Pack covers

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Pack covers

Postby Dexter » Mon 11 Oct, 2021 4:05 pm

Hey all. I've just recently bought an Osprey Exos and i've been wondering about whether I should look at a pack cover. My older pack is a canvas One Planet. Great stuff but I wanted a smaller lighter option as well. Since the canvas is somewhat water resistant I have never really thought about buying a cover. I've watched a couple of videos online comparing the weight of a pack that's wet, vs the weight of a cover etc. It seems there's opinions either way as to whether or not it's worth it. I usually store anything important like sleeping bag, mat, clothes, electronics etc in a Ultra-Sil dry bags anyway. But interested to hear opinions here.

If I did go down the pack cover route - is it best to go with Osprey brand, or are there some fancy dyneema universal covers worth looking at? Maybe rig up a DIY Tyvek cover? I was considering carrying my Tarptent SS Li on the loops provided for carrying a mat or tent external to the pack since it can't really be packed horizonal. But I guess that would create some issues fitting a cover as well.

Keen to hear thoughts... Cheers!
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Re: Pack covers

Postby wildwanderer » Mon 11 Oct, 2021 4:19 pm

Great choice on the exos pack.

Don't get a pack cover. Get a pack liner instead. Osprey and sea to summit make decent ones.

A pack cover won't keep your stuff dry if you drop it into a creek. A pack liner will. Might not need even a liner if you (as you mentioned) already have your gear stored in dry bags. I usually just use a liner. For a waist deep river crossing i wrap my sleeping bag in a garbage bag as a added precaution. But in practice the water has never penetrated the liner. (I test mine periodically)

With nylon packs the water absorption is minimal.

Also wouldn't recommend having your $$ dyneema tent on the outside of your pack. Twigs and other sharp stuff could damage it
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Re: Pack covers

Postby EGM » Mon 11 Oct, 2021 5:09 pm

I've generally been in the pack liner or dry bags camp but I've decided to give a pack cover a go on upcoming trips for a few reasons.

Mainly to keep the pack itself and things on the outside clean and dry. My partner used a cover all last season and I was very envious of her pack being clean and dry and I found the outside of the liner was only getting wet when there was heavy rain, indicating the pack material is pretty water resistant.

Another reason is to keep sea spray off the pack and salt out if the zips and buckles. We do lots of coastal trips and I hate to think of the damage the salt is doing.

I also plan on strapping a ccf mat to my pack on most trips.

I'll still use a liner if lots of rain or water crossings are on the cards.

Of course I can't really speak from experience but this is my thought process.
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Re: Pack covers

Postby Eremophila » Mon 11 Oct, 2021 6:12 pm

Pack cover is also handy to sit on and keep your bum dry, or for stacking stuff on while you’re packing up the tent.
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Re: Pack covers

Postby kelvinn » Mon 11 Oct, 2021 6:29 pm

I'm in the pack liner camp, but mainly because I'm a bit frugal.

There a little hard to find here, but nylofume bags are my current go-to for pack liners. I think Orange Brown and Ultralight Hiker have them. If I didn't have this bag then I'd probably get a Glad Tuff Stuff Tidy bag: $4 per 15 count. 27L (medium and 35L (large) sizes available. Save some $$$ for something else on the ever growing backpacking to-buy list :)
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Re: Pack covers

Postby Bill P » Mon 11 Oct, 2021 7:15 pm

Hi Dexter,

I agree with the pack liner idea. I use one with my Exos in heavy weather. The Exos has a problem with the poor water seal up top due to the removeable lid . I dont like pack covers as they can blow off, catch on scrub and the bottom seem to fill up with water.

I have removed the steel frame and seam sealed the entire bag inside. Its a bit awkward and you mightn't want to do that with a brand new bag. There are a lot of seams on this bag due to fashion considerations, but I think seam sealing is a good mod, especially for the top pocket which is easy to seal. On most walks I dont take my Sea to Summit liner.

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Re: Pack covers

Postby Dexter » Mon 11 Oct, 2021 7:23 pm

wildwanderer wrote:Great choice on the exos pack.


Cheers, I'm really keen to give it a try and actually still waiting for it to arrive. I usually advise people always try a pack on in-store and for some reason broke my own rule. I measured myself about 5 times and double checked everything. I seem to be smack bang in the middle of the range for medium even though I'm fairly tall... so fingers crossed it works for me.

wildwanderer wrote:Don't get a pack cover. Get a pack liner instead. Osprey and sea to summit make decent ones.

