Lightweight Shelters [Split]

[ninjapuppet]

Edit: Split off from Home alone: not the movie

Nuts, ive been drooling over those MLD bivvies for a while to cut weight.

especially that last one http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/index.php?cPath=22

which model bivy/tarp/groundsheet are you using?
so you've used them in tassie with no major issues?

Doesnt look like you can sit up in that marmot, so you might aswell go down to a lightweight bivy, or go up to a lightweight tent.

[Nuts]

I have the MLD bivy with the event footbox. I have spent a few nights in bivys on their own but not a preferred option.
I'd rather use the bivy as a cover (condensation, bugs etc) and use a fly/shell also. Have used an integral designs small siltarp and tyvek (all up bivy, tarp, g/sheet would be 6/700g..) but have a few small shelter options now. Six Moon (around 500g)/ Golite Shangri-la (700 something). I prefer these pole shelters, easy to setup, more weatherproof and (eg golite) much bigger than one person tents. With the golite/bivy/tyvek makes a huge (walk in) 4 season shelter at around 1.2/3kg that doesnt really need a set floorspace (other than somewhere person sized) to pitch, or just the bivy in a pinch.. Ill probably modify the six moon shelter (Oasis i think its called?) at some stage to make it more 4 season (tie points, elastic on the mesh skirt to pull it in under the tyvek.. etc..) this would give a Really lightweight 4 season option for anywhere but the most exposed locations imo..

Lots of people shy away from single skin shelters but im not convinced (as mentioned before) ime the condensation is still there, just harder to see. The tipi tents seem to shed any down the inside anyhow not drip it all on to you..

The MLD bivy seems well made. I got the large one and takes me n neoair inside. Little mesh window for air...

[Nuts]

This bivy:
http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/sh ... ucts_id=30

These shelters:

http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/tarps.htm ... egory_id=8

http://www.golite.com/Product/ProdDetai ... 54&t=&lat=

[walkinTas]

What experience have you had with these?

[Nuts]

Perhaps 150 nights in the golite, not much with that particular bivy or the other shelter yet.. (a few nights here n there)...

[walkinTas]

I actually meant were they good, useful, useless, comfortable, cold, cramped????? Probably should have used the plural!

But anyway, thanks for the list. They certainly are light, but as I said above a bivvy isn't for me. And I'm probably not after a hootchie - that pole in the middle would annoy me. I'd like something with a floor, I'd like to be able to sit up, and I'd prefer to have the option of bringing my pack inside. And light enough & small enough to put in my day pack.

[Nuts]

ahhh experienceS...

then i should have finished with 'what exactly would you like to know'?

I guess it all depends on comfort levels, personally, the best/ most memorable nights sleeping ive had have been in a bivy... In nice weather just under the stars, in winter all closed up n cozy

i Would be the type to feel claustrophobic but just don't really in a bivy, the one mentioned above opens far enough that it just feels and works more like a sleeping bag cover. Most times, unless its really cold or wet i just end up sleeping on top using them as a bit of protection under the sleeping mat.

I like carrying them also, not just for the weight (that one ^^ is somewhere in the low 200's gramwise, which i expect is just about compensated by being able to carry a lighter more breathable (and cheaper) sleeping bag (ie i think that carrying one is no less convenient than not....) but also for knowing that you can just lie down anywhere (in a pinch)...

Iv'e then come around to thinking that if thats one 'layer' then in all but the better weather for cooking, comfort, company some sort of bigger 'space' is needed. I use a walking pole so no need to carry any tent poles. The tipis (the golite one at least) has a full inner tent (mesh/floor) but i only used it a couple of times preferring just a groundsheet (tyvek or plastic). What I will probably do with the golite is to set it up with a sewn on mesh 'skirt' like the MLD (^^^) then I'm thinking of an oversized tyvek floor attached with press studs.

The golite is rated at 4 season, ive been in some pretty strong gusts many times and snow several times. Not that its such a drama, if the thing did collapse there is still the bivy (i'd likely clear a breathing spot and go back to sleep) It stands around 175/180 so is almost 'walk in', 2/3 sleeping, 4/5 (in a squeeze) sitting.

The pole isnt a problem, it can (or a walking stick with the extender) be angled far enough over to the side in either shelter.

The MLD is smaller, it is rated at 3 season though with a few more attachment points I expect it would be almost as capable as the golite. An ultralight solo tent, this one packs down to about the size of a 1L milk bottle.

