lightweight 1st aid kits??

[SteveJ]

My current first aid kit is the size and weight of a fruit cake, I am thinking I need to reduce this kit right down. What do people think are the minimum requirements for 5+ day walks?? Whats in your lightweight 1st aid kit?? I have read a few of the old post on this subject but am really intrested in the ultra light appraoch taken by the gram counters?

Regards
Steve

[climberman]

If you live in Bega, I have heard that all you need is a pair of panadol and a spot of Choppers HTFU for your morning cuppa. Is this true ?

[Tony]

Hi Steve,

Below is a list of my UL first aid kit, it weighs in at 37.7 grams. In snake season I would add a snake bit kit, I am waiting for the new special pressure bandages to come out. With this kit I am planning a 7 day AAWT walk. (Please read the warning at the end of the post)

2 x Antiseptic wipes, Crepe bandage, 2 x Butterfly wound closure strips
3 x Gastro stop tablets, 4 x Nurofen tablets, 4 x Panadeine tablets

Tony



WARNING:

Please be very careful when you start lightweight bushwalking.

The lightweight approach to lightweight bushwalking equipment described below is intended for a limited scope of environmental conditions and should not necessarily be relied upon in extremes of temperature or weather. Even during the heat of summer, the Australian Alps and South West Tasmania can offer snow and sub-freezing temperatures. You should be confident that you can use your equipment to deal with these conditions.

Therefore: You should not take a lightweight kit into high-mountain areas like the Australian Alps, or South West Tasmania without the knowledge and experience to use it. Not having the appropriate equipment, or unfamiliarity with lightweight backpacking techniques, could result in serious discomfort, injury, or death.

As with any serious outdoor pursuits, take your time learning and gaining experience: lighten your kit a bit at a time with judicious testing on short outings and in your backyard. Take backup equipment until you have confidence that your ultralight equipment will keep you warm and safe.

[corvus]

Hi Steve,

Below is a list of my UL first aid kit, it weighs in at 37.7 grams. In snake season I would add a snake bit kit, I am waiting for the new special pressure bandages to come out. With this kit I am planning a 7 day AAWT walk. (Please read the warning at the end of the post)

2 x Antiseptic wipes, Crepe bandage, 2 x Butterfly wound closure strips
3 x Gastro stop tablets, 4 x Nurofen tablets, 4 x Panadeine tablets

Tony



WARNING:

Please be very careful when you start lightweight bushwalking.

The lightweight approach to lightweight bushwalking equipment described below is intended for a limited scope of environmental conditions and should not necessarily be relied upon in extremes of temperature or weather. Even during the heat of summer, the Australian Alps and South West Tasmania can offer snow and sub-freezing temperatures. You should be confident that you can use your equipment to deal with these conditions.

Therefore: You should not take a lightweight kit into high-mountain areas like the Australian Alps, or South West Tasmania without the knowledge and experience to use it. Not having the appropriate equipment, or unfamiliarity with lightweight backpacking techniques, could result in serious discomfort, injury, or death.

As with any serious outdoor pursuits, take your time learning and gaining experience: lighten your kit a bit at a time with judicious testing on short outings and in your backyard. Take backup equipment until you have confidence that your ultralight equipment will keep you warm and safe.

G'day Tony,
Is this just a Day walk kit as with respect it seems a bit light on ,not even a Band aid or two,not looking for an argy bargy just seems a bit light for even a wekend walk.
On a recent weekender a Stroller suffered a severe laceration to a finger from rocks , the butterfly sutures would not have treated it properly ,what would you do in this situation.
Tony I have a workplace level two first aid certificate and would struggle to treat anyone with your minimal crepe bandage and two butterfly sutures for more than a bad rag nail.
I really think you need to reconsider as what you consider as a first aid kit as yours is IMHO only at the least good enough for an afternoon in the garden ,mate you are a good tinkerer manufacturer of stuff why skimp on the best tool repair kit you can however it is your body and life

[climberman]

Tony - what is this new pressure bandage of which you speak ?

[Nuts]

Ahhh! this old chestnut
It's endless string and a blurred boundary between what is needed to save a life, what would perhaps avoid the worst complications and what is needed for comfort..
This has been talked about before and i dont seem to recall anyone (who had studied first aid) willing to name any single item they couldn't necessarily do without....
Perhaps better to ask what one single item is considered 'most' important?
They taught that it was a triangular bandage when I trained but I suspect a large crepe bandage might be more useful in the worst and most immediate of bushwalking accidents.

[Ent]

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[Nuts]

'the lawyer proof first aid kit'

[Tony]

Hi Corvus

not even a Band aid

If you look at the picture I have included band aids but accidently left them off the list.

As for for what to take I think Nuts has put the relevant points well.

Hi Climberman,

Tony - what is this new pressure bandage of which you speak ?

