Rain jacket for pushing through reeds, sword-grass

[Davros]

Hi All!
First post here.
I started my days of rain jackets coated top to toe in yellow rubber, moved to “cool’ and useless puffy jackets in the early 80’s, and on to army surplus ponchos in the late 80’s and early 90’s. I then moved into surplus Gore-Tex, and have tried eVent in Integral Designs and Gore 2 and 2.5 layer jackets.
The big problem I have found is that basically, none of the “breathable membranes” have kept me dry.
Ok, perhaps I exaggerate. If I’m walking on a trail in the rain, it seems to work. The water on the outside beads and runs off, and the membrane works.
However, once I leave the track, moving through swampland reeds or thick, dripping wet forest
understory, soaking head-high sword-grass scraping all over me, it seems that the outer is wet-out in minutes.
I’m talking walking where you deliberately “fall” forward to squash foliage and really struggle to push through, blackberries and sword-grass ripping at you etc. The jacket ends up dirty with mud and carbon off previously burned sticks.
What I then find is that the membrane seems not to work. I get wet and clammy straight away, and soon I’m wet through.
So. Should I be moving to PU type jackets with 100% seals? Vents etc. of course.
Any suggestions? I see a brand called Seal Flex. There’s also the old Rainbird brand. After khaki/forest green/camouflage.
I would rather avoid really heavy jackets like oilskins or wool. But I do want something tough enough to resist tough, dirty, dripping wet plants rubbing all over it, sharp leaves and the odd blackberry.
Thoughts and ideas?
Dave

[wayno]

vents are far superior for breathability.
membranes re highly variable in how much moisture they will let out, the more humid it is the less moisture they let out, in warm conditions it will struggle to move enough sweat anyway. if either side of the fabric is saturated with water then it won't breathe at all...
the statistics they give you about how much sweat can move through the fabric is perfect lab conditions that seldom happen in the real world...
i read a report about some tests once, the results were, the most breathable jackets were the ones with the thinnest threads in the face fabric, more gaps for the moisture to move through, heavier fabrics performed worse even with the best membranes.
a lot of the membranes are best suited to cold conditions where you're going to sweat less and its so cold or dry its not likely to rain... its basically acting as a thorough windbreaker and just stopping melted snow from getting in.
in hotter conditions i've seen people that just rely on windbreakers because they dry out a lot quicker than rainshells and they still do the job of keeping them warm enough..
outdoor shops make more money selling more expensive gear and they justify the price with high tech membranes that make claims that often arent entirely correct at all...
softshells would be tough enough for what you're doing,, only water resistant, but, they are heavier when wet and hotter to walk in because of the heavier fabric..

[Moondog55]

How about the "Old School" method employed by the Dutch military?
You wear a WPB liner inside a heavy duty outer layer

[crollsurf]

Pretty much what wayno said. Its worth noting that Gortex and alike don't let evaporation (sweat) escape when humidity is 100%. Which is most of the time when its raining.

The DWR coating, which allows the outer fabric to breath, rubs off quiet easily, so is of zero use when bush bashing.

I find bush bashing, as apposed to just walking off-track, hard work and will sweat, even when its cold. Wet weather gear is better kept in your pack and just use the clothing you would use if it wasn't raining.... and get wet.

[north-north-west]

There is nothing short of a full-on drysuit that will keep you dry when pushing through thick wet scrub, and then you'll just get soaked with sweat anyway.

Go the PU with vents and learn to live with a little dampness. As long as you're not cold and wet for long, you'll survive.

[peregrinator]

I was suckered in by Gore-Tex publicity when it emerged. Yeah, it was rather misleading.

So I have to ask, after comments by Moondog and north-north-west, what is WPB and what is PU? (Should I just Pick Up a Waste Paper Basket and put it on my head to stay dry?)

[wayno]

I was suckered in by Gore-Tex publicity when it emerged. Yeah, it was rather misleading.

So I have to ask, after comments by Moondog and north-north-west, what is WPB and what is PU? (Should I just Pick Up a Waste Paper Basket and put it on my head to stay dry?)