In this way (excluding the bivy), i'd estimate the carried weight for MLD to add maybe 600 grams and the golite perhaps 900... 4 season, safe, comfortable and relatively inexpensive choices.

HOWEVER, seeing as how they aren't your thing (.....), I hope this helps someone

[Jellybean]

ahhh experienceS...

then i should have finished with 'what exactly would you like to know'?

I guess it all depends on comfort levels, personally, the best/ most memorable nights sleeping ive had have been in a bivy... In nice weather just under the stars, in winter all closed up n cozy

i Would be the type to feel claustrophobic but just don't really in a bivy, the one mentioned above opens far enough that it just feels and works more like a sleeping bag cover. Most times, unless its really cold or wet i just end up sleeping on top using them as a bit of protection under the sleeping mat.

I like carrying them also, not just for the weight (that one ^^ is somewhere in the low 200's gramwise, which i expect is just about compensated by being able to carry a lighter more breathable (and cheaper) sleeping bag (ie i think that carrying one is no less convenient than not....) but also for knowing that you can just lie down anywhere (in a pinch)...

Iv'e then come around to thinking that if thats one 'layer' then in all but the better weather for cooking, comfort, company some sort of bigger 'space' is needed. I use a walking pole so no need to carry any tent poles. The tipis (the golite one at least) has a full inner tent (mesh/floor) but i only used it a couple of times preferring just a groundsheet (tyvek or plastic). What I will probably do with the golite is to set it up with a sewn on mesh 'skirt' like the MLD (^^^) then I'm thinking of an oversized tyvek floor attached with press studs.

The golite is rated at 4 season, ive been in some pretty strong gusts many times and snow several times. Not that its such a drama, if the thing did collapse there is still the bivy (i'd likely clear a breathing spot and go back to sleep) It stands around 175/180 so is almost 'walk in', 2/3 sleeping, 4/5 (in a squeeze) sitting.

The pole isnt a problem, it can (or a walking stick with the extender) be angled far enough over to the side in either shelter.

The MLD is smaller, it is rated at 3 season though with a few more attachment points I expect it would be almost as capable as the golite. An ultralight solo tent, this one packs down to about the size of a 1L milk bottle.

In this way (excluding the bivy), i'd estimate the carried weight for MLD to add maybe 600 grams and the golite perhaps 900... 4 season, safe, comfortable and relatively inexpensive choices.

HOWEVER, seeing as how they aren't your thing (.....), I hope this helps someone

Helps me, thanks Nuts! (I quite like the thought of the SMD Wild Oasis or something similar when I want a lightweight option with a bit more protection!)

My current lightweight option is a Ti Goat Ptarmigan bivvy ( http://www.titaniumgoat.com/Bivy.html ) with a full net hood and side zip - total 198g - great bivvy! - plus a GG Polycro groundsheet (only 43g and tough!) and an ID Siltarp (200g or 400g depending on size) if there is rain around.

I also expected to find the bivvy claustrophobic but don't at all.

Nuts, a few questions if I may re the Wild Oasis:
1. How tall are you?
2. Have you used your Neo in it? (Regular size?)
3. If so, did you find your feet (and/or head) touched the end of the shelter? (I read somewhere were they are great shelters but not so good if you're over 6').
4. Does the netting act like a bit of a wick if the ground is wet? (Or does your groundsheet prevent that?)

Thanks!

Cheers,

JB

[Nuts]

Hi JB, Im about 5'10... The Oasis is a minimalist shelter, while I havent taken any measurements it feels similar to the Akto or Scarp outer/fly sizewise, i'll pitch it again when i get a chance and have a closer look at measurements. It didnt 'feel' too bad, keep in mind that I have only used it a couple of times and not in any heavy weather yet. I did read a comment about water soaked mesh and breathability. I was thinking that if i had a problem with this (and when I do similar with the golite) I'll sew some elastic into the bottom (so it pulls the mesh in, under a groundsheet and by default keeps it taught). (Also read about the Oasis collapsing, thinking some extra tie downs will help there..) I really like the golite shelter and it is a preference but i too am just trying to get as light as comfortably possible.

Someone asked for a review when i mentioned the Oasis (and Nemo) shelters before. As I dont do that many solo walks (and it can take many to get a good idea of these things) it may be a while, but i'll post again about them. All I can really say at this stage is that they are well made, no real issues there.

