Mont synthetic sleeping bags?

[kalium]

Hi,

I'm keen on going to Tasmania over the winter, and am looking for a nice synthetic bag! (unfortunately, down is NOT an option due to allergy)
I've done a lot of research, and found that there are some good bags out there that will do what I need.

I went to my local camping store and they had a Mont Extreme. Rated to -10 or soemthing, but just too bulky when compressed!
I was looking at the catalogue though, and they had a Mont Alpine Super, whic is rated to -6 and is 300grams less (1.48kg)

Would this be ok over winter in tassie, and does anyone have experience with the Mont synthetic range (these ones have the Polarguard 3D filling)

Cheers!

[corvus]

G'day kalium,
I use a -5 rated down bag all seasons in Tassie add silk liner about +2% and when it gets really cold wear extra clothing thermals socks etc, so that bag should do the job for you
Enjoy your Tassie trip.
corvus

[Nuts]

if it does indeed get to -6 i can almost guarantee youll be wishing you had the -10 model, 1.5kg is marginal even with cheap feathers.

[adventurerichard]

also consider using or taking a Sea To Summit thermal liner which adds about 5-10 degrees. I've never used one but have heard good things.

Are the ratings for Mont bags EN standard? If not, I'd look elsewhere as there's enough bag manufacturers with this rating (even Kathmandu, my favourite shop i love to hate). Otherwise, how can you be sure the -5 rating is a fair reflection and considering a choice between one bag and another may come down to 2 or 3 degrees, it's reasonable to want to know that the actual ratings are true and accurate.

[kalium]

I agree about having an EN rating. Actually the only reason I am thinking it might be accurate is because I've heard Mont is quite a good brand, and I know that Polarguard 3D is quite a good synthetic fill. I like to hear first hand accounts but I can't find anything out on the net about them.

[dee_legg]

Mont certainly do make good gear, but I have no experience using their synthetic bags.
Mountain Hardwear is another brand to consider...

http://www.mountainhardwear.com.au is the place to go to see the stats.. Mountain Designs and Paddy Pallins both stock them.

[kalium]

Yep, I've seen their stuff. I was looking at a Lamina 20 the other day in paddy palin. Nice compressible bag. Reasonably more expensive than the price I could get for the mont though. They are still an option.

[corvus]

Hi,

I'm keen on going to Tasmania over the winter, and am looking for a nice synthetic bag! (unfortunately, down is NOT an option due to allergy)
I've done a lot of research, and found that there are some good bags out there that will do what I need.

I went to my local camping store and they had a Mont Extreme. Rated to -10 or soemthing, but just too bulky when compressed!
I was looking at the catalogue though, and they had a Mont Alpine Super, whic is rated to -6 and is 300grams less (1.48kg)

Would this be ok over winter in tassie, and does anyone have experience with the Mont synthetic range (these ones have the Polarguard 3D filling)

Cheers!

Where exactly do you intend using it, OLT or off track and in or on snow, Hut or tent,I reiterate that the one you are looking at should do the job for you coupled with a good mat as you can put on more clothing (dont forget the beanie) if you feel the chill.
Being a long time (43year) Tassie resident I tend not to feel the cold and as such wear shorts year round so may well be somewhat blase' in my comments but dont be put off or influenced to get a heavier bag as I do think your choice will be OK.
corvus

[etrangere]

I bought a Mont Zodiac 500 (0 to 5 degrees), its down not synthetic, but did look at the synthetic bags when looking at the Zodiac. I love my bag and the synthetics are of the same build quality and are the exact same "tapered rectangular" shape and dimensions which gives a bit more leg/foot room compared to the mummy bags which I prefer.

Are you buying the bag solely for the trip to Tassie or do you plan on using it in Qld also?? Because if the Tassie trip is just a one off and 90% of its use is going to be in Qld I'd buy the Mont Evo Super (0 to 5 degrees) and wear thermals and maybe get a Sea to Summit Thermolite Reactor Extreme which on their website says increases your sleeping bag performance by 14C. That way you would get a lot more flexibility/use out of the bag. Well that’s the line of thought I used when buying my Mont Zodiac as I live in Perth WA but at some stage would love to do a Tassie winter also in the future.