"WPB" waterproof barrier
"PU" Polyurethane

[Davros]

Thanks everyone. My suspicions are not without some truth, it seems.
Yep, I’m a bit underwhelmed with the old “breathable” fabrics.
Given that it seems my experience of bush bashing in the wet seems to negate the advantages of a breathable membrane as the outer wets out and, well, becomes akin to wearing a big, cold, wet bag, I think my next purchase may be back to good old PU or similar.
Any recommendations?
I don’t do hours and hours of it; some sweat isn’t a problem.
The options I see are PU, or even the ol’ “Drizabone” oilskin or similar… (did you know if you leave an oilskin jacket in a car, apparently it can self combust? True?)
Anyway, thanks all for confirming I’m not mad in thinking that Gore or similar are not 100% the answer to all situations!

[Tortoise]

How about the "Old School" method employed by the Dutch military?
You wear a WPB liner inside a heavy duty outer layer

What would you suggest as a WPB liner to wear?

I'm with you, Davros. Sick of paying lots of $ for rainwear that doesn't work.

[Moondog55]

Personally I don't have a problem with Goretex and its relatives, but I do mainly snow so it's a good compromise.
For wearing as a liner almost any of the cheaper LW pullover type WPB garments or get a surplus Dutch Army liner via eBay or any online surplus store or simply mimic Buffalo gear and wear a fleece under a heavy duty unproofed synthetic shell and put up with being damp until you get to camp?
Might have to sew your own breathable shell tho, something a little more robust than Taslan, say 300 or 500 Cordura with a good DWR.
Mind you I've not done any heavy scrub bashing for decades but back then I just put up with being damp as the WPB dried out slowly when you got into a clear patch, under dressing helped me and I found that a Polartec 100 pullover was the best underlayer to use with my jacket back then, was the old style HellyHansen Lifa base layers which may have helped too

[johnrs]

Here is a solid jacket at an unbeatable price
https://snowgum.com.au/products/snowgum ... axon_id=55
John

[andrewa]

If you’re into DIY, I’ve recently made some pants for ski touring/ bushbashing/maybe bushwalking… from this fabric. A bit stiff, but comfy, and windproof and water resistant.Still to use in winter in snow.

https://www.paskal.com.au/weathermax80.html

I’m impressed enough to now plan on building a jacket from it.

Not sure whether this is helpful or not.

A

[Davros]

Thanks for all the info people.

Do you think that this:

https://www.kaiwakaclothing.co.nz/produ ... ltex-parka

And this:

https://www.sealflexaustralia.com/seal-flex-green-parka

Are the same, with “badge engineering”?

Look kinda interesting…

[slparker]

Let us know if you find a solution - it's the most difficult conditions to walk in, I think. There is no possibility of remaining dry and of course you need to avoid the constant wetting from the scrub replacing the warm water trapped next to your skin.

I'd be inclined to try a sea to summit silnylon poncho for those conditions - I am not at all a fan of ponchos but it would likely keep your core and upper thighs free from constant wetting from the scrub. My gut feeling is that the scrub would slide off the fabric rather than catch. Surely someone has used a poncho in Aussie scrub - I know that Roger Caffin is a fan.

[rcaffin]

Yes, a silnylon poncho can slide off wet scrub quite well - although I always take a little care with it.
In warm weather we don't bother with any rainwear, but you do need to avoid getting too cold.

The memory comes to me of going through bad Tasmanian scrub in the rain wearing an oiled japara Eidex jacket. To be sure, it was not totally waterproof, and it was a bit heavy, but it lasted very well, and reproofing it was simple. I wonder what happened to mine?

SWTassie6S.jpg (37.25 KiB) Viewed 2077 times

SW Tassie, Arthur Ranges, mid-1960s, my wife Sue (OK, pre-marriage) on left and a friend on right.

Cheers
Roger

[Warin]

The memory comes to me of going through bad Tasmanian scrub in the rain wearing an oiled japara Eidex jacket. To be sure, it was not totally waterproof, and it was a bit heavy, but it lasted very well, and reproofing it was simple. I wonder what happened to mine?

Think I got rid of my last one, a Paddy Pallin IIRC, in Scotland - got soaked in it .. may have gotten a Belstaff after it. They still make the Belstaffs ... heavier than the japara but stronger too and more water proof.