A pack cover won't keep your stuff dry if you drop it into a creek. A pack liner will. Might not need even a liner if you (as you mentioned) already have your gear stored in dry bags. I usually just use a liner. For a waist deep river crossing i wrap my sleeping bag in a garbage bag as a added precaution. But in practice the water has never penetrated the liner. (I test mine periodically)

With nylon packs the water absorption is minimal.

Also wouldn't recommend having your $$ dyneema tent on the outside of your pack. Twigs and other sharp stuff could damage it


Yeah it I had thought about how easily dyneema can get a puncture, even through it's stuff sack. I have a S2S liner, which I actually just use as a large dry bag. I pack my sleeping bag/bag liner, mat, pillow, and puffy mid layer into it... and use a couple of smaller ones in different colours for organising stuff and one for a food bag. Apart from that a couple of glide lock bags... one for meds, and one for a rubbish bag. Everything else can get wet. Probably a lot more pricey than the garbage bag route, but I've just kind of collected them over the last few years when I saw them on sale.


EGM wrote:Another reason is to keep sea spray off the pack and salt out if the zips and buckles. We do lots of coastal trips and I hate to think of the damage the salt is doing.


You make a good point regarding salt. I'm likely going to do the great ocean walk in the coming months, and it's not something I'd considered.


Eremophila wrote:Pack cover is also handy to sit on and keep your bum dry, or for stacking stuff on while you’re packing up the tent.


Good tip! I've often sat on my gators. Not the comfiest of seats though I'll admit.

kelvinn wrote:nylofume bags are my current go-to for pack liners. I think Orange Brown and Ultralight Hiker have them.


Cheers I'll have a google and check them out.

kelvinn wrote: If I didn't have this bag then I'd probably get a Glad Tuff Stuff Tidy bag: $4 per 15 count. 27L (medium and 35L (large) sizes available. Save some $$$ for something else on the ever growing backpacking to-buy list :)


I keep thinking I'm done adjusting and buying more gear... I should learn to accept my addiction.

Bill P wrote:Hi Dexter,

I agree with the pack liner idea. I use one with my Exos in heavy weather. The Exos has a problem with the poor water seal up top due to the removeable lid . I dont like pack covers as they can blow off, catch on scrub and the bottom seem to fill up with water.

I have removed the steel frame and seam sealed the entire bag inside. Its a bit awkward and you mightn't want to do that with a brand new bag. There are a lot of seams on this bag due to fashion considerations, but I think seam sealing is a good mod, especially for the top pocket which is easy to seal. On most walks I dont take my Sea to Summit liner.

Bill


Awesome! That's all very helpful. What did you end up using to seam seal it? Do you always use the top pocket attached? How have you gotten on with the Exos overall? The biggest complaints seem to be the lack of adjustability and no hip belt pockets. So long as it fits me okay I can live without them.
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Re: Pack covers

Postby Bill P » Mon 11 Oct, 2021 7:47 pm

Hi Dexter, I just use household silicon thinned with turps or shellite to seal seams. Whatever I have leftover that hasn't gone off.

I found the removeable bag top annoying. If you leave it off , then you've got nowhere to put your small things. So i like to have a top pocket. I cut the buckles off the inner flap as I was always plugging into the wrong buckle when closing the lid. The removeable lid also compromises rain sealing for the main pack body. I really don't like the removeable top aspect.
The saving grace of the top is when I get a tent up, I unclip the top and just fling it inside the tent which is good. Leaving the main bag outside.

I have used this Exos for 3 years including 14 day off track walks in Vic Alps and Tasmania, with no food drops. Im surprised at how well it lasted.

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Re: Pack covers

Postby Dexter » Mon 11 Oct, 2021 9:44 pm

Great to hear it's lasted well. Yeah I have mixed feelings about the removable top. I heard someone mention it makes a decent pillow if you stuff a puffer jacket or similar in there. I guess if you decide to take it on a shorter day trip somewhere and you know there's no rain about it would be better without.

I also like smaller pockets to put bits and pieces into like a pocket knife, head lamp, keys, and my spork etc.

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Re: Pack covers

Postby Eremophila » Tue 12 Oct, 2021 8:46 am

Re pack covers accumulating water in the bottom - my STS has an eyelet, as I imagine most of them would, for drainage. Haven't had a problem with this.