[Nuts]

I tried the thermolite reactor, no doubt it does add warmth, similar i'd feel to a flannelette sheet (but heavier...) (Personally) I think 1/2 degrees is more like it. 14...

[nickL]

tried the s2s thermolite reactor with my wm summerlite - it did add a few degrees - 14 is wishful thinking - my logic though is if you are going to use a liner to keep the inside of your bag clean and you need warmth use this one

nik

[kalium]

Corvus,
Yep I'd say you are acclimatised to the tassie weather a bit better than some of us Your confidence assures me somewhat though.
My destination in tassie is not yet 100% locked down. Most probably though, somewhere around cradle mountain, and maybe maria island as well (If I can bring myself to swallow the bitter pill that is the ferry price! )

Etrangere,
I guess I'm buying it specifically for the tassie trip, but would hope to find use for it again and again (maybe even OS). I've used completely inadequete gear before whilst trying to save a buck (winter in the UK in a Vango 1000 rated to 4c comfort....yeah right). Inland QLD and northern NSW can get quite chilly in Winter as well, near freezing temps. For much more mild weather I have my otherwise useless vango :p Definitely gives me something to think about though!

[etrangere]

I tried the thermolite reactor, no doubt it does add warmth, similar i'd feel to a flannelette sheet (but heavier...) (Personally) I think 1/2 degrees is more like it. 14...

Which thermolite reactor did you use?

StS claims
Thermolite Reactor - 7C
Thermolite Reactor Extreme - 14C

Even if you give it a 50% performance margin the Reactor Extreme and wearing thermals would add 10C to your sleeping bag easily I would say.

[etrangere]

Bureau of Meteorology states the lowest temp ever recorded in tasmania is -13 which isnt that bad actually. So I think a 0 to -5 rated bag with thermals and the thermoilite reactor extreme would be more than adequate...... which ever way you go I hope you have a great trip. I'm jealous!

[Nuts]

I tried the thermolite reactor, no doubt it does add warmth, similar i'd feel to a flannelette sheet (but heavier...) (Personally) I think 1/2 degrees is more like it. 14...

Which thermolite reactor did you use?

StS claims
Thermolite Reactor - 7C
Thermolite Reactor Extreme - 14C

Even if you give it a 50% performance margin the Reactor Extreme and wearing thermals would add 10C to your sleeping bag easily I would say.

etrangere, I tried the '-7c' model here in winter. Sorry mate but there is just no way it was even 'a few degrees' and doubling that doesnt say much... coupled with a bag that may have 'comfort' rating certified much higher than that 'advertised' could leave someone very cold indeed. I know its easy to follow reviews, all the choices and end up satisfied that there may be a magic bullet but this isnt it. A substiute for a higher rated bag? not (i'd say) for any but the warmest sleepers. Thermals, socks, beanies, liners all to a point add increments of warmth but nowhere near additional down. Having the liner in place of light silk and a better bag is a compromise that can work for some, though (ime) is not that efficient weight wise. Adding the increments that are available internationally gives enough choice to get 'the right' sleeping bag' (perhaps even from one of the manufacturers complying with certifiable standards)... I have found that (-9-12) (15F or lower) is usually adequate, however, there are a suprising number of people who would sstill wake up ccold.



A down vest is perhaps ok to keep discomfort within a 'safe' level.

