the cost of materials worked out to a savings of less than $0.20 per gram over my other tent. I considered buying a lighter sleeping bag as well but it would have been about $2 per gram saved -- too much!

[Nuts]

That is a nice looking pack Tony.

Yer, I guess U10 is looking at it from the point of already owning the gear and therefore (especially at NP's 'salvage' rates.. ) will be loosing money (even though it will offset some of the cost).

I'm still working on getting a packraft/ 10/12 days food Into a OP Vertex (38L) (and arguably as tough as packs come) with the least amount of compromise.. I do like a few gadgets.. (It looks like around 18/19kg atm). More focussed compact than light..

I see heavyweight gear suggested for new walkers (and a pack harness to suit) but to me it's neither here nor there in saving money. It doesn't take long before stuff is being sold off to start loosing weight.. and so it begins.. I guess the biggest expense is lightweight down and the hardest to swallow compromise (besides multi-use or carrying 'less') is in shelters. Perhaps for/already covered in other topics.

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

I guess I shouldn't tell you my next purchase (Tarptent Stratospire 2) will save me 1.9kg and cost $350.

It seems my grams are 5x cheaper than yours

However, the lighter you get, the more expensive it becomes. I think about $1 per gram would be about as far as I would be prepared to go.

[Tony]

It is usually less expensive to buy heavier gear so there is a cost differential to go light weight, whether you already own the heavier gear or not. Another aspect that is not being considered is that lightweight gear is less durable. I have a pack that I bought for $99 in 1987 that I've used a zillion times and I still use it. It may outlast me. But the $180 lightweight pack I bought last year had some stitching blow on its very first outing. The cost per gram per day of use for this item is a lot higher.

That said, after trying to cut things off a pack I already owned I bought that new one and trimmed additional weight at a rate of less than $0.50 per gram. Then I made a tent and the cost of materials worked out to a savings of less than $0.20 per gram over my other tent. I considered buying a lighter sleeping bag as well but it would have been about $2 per gram saved -- too much!

Hi Orion,

You have brought up some good points, in the long run it is probably cheaper to buy traditional heavy weight long lasting gear, but as I look at things enjoyment of bushwalking is my number one priority and to me having less weight on my back is the way to go, though I do think the endurance of LW gear is under rated, in my experience if you look after your LW gear it can last many years.

Hi Nuts,

That is a nice looking pack Tony.

Yer, I guess U10 is looking at it from the point of already owning the gear and therefore (especially at NP's 'salvage' rates.. ) will be loosing money (even though it will offset some of the cost).

I am very happy with my Ultrahike 60, while it is well made, as with many things it has some weaknesses, while the body of the pack is strong the side pockets are very weak and I have torn them a few times, most of the the pack seams are glued the pack is supposed to be water resistant but I have not found this to be so and the water proof coating on the throat delaminated, I did contact the Lightwave company with this problem but as I had received the pack as part of a backpacking pack survey they would not replace it. Lightwave also told me that the pack was not designed for Australian conditions and if sold here it would have to be beefed up a bit, they would sew the seams instead of gluing.

I do understand what U10Kg was saying, it is expensive to upgrade especially when chasing those last few grams, but in reality bushwalking is a cheap interest, try doing motor sport (which I have done in the past, I used to spend more money on one race than I do per year bushwalking) or ocean sailing, I spend more money on my road biking every year and I certainly spend more money on coffee every year, the thousand dollars needed to upgrade your gear every year or two or three is not really a lot of money.

Tony

[wayno]

every gram on your feet uses the same energy as carrying eight on your pack, if you can shave a hundred grams off your footwear you will have done the equivalent of what you want to do, and i doubt the shoes will cost as much

[mattmacman]

Are you selling any of that, I may be interested.

[under10kg]

every gram on your feet uses the same energy as carrying eight on your pack, if you can shave a hundred grams off your footwear you will have done the equivalent of what you want to do, and i doubt the shoes will cost as much

Yes my runners weight 220gms and I do not want to go lighter into the new minimal super light as I have found my feet are sore with the lack of cushening. I did notice research on runners that found being bare foot used more energy than a light runner. Somoething to do with the cushening.

