Tarptent Advice

[WalkerWade]

Hi, I am looking to purchase a 1P tent to reduce my pack weight (currently have a 2P tent weighing abt 2.5kg). I predominantly walk solo in Tassie, so after something suited to Tassie conditions. I am therefore looking at DW, solid interior, and not requiring walking poles. Based on a lot of reading on this forum and other reviews I am looking at a Tarptent but cant decide between the Scarp 1 and Moment DW. I am torn between the extra space of the Scarp 1 and lighter weight of the moment DW. I am hoping that owners of these models can help me out with a few queries:
Scarp 1:
- The optional crossing poles add quite a bit of weight, do people find them necessary for strong winds/snow shedding ? Would they be a necessity for walks such as WA's, Mt Anne ?
- TT claim packed weight of 1376g with aluminium arch pole (carbon arch pole 90g lighter), crossing poles add 260g.
- Ultra TNT model doesn't seem to reduce weight much for the extra cost. Anyone have experience with this material.

Moment DW
- Main concern is the amount of room inside for gear and the tapered ends for sleeping. How do people find the room inside ? I am 178cm and skinny but used to the space of the 2P tent. Thinking about wet & windy tent bound days in Tassie.
- Although TT state 2 stake pitch, it seems most people carry 6 stakes for stability so weight is getting closer to the Scarp.
- DCF (Li) model weight is attractive but cost is getting up there and TT currently have no stock available.

TT currently have an end of season sale on with up to 20% off non-DCF models so hoping to make an informed decision soon. Appreciate your thoughts.

[farefam]

I cannot comment on the Moment, but I just started using the 2023 Scarp 1. Compared to the previous version, the 2023 model has a wider pole sleeve, slightly larger gauge tent pole, the floor width is a bit wider and it has improved tent fly tightening clasps (which were very useful when erecting the tent on a wooden tent platform). Unlike the earlier Scarp1 that I used to have, there is now a seam across the middle of the bathtub floor, but if you thoroughly seam seal it that isn't an issue. I assume the floor seam must have been necessary to have the wider floor plan.

The noticeably wider floor in the new version allows you to comfortably store your gear in the tent inner, rather than leaving some in the two vestibules. If you prefer to make the vestibules wider you can adjust the inner tent to make that narrower instead.

The floor of the tent is very slippery, which can allow your sleeping mat to move around in the night, so I think I might put in a few extra lines of seam sealant across the floor of the tent to provide some friction, which was what the manufacturer recommends.

The floor of the tent, being quite lightweight, is vulnerable to being punctured by sharp sticks and rocks. So always place a groundsheet under the tent floor.

I also have a Macpac Olympus, and compared to that tent, the Scarp 1 is suitably spacious, even for very long trips, at a much lighter weight.

I am very happy to recommend the improved 2023 Scarp 1 and I already know from 8 years previous experience with the 2015 Scarp 1 that it can handle high winds and heavy rain in Tasmania with ease. It is close to being the perfect 1 man tent in my opinion.

You do not need the optional crossing poles for Tasmanian conditions.

As with any single hoop tent design, do make sure you always carry a metal pole repair sleeve. If you are in a remote spot, it is a serious problem if you snap a pole and can't do a temporary field repair.

To avoid my stupid loss of the tent, either always walk with it safely stored inside the pack, or if you do have to strap it to the outside of your pack, always, always, always ensure that you put one of the pack straps through the closure loop of the very slippery tent bag. That way if the pack straps loosen, the tent will remain tied on to the pack instead of falling to the ground. I accidentally lost mine walking off track through thick scrub and two searches failed to find it. That was a rather expensive mistake for a few seconds of carelessness.

Whilst you can pay extra to have the tent seams sealed at the factory, I prefer to just order the tube of sealant and applicator brush and do it myself. It takes less than an hour to apply the sealant and you can be confident that you have done it to the standard that you are completely happy with. Be sure to give the tent several hours of drying time in the sun once you have sealed the seams.

[Tortoise]

Hi Wade. I agree with Farefam. I have an older version of the Scarp 1, which is having a long sit in the cupboard while I decide if it's possible/worth it to replace the aged floor. It was my favourite tent, and I've had quite a few. It got pummeled for 36 hours at High Moor, one of the most exposed campsites on the WAs, and was well up to the task - without the crossing poles.

On another occasion, we had an unexpected dump of about 30cm on snow overnight. I pushed the snow off a couple of times during the night to deal with roof sag. Not sure how much snow it would have taken to cause a problem.