I am unable to find any info on the net about them but I have been told about them.

One of the biggest problems with Snake bite pressure bandages is getting the pressure right, the bandages that I have been told about have patterns on them that change to other shapes when the pressure is correct, which I think is a great Idea. I have heard that they are expensive though.

When I find out more I will post the info.

Tony

[geoskid]

To be fair, the question was asked and Tony responded with HIS kit, with a responsible warning attached which covers
experience and location etc ( he does have a couple of bandaids in the picture - superfluous if you have wound closures and antiseptic wipes).
He can stop bleeding and he can ease the pain whilst continuing on or walking out.
Corvus - another way of looking at it - what life threatening injury would you suggest that Tony could'nt deal with, with his kit - bearing in mind what he has also covered in his WARNING - and that would'nt need a Helicopter ride even if you had a First Aid kit the size of three Fruit Cakes.

[SteveJ]

If you live in Bega, I have heard that all you need is a pair of panadol and a spot of Choppers HTFU for your morning cuppa. Is this true ?

Yes

[SteveJ]

Thanks for the comprehensive replies, some good discussion and plenty to think about. As Climberman will attest I tend to over cater on the 1st aid kit (apparently wheeling a crash cart through the wilderness is over kill???) I guess I need to be realistic about what is probable on a given walk and what can realistically be dealt with and cater to that - a balance.

Steve

[Son of a Beach]

From Tony's warning, I gather he's spent some time weighing up the pros and cons of including additional items and the risks of leaving them out. It seems that when it comes to first aid kits it's a matter of trying to cater for the most likely incidents as well as the most feasible-to-deal-with incidents out bush. After that it's a matter of how much faith you have in you own abilities and how much you're willing to risk. I note that Tony is merely telling us what he uses rather than suggesting it is a solution recommend for everyone.

I would not feel comfortable with such a small kit myself, but then I probably wouldn't know what to do with half of the stuff in my current first aid kit (which is already reasonably small compared to that of Brett or Corvus) so I too am uncertain what the ideal kit for me would be. Probably something in between my current kit and Tony's kit.

Probably even more useful to me would be to do another first aid course. I've forgotten pretty much all that I learned in the last one.

Anyone else got a light weight kit they can itemise here?

[corvus]

Ahhh! this old chestnut
It's endless string and a blurred boundary between what is needed to save a life, what would perhaps avoid the worst complications and what is needed for comfort..
This has been talked about before and i dont seem to recall anyone (who had studied first aid) willing to name any single item they couldn't necessarily do without....
Perhaps better to ask what one single item is considered 'most' important?
They taught that it was a triangular bandage when I trained but I suspect a large crepe bandage might be more useful in the worst and most immediate of bushwalking accidents.

G'day ,
Nuts why not explain how you would save a life withe a Band aid and a crepe bandage and your cavalier attitutude

[Ent]

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[Son of a Beach]

I think that's a reasonable list of things to cater for, Brett.

For myself, I carry sunscreen on some walks but not all, and never in my first aid kit (it probably varies from person to person, but for me the first aid kit is only for treatment not for prevention - prevention stuff is packed but not with the first aid stuff). I never take DEET and rarely take any insect repellant. When I do, again it's not it my first aid kit. For eye wash, I'd be happy to use any reasonably clean water the same as I do at home (can easilly be filtered for solid particles on the spot), so I'd be happy to leave it out of the first aid kit.

I never seem to have much luck with tweezers, and always do better with a needle or pin (at least when operating on myself). My current kit has tweezers, but I'd be happy to leave them out in favour of a needle. I could consider leaving out the needle, as it's not likely to be a matter of life and death, but would rather leave it in as it would weight almost nothing and has he potential to remove some serious discomfort and even pain (splinters).

[Nuts]

Ahhh! this old chestnut
It's endless string and a blurred boundary between what is needed to save a life, what would perhaps avoid the worst complications and what is needed for comfort..
This has been talked about before and i dont seem to recall anyone (who had studied first aid) willing to name any single item they couldn't necessarily do without....
Perhaps better to ask what one single item is considered 'most' important?
They taught that it was a triangular bandage when I trained but I suspect a large crepe bandage might be more useful in the worst and most immediate of bushwalking accidents.

G'day ,
Nuts why not explain how you would save a life withe a Band aid and a crepe bandage and your cavalier attitutude

and i thought i'd done well not to give any atatitude... besides, who said anything about a band-aid?


that pressure bandage sounds interesting Tony

[Ent]

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[Macca81]

i think that tony's kit is just about sufficient for most. in reality, there are few injuries that would be to serious to be dealt with using that kit that would still be able to be dealt with using a standard bushwalking kit. those few injuries would be things like broken bones which can be dealt with using a bit of improv. the fact of the matter is, that anything worse than a few cuts and bruises, and strains and sprains, is likely to require more than your measly 2kg 1st-aid kit can offer.

get a cut, blister, stick in the hand, tonys kit is adequate.
break a leg, use a cpl of sticks and some clothing from your pack to make a splint (i doubt most hike kits would have a SAM splint... so you would likely have to do this regardless of how extensive your kit is)
anything in between these 2 extremes... well i cant think of anything that tonys kit wont cover that wouldnt need a bigger than average kit at least, extraction at worst.