The bivy you linked too looks like a good option, definitely very light that setup! I spent a night in my OR bivy last week, was the odd shower.. I had a great nights sleep, something I always notice... Bivy alone, whilst the lightest option and fine in good weather, would be a chore though unless the weather stayed stable (hard to pick down here).

hmm, sorry wTas, I seem to have made this a thread about lightweight shelters somehow I'll find the other one at some stage and moderate myself!

[Jellybean]

Hi JB, Im about 5'10... The Oasis is a minimalist shelter, while I havent taken any measurements it feels similar to the Akto or Scarp outer/fly sizewise, i'll pitch it again when i get a chance and have a closer look at measurements. It didnt 'feel' too bad, keep in mind that I have only used it a couple of times and not in any heavy weather yet. I did read a comment about water soaked mesh and breathability. I was thinking that if i had a problem with this (and when I do similar with the golite) I'll sew some elastic into the bottom (so it pulls the mesh in, under a groundsheet and by default keeps it taught). (Also read about the Oasis collapsing, thinking some extra tie downs will help there..) I really like the golite shelter and it is a preference but i too am just trying to get as light as comfortably possible.

Someone asked for a review when i mentioned the Oasis (and Nemo) shelters before. As I dont do that many solo walks (and it can take many to get a good idea of these things) it may be a while, but i'll post again about them. All I can really say at this stage is that they are well made, no real issues there.

The bivy you linked too looks like a good option, definitely very light that setup! I spent a night in my OR bivy last week, was the odd shower.. I had a great nights sleep, something I always notice... Bivy alone, whilst the lightest option and fine in good weather, would be a chore though unless the weather stayed stable (hard to pick down here).

hmm, sorry wTas, I seem to have made this a thread about lightweight shelters somehow I'll find the other one at some stage and moderate myself!

Thanks Nuts! I was just wondering if the dimensions of the Oasis and the height and length of the full length Neo would result in feet/head of a 6 footer brushing the end of the shelter (I'm 6'1" or 185cm). After a night under my tarp/bivvy in very heavy rain a month or so ago (both held up surprisingly well), I was wondering whether a shelter such as the Oasis (obviously when going solo and weight is a factor) was a better option - quicker to set up and more protection from rain splash. (I also looked at the GG "The One" - http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gos ... e_One.html - seems to be a good shelter - gets good reviews - but definitely for people less than 6').

Yup, in fine weather I love just the bivvy under the stars! Good in winter too because it adds a few degrees to my bag.

Sorry wTas for hijacking your thread (but you have to admit it is an interesting topic!? and .. if you're after something light that will fit in your day pack - then there's a few options to consider here!! ...... Have I justified that sufficiently? ).

Cheers,

JB

[Nuts]

Yep, i'll keep in mind to pitch it and get some useful pics for ya! I need to mow the lawn first...

[ninjapuppet]

once again, sorry wTas for going off topic from your home alone, but heres an excerpt form Ryan Jordons' blog:

http://backpackinglight.typepad.com/weblog/2010/05/the-versatility-of-the-pyramid-as-an-ultralight-shelter.html
"And if you go from a poncho, or a little Cuben Fiber tarp, or a Moment, or a (the?) One, or a Unishelter, or a Firstlight, or a Lunar Solo, or just about anything else that costs more or weighs more or wears out sooner, you just might think you died and gone to heaven and give yourself a good smack on the forehead for not buying into the pyramid cult earlier."

WTas, have you thought about one of these?

He's talking about his little new shelter which resembles Nut's Shangrila. There seems to be a bunch of guys on the lightweight scene moving into ultralite 300 gram shelters, or these Tipi style tents. Me and 5 mates are looking at taking a few different 300 - 400 gram tents to try out in NZ's 2000m mountains for 3 weeks in Nov and will let you know how it goes.

the lightweight tents we're planning on testing are:
GG The one
Hexamid (me)
Gatewood cape

If they fail, theres always huts nearby in nz
maybe u can look at getting something similar if it works well. I'm not afraid to bad mouth a product if it doesnt work but i'm very hopefull. will let you know how it goes if you still looking for a shelter by then.

[Jellybean]

Thanks Nuts!