I'm not favouring one option over the other, just making the observation.
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Re: Pack covers

Postby Dexter » Tue 12 Oct, 2021 9:04 am

Eremophila wrote:Re pack covers accumulating water in the bottom - my STS has an eyelet, as I imagine most of them would, for drainage. Haven't had a problem with this.

I'm not favouring one option over the other, just making the observation.


Thanks for that. If I decide to grab a cover I'll make sure some drainage is included. What pack do you use the STS cover on? and how do you find their sizing?
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Re: Pack covers

Postby Eremophila » Tue 12 Oct, 2021 9:35 am

Originally purchased for a One Planet Stiletto 60L, now using an Osprey Ariel 65L. The cover is a medium, will need to upgrade to a large if I continue using the CCF mat as it's carried on the outside. Edit: re sizing, appears accurate enough.

This created an issue recently on the GOW - due to the cover being overstretched, the bungee cord somehow ended up with one end pulling through the stopper, and whole cord had pulled most of the way around by the time I realised. So I pulled it out, intending to re-thread it through.

However there was a join knot in the cord - thanks STS! For some reason which escapes me, I undid and re-tied the knot, then it wouldn't fit back through the eyelet no matter what I did. I ended up with the cover on the pack and the cord stretched over the top for the last 2 days. That worked ok.

Gale conditions on the last day saw me lose the cover, however a kind person out for a run found it and returned it to me on his way back to Princetown. I still need to get another cord though.

So next time I purchase a cover I will be checking for any joins in the cord.

Glad you asked? :lol:
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Re: Pack covers

Postby EGM » Tue 12 Oct, 2021 9:47 am

I have Deuter and Kathmandu covers that came free and I don't think either have drainage holes so worth checking before buying.

If it suits your pack some which are made for packs with a suspended back panel have a cord that goes between that and the main pack to keep it in place better.

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Re: Pack covers

Postby headwerkn » Tue 12 Oct, 2021 9:55 am

Don't pack covers exist so that your walking companions can constantly say "hey, your cover is coming off again!" ;-)

Admittedly as a HMG dyneema pack + pods user I've never really seen the point of a pack cover with the exception of one situation - pack hauling. Being able to protect and contain the gear in the side/back pockets while you're bouncing it pack down over rocks off the end of a rope is A Good Thing. Western Arthurs taught us that.

Personally I always keep my tent in the back pocket of my 3400 Junction. Being able to set up my tent in rain/bad weather without having to crack open the pack, or get completely packed up before dropping the tent, is just way too useful a thing. Both our dyneema tents live in either a tyvek envelope or DCF bag, and I usually wrap my sit pad around it in the pocket for extra protection and packing efficiency. Have done a tonne of scrub bashing with this configuration and never come even close to feeling the tent was at risk. But each to their own.
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Re: Pack covers

Postby Dexter » Tue 12 Oct, 2021 10:55 am

Yeah the idea of being able to setup and pull down the shelter without needing to open up the pack is appealing. That, and all the extra room in the pack would be lovely :D My tarptent has a DCF stuff sack. I like your idea of wrapping it, I don't use a sit pad but I did grab some Tyvek as a footprint, so maybe I could wrap it up in that and secure it with some bungee cord or similar. Cheers.
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Re: Pack covers

Postby CBee » Tue 12 Oct, 2021 2:19 pm

Exos + pack cover for me didn't work. Exos absorbing too much water on harness and cover getting caught on branches and scrub ecc. I find HMG southwest with liner better for wet TW.
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Re: Pack covers

Postby Dexter » Tue 12 Oct, 2021 2:35 pm

CBee wrote:Exos + pack cover for me didn't work. Exos absorbing too much water on harness and cover getting caught on branches and scrub ecc. I find HMG southwest with liner better for wet TW.


Cheers. I just bought the Exos and pretty excited to use it so I don't see myself switching packs again just yet. I might consider DCF in a few years but coming from a 2.7kg pack to a 1.2kg pack is already going to be luxury! :D

I'ts meant to be about 800g heavier when soaked, so I'm still well and truly ahead even if I let it get wet and seal up everything inside.
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Re: Pack covers

Postby headwerkn » Tue 12 Oct, 2021 3:34 pm

Dexter wrote:Yeah the idea of being able to setup and pull down the shelter without needing to open up the pack is appealing. That, and all the extra room in the pack would be lovely :D My tarptent has a DCF stuff sack. I like your idea of wrapping it, I don't use a sit pad but I did grab some Tyvek as a footprint, so maybe I could wrap it up in that and secure it with some bungee cord or similar. Cheers.