*I havent owned the mont synthetic bag, for the couple i have tried synthetics seem to be a similar story (add a few hundred grams to reach a similar rating as cheaper down bags (600-700fill))

Hope this helps

[Ent]

Hi

Maybe someone a bit more technical savvy with cold could explain the S2S thermal reactor and its claims along the lines does it is claim to add a consistent number of degrees say making a -20 bag to -27 versus as converting a 5 degree bag into a -2, assuing -7 rating for the liner. My logic circuits become a bit fried with some claims as using two or even three would make a magic rating for a pretty average bag. From what I have read the Nuts' findings are more typical with very little benefit in warmth rating and makes me wonder if S2S have ENS tested the thermal reactor or is it marketing hype?

Bummer not being able to tolerate down as sythetic bags while getting better on the weight front still tend to bulky and by all accounts do not enjoy repeated tight packing so have a shorter life. As for warmth rating, Tasmanian Parks recommend a -5 as adequate for the OT and I use four bags at various times, a -3 -7 -10 and -12 bag. In early winter the -3 in a hut was ok while a warmer weather member of the group that borrowed my -7 and found that ok in mid winter in the large hut at Lake Rodway. I like the idea of a -10 bag as been a good alround Tassie bag but that is me wanting rather to be warm than cold but I would be happy with a -5 bag assuming that rating is "correct".

Full wool thermals and a decent sleeping mat should keep your warm enough unless you plan to sleep on snow on top of say Ossa. Most huts are at lower altitude so should be a bit warmer than some of the headline posted temperature. Also feeling the cold is often more a factor of how stuffed you are and how well feed. An easy day with a good hot meal at the end can have a dramatically more comfortable night than arriving stuffed and so not eating much. I believe that this alone can explain the wide variety of peoples experience in feeling the cold and what temperature rating works for them.

Mont is a good brand but check out a few others as buying from USA should give a wider range. Generally synthetic bags are seen as an entry level bag so maybe a specialist bag maker might be around supplying better quality bags designed for people that can not handle the down ones rather than making a cheap line before the down price bags kick in.

Cheers Brett

[Tony]

Hi Kalium,

I have to agree with Nuts and Brett, it is very hard to get a true rating of a sleeping bag, and it is very difficult to do so, as we all have different cold tolerance and sleep temperature ratings. This even can be different during the night as having a full stomach keeps you warmer that an empty one. I took my -10C bag on the OT in October 2005 and was cold while sleeping in the huts while other times I have slept in the same bag in tents in similar temps and have been OK. What suits me may not suit you or Brett or Nuts.

It is a pity that you cannot use down as for weight to warmth ratio it is out on its own but down is not the be all and end all as it is useless when it is wet, that is where synthetics come into there own.

I use a lightweight synthetic (quilt) bag in the Australian Alps in summer where the temperatures at night can get down to below 0C and have been comfortable at these temps. In the colder seasons I use a lightweight Down bag rated -10C and for mid winter I use a second sleeping bag (MacPac snow flake) as a liner, I have slept in -20C with this combination or as of last snow season I now use my synthetic quilt as a liner which is a warmer combination.

With the S2S bag liner I have read differing reports some claim not worth the weight while others like them.

A bag to look at is this synthetic Backpacking Light UL 240 quilt.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... quilt.html
The earlier version, the 180 quilt which I have was designed for a 1000 mile journey across the very wet summer Artic and was designed to be used with the Cocoon Jacket and Pants, the 240 is to be released soon. I am thinking about putting a zipper on my 180 quilt or sew the back up as I sleep on my sides and find the back can get bit drafty when it is very cold and I roll over.

Another thing you can do is to prepare yourself for the cold, this might be hard to do in Queensland, I find when I ride my bike a lot on cold Canberra winter mornings and days, I do not feel the cold as much.

Tony

[Nuts]

Those 'quilts' do look interesting Tony!

Your main point about individual warmth is a good'n, often lost in the hype. I cant really see a way around it besides experience, trying different ratings etc. I guess that the standards help with this to some extent as a starting point.

Had a quick look around for synthetic bags last night, even the 'rated' manufacturers dont seem to rate their synthetic bags. It seems true that they treat them as a 'lower end' item.

Anyhow... I see a few synthetic bags listed on Sierra (always a good place to start for cheaper gear and postage):

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/search ... tions=True

Perhaps this helps?