NP - will be interested to hear your report after your NZ testing!
(Yes, it's lucky there are huts nearby if the weather closes in!). The Gatewood Cape is, as you probably know, very similar to the Oasis mentioned above except that it can also be used as a rain cape (the intention being to save weight by using one item for two purposes). It seems from some of the reports I've read, though, that as a rain cape it makes a very good shelter! Seems to do a great job as a minimalist shelter, not so good as rain wear.

Cheers,

JB

[Nuts]

OK Jellybean... the lawn is mowed... stage 2 soon!

[Jellybean]

Good job! (You could have just left the lawn unmown and angled the shots so that the house, garden etc weren't visible. I would have been none the wiser - just would have thought I was looking at the great Tassie wilderness! )

[Nuts]

Ha, yes, but you want to see the tent! besides, i always need to see what lovely treasures the pooch has left first!

[Jellybean]

Ah yes, best not to find any surprising lumps under the groundsheet!!

.... It's now Friday ..... it must be a VERY big dog .... (or too much PAL??)

[Nuts]

yer, sorry, ive remembered a couple of times during the week but just never got the 5 mins it takes Will do asap!

[Nuts]

dang! now its raining hang tight they take 5/6 weeks to post anyhow..

[Jellybean]

Ah yes, best not to find any surprising lumps under the groundsheet!!

.... It's now Friday ..... it must be a VERY big dog .... (or too much PAL??)

Just joking. No hurry, when you're ready!

[Nuts]

Hi Jellybean, photo in other topic.
Ill reserve more comment for that topic, and ive only spent two nights in good weather so far but if it helps: In short ( ), for the taller timber, I wouldnt expect to stay 'completely' dry in bad weather without a bivy...

[Franco]

From Nuts
'while I havent taken any measurements it feels similar to the Akto or Scarp outer/fly sizewise,"

well...I have.
There is no comparison whatsoever between the Wild Oasis and the Scarp, after all the Scarp is almost 3 times heavier and nearly twice the cost.
However , just to clarify the difference between perception and reality, the Scarp inner has more usable space than the WO, the fly is obviously bigger again.
These pictures should help to see the difference.
For reference my bag is a 6' version on top of a 180cm mat.
The VERTICAL ends of the Scarp inner are 36 cm high, 10 cm in you have 42 cm between the floor and the fly.
Note that nor the inner nor the fly in the Scarp are subject to sagging when wet unlike shelters with unsupported ends.
The yellow pegs holding the red Wild Oasis outline are 267 cm from each other, the height is 112 cm . The WO can be pitched higher , but then you have
gaps at the bottom. Not a bad thing considering condensation....








Note that I have not moved the mat/sleeping bag in shot 2 and 3, the perspective has changed.
BTW, the Contrail also has more usable length than the WO. (again because of the vertical and supported ends)

Franco
([email protected])

[Nuts]

Franco, around this size, as i said, to me they all feel Small...

This is a relative statement and something that i thought someone into lightweight gear, especially with a financial interest, would think twice about jumping on. I had hoped to not get involved in anything else but the Facts of the shelters for discussion and will Hopefully keep it to that in the other topic without needing to continually repeat things. I'm happy to give 'thoughts', discuss levels of experience, defend statements, though i can see it becoming a chore if it is going to start from having to deal with 'attitude' also...

I have no interest in marketing the Oasis or exaggerating any attributes or failings. As I said it also hasnt had much use (obviously by either of us) so i'm undecided how much it will actually get. I have spent enough time under tipi style shelters to have a good idea how various models Should perform. Either way your shelter also isnt advertised as a four season. I dont have any interest in discussing the compromises of tarptents so i'll focus on thoughts about the shelters I do have. If you would like to send down TT's offering I May consider looking at that also ( )

For the sake of the exercise, the two main statements that you are getting across though should be corrected and put in perspective... Increasing height in the Oasis does not leave 'gap' in the 'structure', there is enough mesh to keep going a long way. As it can pivot from the pegs on the windward side it can in fact be left right to the ground on that side as the height increases. Even from your image, anyone can see how little the front would need to do so to exceed the TT in end height.... from using other open base tipi's i can tell you this has no limits, without wind you can pitch even the small ones high enough to walk around under!...

Any loosening of fabric material can be taken up with the twist of a pole...

I have always used a bivy, my current model is around 250g (though i see i'll have to make sure... and i will talk more about that in the other topic). In doing so, safety wise I see the shelter as 'secondary'. As an exercise in reducing weight how much lighter is this combination so far?