Trick is to fold (carefully... it's DCF after all) your tent so you end up with something flat and low profile that fits the rear pocket of your pack neatly. A4-sized for the HMG packs. I found a decent sized DCF dry bag for my TT Pro Trail Li, for our Double Rainbow Li I just cut something to size from the tyvek that got rejected for ground sheet use, taped it up with duct tape, still holding together after 12 months just fine.

Put a light carabiner between the top of the mesh pocket at the top strap retaining loop for extra security, but honestly you could hang upside down for a week and the tent won't fall out. Extra tension of the sit pad obviously helps and is easy to get at for a quick sit down break.
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Re: Pack covers

Postby Warin » Tue 12 Oct, 2021 5:59 pm

CBee wrote:Exos + pack cover for me didn't work. Exos absorbing too much water on harness and cover getting caught on branches and scrub ecc. I find HMG southwest with liner better for wet TW.


What makes the HMG harness better water wise than the Exos? :?:
The Exos has some perforated stuff for cushioning and breathablity.. supposedly.
The HMG look to be non perforated - so less water absorption there? Trade off less comfortable in hot weather..

I have though of having the tent externally on the bottom of the pack - so when wet it drains without wetting the pack. For a protective enclosure the 210D HDPE Gridstop material looks ok, just need to be clever to let the water out and not in.
Last edited by Warin on Tue 12 Oct, 2021 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pack covers

Postby CBee » Tue 12 Oct, 2021 7:10 pm

"What makes the HMG harness better water wise than the Exos? "
Who knows. Waterproof material?
I tried both packs days in the rain. I ended up selling the exos. Also I found it uncomfortable and the belt pockets also small and not waterproof (not to mention the front stretchy pocket getting ripped by the scrub). But I'm talking SW Tasmania, so not the usual chilled trekking. I think I first got the Exos because attracted by the weight and I think overall, if you hike in semi-decent weather on friendly tracks and don't plan to carry too much weight, the Exos is good.
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Re: Pack covers

Postby Warin » Tue 12 Oct, 2021 9:09 pm

Some thoughts on a DIY pack cover. Not made one yet... so ideas only.

Material: Sil poly as it is reasonably cheap and doesn't absorb much water.

Design ..
Most just do the pack back.
I think something to cover the shoulders as well would reduce the water tricking down your back - and the pack. Perhaps with a hood too.

Attachment ... in use..
2 loops at the top that the load lifters go through - the load lifters need to be undone to get them through the loops, thus your pack cover is permanently on the pack at the top ready to use .. and won't easily go missing.
The usual elastic cord at the bottom?

Attachment .. storage..
Roll it up into a tube at the top of the pack - still attached to the load lifters. Two small elastic loops to fasten the tube roll so it does not unintentionally come undone.
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Re: Pack covers

Postby Dexter » Wed 13 Oct, 2021 8:22 am

Sounds like it could work well! So long as you don't care about using it to sit on or put stuff on while packing up like mentioned earlier.

Warin wrote:. I think something to cover the shoulders as well would reduce the water tricking down your back - and the pack. Perhaps with a hood too.


This would be interesting to see how it would go. You're almost getting into hybrid poncho pack cover territory.
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Re: Pack covers

Postby headwerkn » Wed 13 Oct, 2021 8:35 am

Warin wrote:What makes the HMG harness better water wise than the Exos? :?:


Not entirely sure but likely because they're thin and wide. Provided you get your back length fitted correctly they are immensely comfortable packs. Even my Arcteryx Bora AR - the supposed 'king' of comfortable, plush foam, full harness packs - isn't as good.
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Re: Pack covers

Postby GregG » Wed 13 Oct, 2021 10:54 am

Warin wrote:Some thoughts on a DIY pack cover. Not made one yet... so ideas only.

Material: Sil poly as it is reasonably cheap and doesn't absorb much water.

Design ..
Most just do the pack back.
I think something to cover the shoulders as well would reduce the water tricking down your back - and the pack. Perhaps with a hood too.