[forest]

every gram on your feet uses the same energy as carrying eight on your pack, if you can shave a hundred grams off your footwear you will have done the equivalent of what you want to do, and i doubt the shoes will cost as much

How true that is but beware !!

I wouldn't want to be wearing runners still with a 25kg pack, I think Boots are still needed above a certain packweight (or at least shoes with some support). I feel you need to be at least under the 13-15kg total pack weight to do runners.
Under 10kgs and the runners are a dream.

I'm not game to try this $1 per gram math thing...... I think I would cry as I have a knack of spending (wasting) money on gear to shave weight.

I do find lighter much more enjoyable and like others have said, It's not all paper thin and lasts one walk. Some of my UL gear is 2 years old now and has seen some harsh use, Still going strong.
Some has even suprised me with what it will take, Like really suprised me, as in.... should be dead but isn't.

[under10kg]

I totally agree with you about the durability of light weight gear. It is better than you think. But the only bit of super light weight gear I have that just got trashed on one walk is a poly prop jack and over pants. One trip on the westurn arthurs really did some damange. Usable but duct tape in a few places. Just not durable for other than a track walk.

[choppo]

guys i'v spent a few bucks over the years getting a nice light set up that works for me(about 12 kg for a non snow weekend) . the trick is take what you need and nothing more(but of that get the best you can afford or you will just wast cash on the crap and end up replacing it latter with the good stuff), and just think people have suffered worse for longer, it's just a weekend. That said my wife got me a flash new full size down sleeping matt for xmas. at first all i could think 800g thats so heavy, next to my short thermarest 300g but the better nights sleep is well worth the extra weight i love this thing.

[wayno]

yeah i wouldnt go overboard on lightening the footwear either if you've got a bit of pack weight,
i find i need some torsional rigidity in the sole to prevent sore feet. doesnt necessarily mean having to have boots as some shoes can have that rigidity. juset depends on someones preference and whether they want the ankle support, i ususally at least wear mid height boots to help reduce wnkle sprains and strain on the feet. also reduces water getting in when crossing streams.

[Moondog55]

I can think of a few situations where getting something lighter would also be cheaper if it is a long time since your last gear purchase.
Most new gear uses lighter but cheaper and stronger fabrics and materials then the very best of 20 years ago, and market pressure keeps most bigger manufacturers from out-pricing their target market.
There is a huge difference between normal light-weight camping and the gram-weeinies, if talking about going nano-light then even a dollar a gram may not be enough.
Then we get to the long distance crowd where comfort may be more important than going too light and the baseload takes a back seat to cutting down the weight of food and fuel as a priority, how many times can you use a teabag before throwing it away

[Gusto]

Don't limit yourself to the big items.

http://www.qiwiz.net/trowels.html The titanium poo shovel here is pretty light. the big one is 17grams cost is about $40 with postage. My plastic shovel is advertised as being 84grams and probably cost about $10. The weight saving in terms of dollars better than $1 per gram in this case. All that said, I rekon my plastic trowel would be more comfortable to hold.

[ninjapuppet]

hmmm $40 is alot to pay for a poo shovel.
Much cheaper to grab a biffy bag http://www.biffybag.com/how-it-works.htm

but the weight, and the thought of carrying back one's faeces is not for everyone....

[walkinTas]

Make it solid = poo powder (100 uses about $60.00) 20g per turn
Collect and wrap = doggie doo bags (100 bags about $20.00)
ultra light cloth to spread on the ground = an Ekko cloth. (100 clothes about $20.00)
Odor free, leak proof, air tight, zip lock bag = LokSak OPSak (depends on size - about $18.00+ for 3 - reusable).





Use one or two Ekko cloths spread on the ground (in a broad shallow scooped hole is best), then sprinkle deposit with p-p and wrap. Collect into a doggy doo bag. Store in a leak proof, smell proof bag for transport. Carry a disposable glove if you are precious about handling the waste, but the doggy bag is a glove anyway.