I owned a Moment DW for a short time. While I didn't test it in the field, I wouldn't have been nearly as confident in its capacity to handle wild conditions. The innner is closer to your face, it's harder to keep the fly off the inner, and the reduced inner space is obvious, even for a shortie. As you'd know, the wind here changes direction often, so it's not just a matter of pitching the tent with one end into the wind. It was much easier to get a nice taut pitch with the Scarp, so that helped when the wind came from everywhere. I'm the first to admit that my tent-pitching skills are not the best, so maybe others can get just as good a pitch with the Moment. But I think having the 2 pitchloc corners at each end instead of one must improve stability.

[headwerkn]

We have a two TTs (Double Rainbow Li and ProTrail Li) with a third on the way as I write this (Dipole 2). Suffice to say we're fans of Henry's designs.

Choosing between the Scarp and the Moment, I'd probably err towards the Scarp. It's a proven design in Tasmania (must be a good dozen-plus of them here?), excellent internal space-to-footprint ratio, very storm-worthy and configurable between three-season and four-season use with different inners and the crossing poles. If you can/could only afford one tent for all year round use here, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better, more rounded option anywhere near the price... If I had to start over again with tents, it'd be where I start I think. Or perhaps the DW Dipole 1 if snow loading isn't so much of a concern.

If weight is an overriding concern then I'd probably err more towards either the Notch or ProTrail. A pair of carbon adjustable poles is an extra US$50 and less than 200gm extra if you're set on not using walking poles. I've found the ProTrail surprisingly spacious for a low slung tent, and due to its profile does fare quite well in exposed windy areas so long as you can orientate it correctly or duck in behind bushes etc. I dare say the Notch is more "hide-out-able" though, with the higher centre and twin vestibules.

All that said, I wouldn't write off single-layer tents for Tasmanian conditions, especially if you're concerned with weight... condensation is a given either way and doesn't magically disappear between layers of fabric. Weight saving aside, being able to pitch a tent in rain and have the insides protected can't be overrated, and single layer tents dry much faster too. Our (admittedly DCF) tents dry in literally 5-10 mins of sun/breeze. And you can easily wipe any moisture away as required. Dealing with condensation in my Soulo is far more problematic.

If a slippery floor bugs you, get yourself a 50x100cm sheet of 3mm HD foam from OrangeBrown et. al. Can be used as a sit pad, changing pad, yoga mat for stretching out at the end of the day and dry sheet for keeping your gear off the ground... and then at night, slip it underneath your inflatable sleep mat. Locks you in place, helps protects your mat from potential punctures and adds a non-zero amount of R-value to your sleep system's overall insulative abilities. Works well with delicate, low R-value mats like the Uberlite.

[bernieq]

I have both an older Scarp1 and a current-version DW Moment. Both are good tents. I'd echo most of the previous comments. Changing from the Scarp to the Moment initially felt a bit cramped but was OK after a few trips. Now, when I take the Scarp it feels very spacious. At 178cm you'd be fine in either.

FYI, I carry 6 pegs with the Moment, 8 with the Scarp & a tyvek groundsheet with both. In softer ground I use 2 pegs (crossed) at each end of the Moment - it's a lot of tension to put on just 1 peg. I tent to take the DW Moment on longer trips (weight the bigger issue) & the Scarp1 on shorter trips (comfort more the priority).

IMO the CF pole isn't worth it - higher risk of failure. Crossing poles not needed for wind.

With pegs, guy cord, repair sleeve, poles, groundsheet and tent, my Scarp1 weighs 1.6kg & DW Moment 1.1kg.

I don't agree with headwerkin that a single skin tent has similar condensation issues as a double skin tent. Moisture on the inside of the outer wall of a tent and when buffeted by wind, sprays water - onto the inner with a DW tent - onto the person with SW tent.

[headwerkn]

Moisture on the inside of the outer wall of a tent and when buffeted by wind, sprays water - onto the inner with a DW tent - onto the person with SW tent.

Each to their own experiences. In mine I've had way more issues with condensation being constantly banged off the fly by wind onto the inner tent, which inevitably soaks through onto the inner over time and produces the "rain" effect we all despise. All the dual-wall tents I've owned over the past 15 years (Snowgum Storm Shelter, MSR Hubba Hubba, Hilleberg Nammatj and Soulo, as well as various cheapo Coleman/Spinifex car camping tents) have suffered from it. Definitely an issue on those long, cold, wet stormy days when you're tent-bound for hours on end, pumping out heat and vapour while the tent is all closed up.

