Jacket revival: re-waterproofing

[vagrom]

I have a Pallin Vista Goretex XCR, about 8 years old. Costs and weighs too much but very good in off track Tassie walking, i.e: the outer skin has born up tear free after seasons of bush bashing in it.. But water no longer beads on it and hasn't for a while though the jacket still works fine. But the wetting outer presumably adds a little weight and slows drying out.
Is the answer as simple as : 1) run it for 1/2 hour in a medium warm Laundromat tumble drier and then, 2) put it on a hanger and spray it with Nikwax or Graingers (the only 2 brands that i've seen) ?
Someone else must have done it. Are there any caveats? Presumably, repeat process when/where ever beading fails. I'm guessing that the contentious issue of breathability ( "Just how 'breathable' was this fabric anyway, particularly when slogging uphill ? ), fades as more spray is applied; a good reason to go easy with the stuff. Any experience with spray brands and costs?

I've seen lighter weight jackets on big walks (mine weighs 850gms dry), but they turn up with new and interesting jackets on the next walk.

[photohiker]

I'm sure there's a thread for that here somewhere...

Basically, it needs a wash first (Nikwax Techwash or similar)

and then use the spray or wash-in DWR.

Some say that the DWR is rejuvenated by a hot iron or dryer, so you could try a wash and then application of heat - if that still doesn't bead, then hit it with the DWR treatment.

[vagrom]

Thanks Photohiker, I searched under "waterproofing" first.
I'm guessing Techwash and DWR are around $12 each at Scouts. Just thought i'd ask for any range of ideas, especially money saving ones. So many "products"; like having a cupboard full of Amway.
I read an English walking book a while back in which the author counsels thinking long and hard about the need for ever having to wash a down bag at all, as apparently it will never really be as good as it was before. So there's likely other ways to cope with grunge if you turn your mind to it.

[crockle]

I have a Pallin Vista Goretex XCR, about 8 years old.

Have the same jacket - mine possibly around 9 or 10 y.o

Costs and weighs too much but very good in off track...walking..

Agreed. Almost a kilo for a jacket is insane, but sometimes when the going gets rough enough...

But water no longer beads on it and hasn't for a while...

Same. Mine will wet-out all the way through to skin/next layer, given enough time in the rain

Jacket is sitting on the floor here near my computer in a crumpled heap, pending some sort of washing & treatment It's not a priority job. Most recent plan was to wash with a non-detergent type soap , then spray with Nikwax TX.Direct Spray On.
I think i've hesitated - being uncertain if I weren't just better washing in Nikwax Wash-In and being done with it. Or is it a wash, then a warm iron? "The contentious issue of breathability" has raised the issue of doing the right thing for "my fabric" - although I think Gore sold the world , including me, a hell of a lot of hype about so-called 'breathability' - I wouldn't want the thing to become less breatheabale than it is
I'm referring to the suggestion that a 'wash treatment' will coat both sides of the fabric and this may not be what's needed for all fabric types.

All this, plus some anecdotal success stories, can be found here viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3914&hilit=Techwash%E2%80%A6 . The post by Carl (currently last post of the thread) is particularly revealing as to general principles behind the whole 'performance rainwear' fabrics thing.
But it doesn't answer exactly how to get best results washing a decade-old Palin Vista XCR Gore Tex jacket.
That's maroon in colour.
BTW, I found that I kept the original swing tags (why?) - but no reproofing instructions there either.
Vagrom, I think you'll find the Nikwax products probably double or more your $12 expectation. About $25 - $30 for the spray-on stuff anyway.
Having bored myself into a coma talking about washing a jacket (sorry!), I think I'll just go and throw it in the next load of washing and just be done with it. Could all work out fine ...

[Jellybean]

I have a Pallin Vista Goretex XCR
.....
BTW, I found that I kept the original swing tags (why?) - but no reproofing instructions there either.
....... I think I'll just go and throw it in the next load of washing and just be done with it. Could all work out fine ...

Hi Crockle,

It may be too late for this advice but ...Did you try Googling Pallin Vista Goretex XCR or ringing PP to see if you could get some instructions there? (I assume the instructions inside the jacket are no longer readable)?

Completely different manufacturers, possibly different instructions, but my Macpac Prophet XCR jacket comes up superbly after a wash (by itself or with my One Planet goretex pants) with Nikwax Tech Wash - so bright (it's orange) that you need sunnies on to look at it and it completely rejuvenates the water repellency. Thoroughly worth the cost. (N.B. If I am buying other gear overseas and they also sell Nikwax cheaply I usually stock up then).

Cheers,

JB

[crockle]

Thanks for taking an interest Jellybean. Yes I did do a bit of searching online, but only thing I seemed to find out was Gore Tex XCR is different to 'regular' Gore Tex - further confusing things somewhat. I guessed that Paddy's are not going to care too much about an item as old as that, although there was a time, long long ago.. Maybe I'll call them anyway just to see.
The jacket's wash-tag is quite legible and reads

1. Machine wash warm separately. Rinse thoroughly
2. Do not use bleach or fabric softener
3. Tumble dry warm
4. Steam iron warm
5. If professionally dry-cleaned, clean distilled solvent must be used
6. For specific care instructions always refer to garment manufacturer's recommendations

"Garment manufacturer" seems to *have no* recommendations, and no mention here of re-proofing as ever being necessary

I think maybe what it boils down to is if your jacket has a hydrophilic membrane on either surface, you essentially bugger it up by washing it in Nikwax / DWR coating liquid. Because the water repellency will be bonded to both sides of the jacket. If one surface of the jacket is designed as hydrophilic (absorbs moisture from one side to deliver to another - as in moving sweat) then it cant do its job anymore. These jackets, you only apply the Nikwax/DWR/Graingers/ whatever as a spray-on after regular washing . It seems I've seen that explained a few times, but never seen a listing of what fabrics / jackets fall into what categories in this regard.
The theory would be , if you washed a hydrophilic jacket in Nikwax wash, the water beading and 'proofness' would come up great - you just would have seriously compromised/negated the 'breathing ability' of the garment.