[johnw]

About the elasticised pressure immobilisation bandages. I've carried one for about 2 years, "Setopress" brand bought from St John Ambulance after a training course. It was about $30. They recommend and sell them as snake bite bandages but the original intended use is to treat venous leg ulcers. Some info here:
http://www.molnlycke.com.au/Global/Wound_Care_Products/UK/Product%20Sheets/Conventional/Setopress.pdf

[Tony]

Hi John,

About the elasticised pressure immobilisation bandages. I've carried one for about 2 years, "Setopress" brand bought from St John Ambulance after a training course. It was about $30. They recommend and sell them as snake bite bandages but the original intended use is to treat venous leg ulcers. Some info here:
http://www.molnlycke.com.au/Global/Wound_Care_Products/UK/Product%20Sheets/Conventional/Setopress.pdf

Thanks for that information, my bushwalking club is trying to buy a bulk order to get the cost down.

Tony

[climberman]

johnw - thanks for that information, will look to get one.

[photohiker]

Bandage looks good.

For snakebite, which pressure should be used, 30 or 40mmHg?

[Son of a Beach]

Hi Nik

Yeap with "first aid" I tend to consider anything doing with health being part of it along with spare bits and pieces so when I chuck it in a day or full pack everything is in the one place but strictly speaking sun screen and Deet are not for treatment but is not avoidance better than a cure .

I think a lot of people do likewise, and combine their first aid kit with a miscellaneous bits a pieces bag. It makes sense.

I deliberately don't do this, because I use the miscellaneous bits a pieces quite often (yabbie straw, compass and salt, mostly), and almost never use the first aid kit. So this way, I almost never have to get the first aid kit out at all (usually only for blisters, and even then it's usually for other people, not for me), but only have to get out the very small bag of bits and pieces. When I do carry sunscreen or insect repellant they go with the other bits and pieces rather than the first aid kit, as I'm likely to use them more than anything from the first aid kit. Also the first aid kit I have comes in a very neat self-contained package, which couldn't fit most of the other stuff in it anyhow.

In any case, when specifically comparing first aid kits for weight, it may be useful to exclude items that most people wouldn't consider to be for "first aid", even if most people do carry them when bushwalking, whether they actually store them in their first aid kit or not. Or otherwise it may be clearer to call the kit something other than a "first aid kit" just so that we know what we're comparing.

PS. Or maybe ask the origianl poster what he means when asking about a first aid kit. Just so that we're on the same page, so to speak. SteveJ, are you asking about strictly first aid items or also about other miscellaneous bits and pieces that might be stored with the first aid kit also?

[SteveJ]

You folks are champions at forum discusion, this is good stuff. Who keeps their epirb/plb with the first aid?

Steve

[geoskid]

It seems a lot of us go walking with enough first aid gear to fix up Justin Case if we were to ever run into him, and some would even put Mcguyver to shame in a tight spot with our bits and pieces bag of tricks.

[Tony]

There has been some very good discussion on this thread so far.

With the how much first aid kit do you take that debate, discussion, argument etc has been had on BW-T before I think there are several threads where it has been discussed and discussed and discussed including input from me, this thread in the weight reduction sub-forum is about what lightweight first aid kit do lightweight bushwalkers use and for respect to that topic I am only going to discuss lightweight first aid kits on this thread.

The first aid kit list and picture that I posted earlier in this post is one that I have put together for an UL walk on the AAWT that I have been planning for a while now, the walk is a solo walk from Tharwa to Thredbo via Kiandra and Mt Kosciuszko, the route is mostly on good walking tracks, fire/service trails, I know most of the area well and there are many bail out points. I expect to take about 7-8 days. I do not get blisters and am not prone to sprained ankles (I know this does not mean that I will not ever sprain an ankle, get blisters get sick or injured), in all of my twenty + years of walking including many walks off track in some rugged country I have used very little from my first aid kit and most of that has been used by other walkers that I have walked with and met.

Items like sun screen, insect repellant and soap are part of my personal hygiene kit.

If I was doing a 7 day walk in a remote wilderness area I would be taking a slightly different first aid kit.

Tony

[tasadam]

Interesting discussion.
The topic is titled "lightweight 1st aid kits".
What do you define as "lightweight"? Perhaps the definition would be "lighter than what you carry now".