[etrangere]

Dont have any experience with the StS thermolite reactors but reviews for them on REI.com seem very good, the only negatives I can recall mentioned are when some people tried to use them on their own as a fair weather bag. Mainly because they didnt have a windproof shell and people found performance dropped with any wind/breeze. In saying that they are sold as a liner so what did they expect.

[corvus]

Dont have any experience with the StS thermolite reactors but reviews for them on REI.com seem very good, the only negatives I can recall mentioned are when some people tried to use them on their own as a fair weather bag. Mainly because they didnt have a windproof shell and people found performance dropped with any wind/breeze. In saying that they are sold as a liner so what did they expect.

Good to have suggestions and input however I believe actual users in Tasmania dont rate them and I will stick to my tried and true Silk Liner for warmth without weight
corvus

[ninjapuppet]

well they're currently on special now at campstuff if anyone is interested.
$69 down to $47

http://www.campstuff.com.au/online-shop ... uct_id=229

maybe this should go in the "deals" section.
as for me, I'm with Corvus and sticking to my silk liner.

[Nuts]

I like silk liners.

Perhaps Kallum has backed off with us talking about everything but the Mont bag? BTW Mont are as likely as anyone to make a good synthetic bag, be far better on some of the cheap overrated bags on ebay. Just that the ratings are hard to judge. I would suggest that (going on the weight and experience with similar fill) perhaps -3/4 and 6/7 would be the 'comfort' ratings for those bags mentioned (to an average size, averagely warm fella!)

BTW , Corvus comments- It should be kept in mind that he is likely still wearing his shorts (or kilt) in the snow

[Selig97]

I am in a similar situation that I can't use a down bag. Up until recently I have been using a 20odd year old synthetic bag rated at 0C. Now in the summer months, this is not a bad bag still but anything close to a cold night outside is about the same temp in the bag.

Recently I purchased, but haven't used as yet, a new synthetic bag the Marmot trestles 15F bag. After some research I did find this to be rated to minus 11.2°C (Lower Comfort men, European Standard) also some positive reviews from owners of the bag, so I am hoping for a positive result when I take it out in the near future. It is a bit heavy at 1.6kg and large in size, but I haven't compressed down until I need to as not good for synthetic bags.

I purchased from Bivouac in NZ around $160 AU and freight free. (No affiliation with Bivouac only a customer)
http://www.bivouac.co.nz/gear/camping-a ... g-bag.html

Once I use this bag I will post some feedback.

[Ent]

Selig97 wrote "Recently I purchased, but haven't used as yet, a new synthetic bag the Marmot trestles 15F bag. After some research I did find this to be rated to minus 11.2°C (Lower Comfort men, European Standard) also some positive reviews from owners of the bag, so I am hoping for a positive result when I take it out in the near future. It is a bit heavy at 1.6kg and large in size, but I haven't compressed down until I need to as not good for synthetic bags."

At 1.6 kilograms for a -11.2 comfort rated bag that is not too bad given a WM Versa-lite at -12 tips the scales just under 1 kilogram for a down bag. The main advantage is the Vera-light packs up reasonably small but is soooooo much more expensive Looks like a good choice so you must be looking forward to heading out into the Tasmanian winter to give it a work out

Cheers Brett

[Nuts]

Ive owned that particular bag also. -11 is rubbish (sorry selig), but that should be obvious! That lower rating should not even be mentioned for sleeping bags, it is meaningless. The trestles 15 is probably more like -3/4 for the average (and everyone at Marmot (or Bivouac) would know that!) Even the Pinnacle (Marmots rated, 800 fill, w'proof shell, most popular bag) is only 'comfortable' to -5 or so (without help). Marmot make great bags but the ratings should be understood.

Some of those reviews, especially on shop sites, are more than hopeful. How many are written by people who 'have tried them in the loungeroom', 'spent a night in it'... how many others are just bs, how many originate from the company themselves.