At least with a single layer tent you can actually deal with the condensation - eg. wipe it away - before it builds up enough to become an issue to start falling. That's much more difficult on a dual-wall tent... on an outside-in pitch tent like the Hillebergs you can drop the inner hangers from the fly while in the vestibule and generally access the underside of the fly with a towel. With an inside-out pitch DW tent however it's pretty much impossible, especially if it is bucketing with rain outside.

Admittedly, droplets on DCF tend to quickly roll down the inside of the fly and out drainage vents rather than collect and fall. Silnylon tends to perform worse in this regard. Not sure about Silpoly, haven't had a chance to try it yet.

The Double Rainbow Li can be used with a lightweight silnylon liner that makes it quasi-dual layer in a fashion. Gives a bit of protection from any droplets that do happen to fall, while still making it easy to access and wipe the underside. Definitely makes the tent a bit warmer in cold conditions, and reduces the transparency of DCF for those who want better privacy.

[north-north-west]

Moisture on the inside of the outer wall of a tent and when buffeted by wind, sprays water - onto the inner with a DW tent - onto the person with SW tent.

on an outside-in pitch tent like the Hillebergs you can drop the inner hangers from the fly while in the vestibule and generally access the underside of the fly with a towel.

Which is what I do on the rare occasions it's necessary, and one of a number of reasons I won't use inner-first-pitch tents any more.

To the original question, I'd go the Scarp simply because I think it's the best single-person tent design I've ever used. And what I've heard in various places about Ultra, I'd think seriously about that versioon, or a Li Blem if there's one available.

[bernieq]

onto the inner tent, which inevitably soaks through onto the inner over time and produces the "rain" effect we all despise. All the dual-wall tents I've owned over the past 15 years (Snowgum Storm Shelter, MSR Hubba Hubba, Hilleberg Nammatj and Soulo, as well as various cheapo Coleman/Spinifex car camping tents) have suffered from it

Certainly true with mesh-inner tents - MSR hubba hubba being a good example. One particularly windy wet night on Mt Spec was especially bad with spray from the outer soaking the mesh inner then blowing through and onto the sleeping bag. That was my last outing with the MSR (gave it to a niece for NT walking).

However, with all the solid inner tents I've had (Scarp, Moment, WE 1st & 2nd Arrow) none have ever soaked through and wetted the inside. I've had the inner of the TTs 'stick' to the outer (wet outer & wind, maybe less than optimal pitch) but still no transmission through to the inside.

[WalkerWade]

Thank you everyone for your detailed replies. It is great to get an insight and some advice from Tarptent owners, exactly what I was after. Much appreciated.

[bernieq]

When you decide, do tell us . And an action shot down the track would be good.

DW Moment tent - south of the Flinders Ranges - Jun 2023

[Franco]

Go for the Scarp 1 .
I have used the Moment on snow and under snow but the Scarp is both stronger and the extra weight you get back in a larger more comfortable tent particularly given that you are used to a double tent.
The extra poles are really only for snow loads of more than 10-15 cm .
Don't get the CF poles .
The Scarp was a tent that Henry Shires designed for himself to eventualy do a crossing of Iceland. That was later cancelled but in the meantime the tent was slowly coming together.
Basicaly it avoided some of the problems /limitations of somewhat similar designs availiable at the time.
The Moment came from my suggestion of a slimmer/lighter Scarp.
I enjoyed using both.
BTW , I am pretty confident that the Ultra cloth TT is using now will outperform both the .55 and .75 DCF, however the double silicone coated 30D 66 ripstop nylon is well proven and is not that much heavier.

[headwerkn]

Don't get the CF poles .

What's the rationale there Franco? Are they not fit for task? Are we talking the main hoop pole or the additional cross struts?

Other than giving me a deep splinter early on (ouch!) the carbon poles in the DRLi have not given us an issue or cause for concern to date. As such we've ordered our Dipole with 2x accessory adjustable carbon poles. My partner's concerned about snapping a walking pole en route*, but being quite short, her poles aren't long enough to suitable anyway, if she's using the tent solo.