Firstly, I think it is great that people offer their experiences here in good faith. I also think it is important that they should not be criticised for that, and for the most part, I think that has been achieved.
We are all here to learn from each other. Whether or not we agree with the methods of others, we should respect everyone is free to do what they want and carry (or not carry) whatever they want to, without criticism.

OK, my first aid kit (and other stuff) for a 15 day walk.
PLB, registered and details of trip intentions logged. Kept in the pack in the top pocket. Any trip away from camp / away from the pack, and the PLB was put in the chest pocket of my windstopper jacket. (So no, I do not keep my PLB with my first aid kit). Also, while in the tent, the PLB was always kept on the floor of the tent near the door, on the left, so that we both know where to find it in a hurry if we were unlucky enough to need it. (Every second could count in a real emergency, so why not do what you can eh?)

Swiss pocket knife has a toothpick and tweezers.

DEET, sunscreen, also a tube of skin moisturizer cream (I normally walk with my wife).

On to the First Aid kit.
Total weight 383 grams.
Two Glad sandwich bags, put in a palstic shopping bag and tied up with 2 rubber bands.
Put that in a shopping bag with a rubber band.
Put that in a shopping bag with 2 rubber bands.

Inside the sandwich bags -
(as I unwrap it beside me here...)
Bag 1 -
Tube of Betadine
Roll of Leukoplast (like elastoplast) - this has many uses but is rarely used. Last time I used it was to tape a heal that "might" have been getting a blister.
2 x "Heavy weight Crepe bandage" - long bandage 7.5cm x 2.3 metres unstretched. Good for snakebite, limb splinting, other such uses
Quantity of tablets -
- Panamax (good for headache / mild non-agressive pain relief)
- Nurofen Plus (good for more intense pain relief)
- Panadeine Forte (good for severe pain relief but the codeine may make one less stable on feet if tripping on it so mindful of careful use)
- Maxolon (for settling a tummy that wants to vomit)
- Antihistamine tablets (two types - small ones, one or two tablets a few times a day [may make you drowsy], also larger tablets, one a day and they don't make you drowsy)
(Normally would only have one type but just discovered the "non drowsy" ones)
- Nurofen (normally, but see below)

Quantity of tablets included depends on duration and intensity / remoteness of walk.

Bag 2 -
Conforming Elastic gauze bandage, 5cm x 4 metres stretched / 1.5M unstretched
Conforming Elastic gauze bandage, 7.5cm x 4 metres stretched / 1.5M unstretched
Emery board for nails
Scalpel blade with a couple of pins with large heads (good for digging foreign objects from skin / wounds)
Tube of SM33 gel (for mouth ulcers)
Quantity of Hypafix, a sheet of thin gauze-like stuff which has a peel-off sticky side, ok for direct application on wounds but prefer to put a gauze or similar on open wounds)
"Handy" brand No. 5609 Triangular bandage, 110 x 110 x 155 cm
Quantity of sterile single use non-adherent absorbent dressings (to put over open wounds before taping or using the Hypafix to attach) (qty 5 @ 5x5cm, qty 1 @ 7.5 x 10cm)
Qty sterile gauze swabs
A plastic bag containing a large number of normal band aids and elastoplast type band aids, and waterproof ones as well, also a quantity of cotton wool buds (on sticks) to clean out ears and the like.
Two tiny packets of salt like what they have in fast food shops. Likely use for replenishing body of salt if diet was inadequate. Also, if a leech got into a place where the "fingernail scrape to remove" method was not possible, a salt solution could be made.

Only other thing I carry with me that can be classed as 1st aid is a small plastic bottle of nurofen tablets to control / manage my feet problems - in short they are stuffed and I see a specialist in Melbourne in February, so any walk I do is done with pain management. A note about this, take nurofen with food as it can be agressive on the stomach wall (heartburn / ulcers / hiatus hernia etc). Also, nurofen would normally be in the 1st aid kit as well, as it is an anti-inflammatory. Good to help settle inflamed knees if it happens, and the like. For example, a couple with dinner and they work overnight, the knees can be good to go again. Perhaps a couple again with breakfast if it's going to be a non knee-friendly day.

That's it. Fairly light weight for what I have, better not to need, but important to have.
There has to be a limit to what you can carry, and improvising is what would be required should a situation arise where a need wasn't covered.
But you cannot really cover for everything, can you?

[SteveJ]

Great post Adam, I would leave my 1st aid kit at home if I was walking with you .

As Tony rightly pointed out, my question was specific to lightweight/UL. I am tending to do more activity based walking nowdays which means the inlcusion of toys like an Alpacka packraft, fishing gear etc, some of these trips are begining to push out in days and distance also so I need to loss grams (kilos) in other areas to accomadate the added 'toy' weight. Another consideration is that the risk of injury is increased by the additional activities (rafting, fishing etc), so whilst I am cutting to save weight I need to consider the increased risks, it's all about striking a balance.

Steve

[Ent]

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