Attachment ... in use..
2 loops at the top that the load lifters go through - the load lifters need to be undone to get them through the loops, thus your pack cover is permanently on the pack at the top ready to use .. and won't easily go missing.
The usual elastic cord at the bottom?

Attachment .. storage..
Roll it up into a tube at the top of the pack - still attached to the load lifters. Two small elastic loops to fasten the tube roll so it does not unintentionally come undone.

I like your idea. I used to walk with a mate years ago whose life's obsession was staying dry and he invented a pretty simple poncho/cape along the lines you suggest, made out of sewn and glued blue polytarp! It seemed to work ok for him and he didn't sweat-out like others who wore rain jackets. It wasn't durable and it wasn't light. Personally I have never found pack covers to be much use and just use a plastic yard bag as a pack liner, I have never been let down by this. But I hear what you say about the annoyance of rain running down your back and wettin-out the back of your pack and your lower regions, damn irritating! Q: why do you need the two loops for the load risers, is it to hold the cover when not in use?
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Re: Pack covers

Postby wildwanderer » Wed 13 Oct, 2021 11:27 am

headwerkn wrote:
Warin wrote:What makes the HMG harness better water wise than the Exos? :?:


Not entirely sure but likely because they're thin and wide. Provided you get your back length fitted correctly they are immensely comfortable packs. Even my Arcteryx Bora AR - the supposed 'king' of comfortable, plush foam, full harness packs - isn't as good.


I like the hmg packs. The issue for me is they don't have the back ventilation that the exos has. I sweat buckets on my back whenever it's in contact with less breathable material.
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Re: Pack covers

Postby headwerkn » Wed 13 Oct, 2021 12:58 pm

wildwanderer wrote:I like the hmg packs. The issue for me is they don't have the back ventilation that the exos has. I sweat buckets on my back whenever it's in contact with less breathable material.


Yes that's a fair criticism. I sweat buckets regardless so just go with comfort ;-)

I will say for more technical climbing-walks eg. Western Arthurs having a pack that sits in tight against your back does help a lot with stability and confidence when hanging off vegetation and rocks. I notice with "traditional" harnesses just how far back your centre of gravity feels, compared to the HMG (and presumably any other more minimal pack).
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Re: Pack covers

Postby Dexter » Wed 13 Oct, 2021 1:06 pm

How do you find the durability? I use a DCF tent but always figured a pack would get bashed around more and have a lot higher chance of being punctured. I saw one US youtube video (who still uses a HMG pack) that said you could expect a DCF pack to last 1-2 thru hikes which put me off a bit. I thought the Exos would be a good compromise of weight/durability.
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Re: Pack covers

Postby headwerkn » Wed 13 Oct, 2021 3:59 pm

The DCF HMG use is quite thick and beefy, vastly stronger than the stuff used on tents.

I've only had one hole - more of a thinning of material - to repair, and that was caused by user stupidity, due to a sharp, badly stowed snow peg lip rubbing against the exterior for seven days straight. Small piece of repair tape fixed that in an instant and has held for nearly a year since.

One of the nice aspects of DCF is reparability; unlike sil nylon, the repair tape sticks fast and firm. We've had to repair one of our tents due to animal damage and while not always pretty, the repairs have been simple and always held strong.

Additionally the Hardline material used on the hip and side pockets of the Southwest and Junction are holding up very well, within minimal wear after a year. Even the elastic mesh on the back of my Junction is perfectly fine - I expected that to rip a bit after the Western Arthurs but it didn't. Pack has done plenty of off track work up Olympus, Nereus/Macs, Shakespeare etc. so hasn't been babied.

Definitely isn't white any more though hehe.
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Re: Pack covers

Postby Dexter » Wed 13 Oct, 2021 4:11 pm

Awesome. Good to know it's not the throw away product it was made to sound like in the video I saw. What tape do you use by the way? I probably should grab some at some point.
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Re: Pack covers

Postby norts » Wed 13 Oct, 2021 4:59 pm

My take on pack covers, I use a pack cover and liner.
Pack cover helps when taking stuff in and out of the pack when it is raining , I just have it thrown over the top. Also handy as a mini tarp, with wet ground. I also use it in the vestibule of my tent as a small tarp.
The pack cover isnt a replacement for a pack liner but an extra that has a multiple uses that make handling my gear in wet conditions a lot easier.
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