(btw, theres one here kallum...http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MARMOT-TRESTLES- ... 5887b07dd8)

[blacksheep]

Ive owned that particular bag also. -11 is rubbish (sorry selig), but that should be obvious! That lower rating should not even be mentioned for sleeping bags, it is meaningless. The trestles 15 is probably more like -3/4 for the average (and everyone at Marmot (or Bivouac) would know that!) Even the Pinnacle (Marmots rated, 800 fill, w'proof shell, most popular bag) is only 'comfortable' to -5 or so (without help). Marmot make great bags but the ratings should be understood.

Some of those reviews, especially on shop sites, are more than hopeful. How many are written by people who 'have tried them in the loungeroom', 'spent a night in it'... how many others are just bs, how many originate from the company themselves.

(btw, theres one here kallum...http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MARMOT-TRESTLES- ... 5887b07dd8)

it baffles me why some sites quote the lower temp as the main guidline that forms a purchasing decision...will surely leave a few folks chilly...

[Nuts]

perhaps it has some merit in giving an idea of the stage at which you can start to worry about survival (Most stores seem to use it... to be fair though, so do most manufacturers (its printed on the bag or used in the naming...))

[blacksheep]

perhaps it has some merit in giving an idea of the stage at which you can start to worry about survival (Most stores seem to use it... to be fair though, so do most manufacturers (its printed on the bag or used in the naming...))

'cause that's what most customers are seeking...survival..(not comfort).

[Ent]

Hi Nuts

I agree that there nothing like experience with a bag and the manufacturer/marketers rating system in the real world but am a bit puzzled by the rating system quoted on the website selig references. The site claims lower comfort rating not the survival rating I fully agree with any comment that condemns the use of the survival rating as a buying guide, but comfort means, or least I thought it did, the lowest temperate that a male could be comfortable at. Ok this can vary on individual and even how the person is feeling at the time but sounds likes from your experience that this is wildly optimistic suggesting either the wrong rating has been quoted on the website or the bag manufacturer/marketer use of the standard rating is suspect.

Just goes to show how vulnerable the average buyer is as they rely in labelling being correct and we all know that for more than a few marketers they consider impresise labelling their right and then are prepared to slam other marketers that do the same Sounds bit like the political party process in this country and all that has done is create justifiable suspicion with all politicans so naturally the same practice of undermining a competitor is likley to have the same result. It does re-inforce my view that a specialist manufacturer is probably a better place to buy if performance is critical compared to a marketing clearing house relying on huge discounts to make sales. For down bags there are a few choices but for synthetic ones the choices appear to be limited say with the sole exception of OP. They make a Sac4 rated -2 to -10 with weight fo 1.75 kilograms for the regular and 1.9 kilogram for the large. It is my feeling that if a manufacturer/marketer quotes temperatures to weight greatly out of wack with either OP or WM then you can be a bit suspicous. Sileg's bag is not to far removed from the OP specifications but claims to be lighter and warmer so maybe they are as you have found optimistic.

Cheers Brett

PS I have found OP and WM rating to be pretty much on the money, if not a little warmer, but even then in a drafty poorly designed tend like the MD Kaon I felt very cold in a -10 rated bag loosely done up and then way to hot when fully shutup so tent and sleeping mat combination can assist or detract from any bag's performance, at least in my humble opinion.

[Franco]

From Marmot

How do I read the EN information?

Basically the EN graphic shows a temperature range:
Comfort Limit The first number is based on a standard woman having a comfortable nights sleep
Lower Limit The next number is based on a standard man at the lowest temp to have a comfortable nights sleep
Extreme Rating The last number is a survival rating for a standard woman

For example, the rating on our Pinnacle 15º Sleeping Bag shows:
Comfort Limit 22.2 degrees (-5.4 c)
Lower Limit 10 degrees (-12.2c)
Extreme Rating Minus 24.7 degrees (-31c)

Franco