- so bright (it's orange) that you need sunnies on to look at it and it completely rejuvenates the water repellency

I like this image - the fluorescent bushwalker ! Be seen, be safe - be "so seen", people gotta wear shades.
Good tip on checking the Nikwax pricing from 'more inexpensive outlets', when shopping there.

[photohiker]

The theory would be , if you washed a hydrophilic jacket in Nikwax wash, the water beading and 'proofness' would come up great - you just would have seriously compromised/negated the 'breathing ability' of the garment.

I don't believe the Nikwax techwash would not do that. It is a non-detergent soap cleaner.

Also, Goretex comes with an enormous guarantee. I think you may find Paddy Pallin more receptive than you imagine, and I will also be surprised if they don't recommend techwash and perhaps their DWR.

Mont uses non Goretex (Hydranaut) and they (Mont) have told me to wash in techwash but apply the spray-on DWR to the outside of the fabric only as applying it to the inside face messes with the vapor permeability of that particular fabric from the inside out as you have described.

[photohiker]

PS.

From the Goretex Company Care Center

GORE-TEX® outerwear:
Just machine wash it, rinse it, and put it in the dryer, being sure to follow the manufacturer’s instructions on the care label inside. The washing removes dirt and other contaminants and the heat from the dryer helps redistribute the DWR treatment on the fabric surface.

If water fails to bead up on the surface of your cleaned and tumble-dried garment, its DWR treatment has reached the end of its useful life. But don’t worry: You can restore the garment’s water repellency by applying a topical water repellency restorative (DWR treatment) for outdoor fabrics, available at your local outdoor retailer. We do not recommend wash-in treatments, as they can hinder your garment's breathability.

Looks good to me...

[Nuts]

Yes, the spray on treatment is the go. It seems to take best with the coat damp, not dripping wet. Then, yer, into the drier!

[crockle]

The theory would be , if you washed a hydrophilic jacket in Nikwax wash, the water beading and 'proofness' would come up great - you just would have seriously compromised/negated the 'breathing ability' of the garment.

I don't believe the Nikwax techwash would not do that. It is a non-detergent soap cleaner.

I think I've got confused between 2 Nikwax products that you could wash your garment in -
Nikwax Tech Wash http://nikwax.com/en-gb/products/produc ... &activity=, which as you say photohiker is just a non-detergent soap cleaner. And -
Nikwax TX Direct http://nikwax.com/en-gb/products/produc ... abricid=-1 which is for 'Wash-in waterproofing'.

The 2nd of the two is going to reduce performance on garments "without wicking liners".
Nikwax recommend it on their website for Gore Tex.
Gore themselves say otherwise: -

GORE-TEX® outerwear:..We do not recommend wash-in treatments, as they can hinder your garment's breathability

As these 2 directly contradict each other, you take the path between, and wash in the harmless Tech Wash (or any other similar non-detergent soap cleaner), and then proof with your spray-on DWR spray on the damp garment - such as Nikwax TX Direct Spray On http://nikwax.com/en-gb/products/produc ... &activity=
Sounds about right yeah?

Then, yer, into the drier!

Don't have one Nuts - I'll be whipping out the steam iron for the same effect I hope.

[crockle]

PS - Didn't mean to be pushing that one brand - just used their 3 diff. products for illustrative purposes.
And the OP ? - Is hopefully somewhat helped along the way . .
Thanks for links & advice

[Nuts]

I see what you mean crockle. I was sure that site mentioned Spray On as first choice for DWR garments, the product descriptions aren't much help, seem to suggest the opposite. all I found was this quote from the faq's: 'Clothing that is PU coated can be coated with a Nikwax waterproofing treatment by using our TX.Direct spray-on product to the outside of the garment only. This product means you can target specific areas of the jacket that need waterproofing anytime, anywhere'.

[vagrom]

Wow! BWT went offline for a while.
DWR has a wiki entry; yet to read it through. Thanks for all help. It's great to see that perplexity finds companions sometimes. This gear is so expensive. (New word: Hygroscopic! Courtesy of Mr Dilmah)

[Jellybean]

As these 2 directly contradict each other, you take the path between, and wash in the harmless Tech Wash (or any other similar non-detergent soap cleaner), and then proof with your spray-on DWR spray on the damp garment - such as Nikwax TX Direct Spray On http://nikwax.com/en-gb/products/produc ... &activity=
Sounds about right yeah?

Then, yer, into the drier!

That's what works for me! (Forgot to mention the drier earlier). (I think the confusion is in the use of the word "treatment"). With the Macpac jacket mentioned above I've only had to wash in Tech Wash and then dry in the drier to clean the jacket and rejuvenate the water repellency. I've used the NikWax Tech Wash (non-detergent soap cleaner) and the Nikwax TX Direct Spray On (treatment) on another jacket that was starting to wet out.

Different gear manufacturers seem to recommend different make washes/DWR treatments (e.g., NikWax versus Grangers products), not sure if that's just an affiliation that they have or whether that particular manufacturer's product is really better suited to their products.

Cheers,

JB