* Serious question - how often are people actually snapping or bending walking poles? It has only happened to me once in 15+ years of owning/using walking poles. Lost the first 100mm off the tip off a battered Salomon S-lab carbon pole (aka a really light, whippy carbon fibre pole designed for trail running, not bushwalking as much) that's likely seen a dozen ultramarathons on top of countless miles of bushwalking. Was still able to pitch the tail end of the ProTrail perfectly fine with a bit of cord for the rest of the trip.

[Franco]

I meant for the main pole in tents like the Scarp or the Moment.
Not that the CF are all that fragile but the aluminium versions are safer.

[WalkerWade]

I ordered the Scarp 1 in SilNylon with CF arch pole for a bit of weight saving. I will also add a repair sleeve to my kit as suggested by farefam. Next task is to get the seam sealing right when it arrives, especially the floor seam. I have elected to do it myself.

[Tortoise]

* Serious question - how often are people actually snapping or bending walking poles? It has only happened to me once in 15+ years of owning/using walking poles. Lost the first 100mm off the tip off a battered Salomon S-lab carbon pole (aka a really light, whippy carbon fibre pole designed for trail running, not bushwalking as much) that's likely seen a dozen ultramarathons on top of countless miles of bushwalking. Was still able to pitch the tail end of the ProTrail perfectly fine with a bit of cord for the rest of the trip.

I've had several sets of poles over the years. While I haven't snapped one, they ending up failing in ways that meant the pole was unusable. Quite possibly user error, though my habit is to wash poles in water after use to remove acidic soil etc.

One way they failed (pardon my forgettory and lack of technospeak) was that one bit of a pole section end got stuck inside another, leaving nothing with which to join 2 sections. I suppose it'd be possible to splint that junction with things taped to the outside of the junction. Not viable to use as a walking pole, but possibly it would work as a tent pole. I think there were 2 other ways my poles have failed, but I can't think of them just now. Another way other people's have failed is that they left them behind somewhere, or dropped one to an inaccessible place rock scrambling.

[headwerkn]

Repair sleeves and a decent amount of gaffa tape always come along with us regardless of the tent or pole construction. Though in a pinch I can attest that electrical tape and your poo shovel work too To date though I've only had breaks with alloy (MSR Hubba) or fibreglass poles (cheap Coleman car camping tents).

Dare I say there's something about the whippy delicacy of those CF hoop poles that make you treat them with a bit of care. Same for the sleeves they go in.

[headwerkn]

Just thought I'd share some initial thoughts of the Dipole 2 - we got ours just before Xmas and have spent 10 nights in it so far over two trips (Spires and Gell/Hippo).

The Good:
+ The interior space is awesome! Especially when you're tent-bound for nearly three days at The Font...
+ The windows are awesome! In the right conditions it vents/dries very quickly, and seems somewhat less prone to condensation esp. if you sleep with one door open. Being able to see outside easily can't be overrated.
+ Vestibule space is very healthy (unlike the Double Rainbow).
+ The extra weight/bulk over the DRLi really isn't noticeable.
+ Wind resistance seems very good, so long as you can manage a taut pitch.

The Not-So-Good:
+ It's definitely a more difficult tent to pitch. We're obviously still on the learning curve but getting it pitched properly still takes a fair bit of faffing around and back-and-forthing between the main pegs to get all sides straight.
+ Big tents require more space and big hiking pole supported tents need a big clear space to set the main pegs properly. The tent was marginally too big to get a properly taut pitch in the main spot at The Font.
+ It's quite sensitive to uneven ground. Which we've had a lot of so far.
+ It won't magically deal with condensation in damp, no wind conditions with two people playing crib all day and sleeping all night.
+ If you can't manage a good taut pitch the roof panels do have a bit of flap to them. If they get a good amount of condensation on them then flap in the wind, you will get rained on. Not sure if TT are planning on selling a roof insert/barrier like they did with the DRLi - there are already internal tie points sewn in - but if they don't we'll probably make our own soon enough.

[north-north-west]

... two trips (Spires and Gell/Hippo).

From Gell to the Hippo is one long and convoluted walk, especially if you managed that and a trip to the Spires (with a fair bit of time tent bound) in ten days.

[headwerkn]

From Gell to the Hippo is one long and convoluted walk, especially if you managed that and a trip to the Spires (with a fair bit of time tent bound) in ten days.

Hippogriff the scrub out that way isn't too bad, have done it enough times now to find the good leads.

But yeah, Xmas leadup chaos and 36 hrs turnaround between trips does wear you out. Had to go to work to have a rest. Terrible