Bushwalk Australia

I was in a hiking store here in Sydney recently and a sales guy told me that Australian snakes can't bite through gaiters because they have short fangs?

He wasn't joking either.

Can anyone comment on this?

Don't know and not keen to test this theory.

Tasmanian snakes have grooved fangs to deliver the poison which isn't quite as efficient as hollow ("hypodermic") fangs.

MJD wrote:Don't know and not keen to test this theory.

Tasmanian snakes have grooved fangs to deliver the poison which isn't quite as efficient as hollow ("hypodermic") fangs.

It is possible in older snakes I believe for the groves to meet up and in fact become injecting fangs good thing though is that our Tassie Snakes are rather shy and only make their presence known if you surprise them /try to kill them (prohibited as they are protected) or be unlucky / silly enough to stand on one
corvus

Steve73 wrote:I was in a hiking store here in Sydney recently and a sales guy told me that Australian snakes can't bite through gaiters because they have short fangs?

He wasn't joking either.

Can anyone comment on this?

Would not like to test this theory especially with Nylon Gaiters and say the likes of a Taipan or King Brown which we dont have down here in Tassie
corvus

Ive got the same line in a boo somewhere about Tasmanian snakes having stud type fangs.
But then theres a snake handler down the peninsula who reakons a large tiger snake could get through a boot let alone gaitors,

As everyone has said so far i really really never ever ever want to find out.......

Sounds like an urban legend to me.

My memory ain't what it used to be, but I think I recall the snake-handling guy at the Longford show last year saying that snakes can bite through gaiters if they're determined enough.

I'm sure they'd have no trouble biting through gaiters. I think the theory is that they might deliver the venom to the space between the gaiter and the leg rather then into the skin or flesh. I only made this up though - just an assumption. So may be completely wrong.

MJD wrote:Don't know and not keen to test this theory.

Tasmanian snakes have grooved fangs to deliver the poison which isn't quite as efficient as hollow ("hypodermic") fangs.

According to one researcher, this is a myth: Bush on Fangs

Bush wrote:In the fangs of all front-fanged snakes there is the non-functional, enamel-sealed, anterior seam. It is an irrelevant groove.

When I used to work for Forestry in WA, we had to wear gaiters in the bush to avoid snake bite whenever we worked in swampy bush (the 80's). They were the old style canvas ones and those I can vouch for thanks to the cooperation of cranky tiger snake! Thankfully it was someone elses leg, not mine.

Currently I have an old pair of nylon Tatonka ones that I'd bet a snake couldn't bite through, but I also have a pair of sea to summit ones that I wouldn't be so sure of!

woka wrote:
Currently I have an old pair of nylon Tatonka ones that I'd bet a snake couldn't bite through, but I also have a pair of sea to summit ones that I wouldn't be so sure of!

StS are rubbish! Where did you get the Tatonka ones from?

ILUVSWTAS wrote:

woka wrote:
Currently I have an old pair of nylon Tatonka ones that I'd bet a snake couldn't bite through, but I also have a pair of sea to summit ones that I wouldn't be so sure of!

StS are rubbish! Where did you get the Tatonka ones from?

It was that long ago, I don't even remember. They're quite thick, and get hot underneath in summer, but I feel much safer in them (I almost always wear shorts).

Im just sick of having to buy new gaiters every few months

Thanks guys. It sounded highly dubious to me so just wanted to get some opinions. I agree with others in hoping never to find out!

photohiker wrote:

MJD wrote:Don't know and not keen to test this theory.

Tasmanian snakes have grooved fangs to deliver the poison which isn't quite as efficient as hollow ("hypodermic") fangs.

According to one researcher, this is a myth: Bush on Fangs

Bush wrote:In the fangs of all front-fanged snakes there is the non-functional, enamel-sealed, anterior seam. It is an irrelevant groove.

Does that mean I am correct and the fangs can close up .
coevus

corvus wrote: Does that mean I am correct and the fangs can close up .
coevus

I don't think so, but I'm no expert, I keep my distance...

Bush on Fangs wrote:All have hollow, tubular fangs caused by a continuation of the dentine across the anterior seam. This may have been open in its ancestral state.

[..]

Remember though! In the fangs of all front-fanged snakes there is the non-functional, enamel-sealed, anterior seam. It is an irrelevant groove.

He seems to be saying that the groove is a leftover from ancient times and is non-functional as the fang is hollow. The snake has both the hypodermic hollow fang delivery system and the non-functional groove.

His email is on the link if you wanted to check...

I have recently purchased a pair of StoS gaiters, look awesome, I've always known StoS to be a reputable brand so I'm confident they'll hold up fine. I'd be surprised if a snake got through them, but even if they did its better than a bare leg.

breminator98 wrote:I have recently purchased a pair of StoS gaiters, look awesome, I've always known StoS to be a reputable brand so I'm confident they'll hold up fine. I'd be surprised if a snake got through them, but even if they did its better than a bare leg.

My bet is you'll be eating those words in less than a year. StoS gaiters just aint what they once were

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Brett ,
The stitching on mine looks to be OK and double stitched ?? whatever that means however I am
not totally convinced that WE (Ian) has got it 100% correct this time IMHO
Goodish Canvas Gaiters never the less.
corvus

"None of the Tasmanian snake species can truly inject poison, relying instead on it flowing down a groove in the fangs. However, in old snakes the groove overgrows forming a hollow tooth."

from

http://www.dpipwe.tas.gov.au/inter.nsf/ ... Snakes.pdf

On the subject of gaiters. Most seem to have a velcro join at the front that always falls to bits. I had a pair of Karrimor Gaiters from many years ago that had the join at the back, which seemes to be a lot more sensible. Do such gaiters still exist..... must check the internet....

ILUVSWTAS wrote:

woka wrote:
Currently I have an old pair of nylon Tatonka ones that I'd bet a snake couldn't bite through, but I also have a pair of sea to summit ones that I wouldn't be so sure of!

StS are rubbish! Where did you get the Tatonka ones from?

I just saw some Tatonka gaiters at Allgoods - I need a new pair, and given the poor reviews given StoS here, I might give them a go.

You guys might like these Cactus climbing gear from New Zealand. Their packs are bomb-proof and have an underground cult following. There is a guy based in Hotham (?) in Vic who now brings them in, but straight from NZ works fine. The Patrol pack and Deepwinter packs are classics.

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ILUVSWTAS wrote:

breminator98 wrote:I have recently purchased a pair of StoS gaiters, look awesome, I've always known StoS to be a reputable brand so I'm confident they'll hold up fine. I'd be surprised if a snake got through them, but even if they did its better than a bare leg.

My bet is you'll be eating those words in less than a year. StoS gaiters just aint what they once were

From where I'm standing now, ie with the gaiters back at StoS for some repairs, a year seems an exaggeration even!

What happened was the scuff pads on the inside (the ones that protect the material on the inside of the legs around the ankles) had lost about 40% of the stitching holding them on. Also, the laces hook had seperated from the gaiters on one side after only 5 days, the other side just hanging on. The buckle for the heel strap was also bent to a ridiculous U-shape.

StoS' reply: First they charged me $10 for sending back 'dirty' gaiters. I had spent a god 40mins cleaning them with a steel wire brush beforehand and I thought they were *&%$#! clean enough... anyway. They were happy to repair the stitching but said I would have to pay for the bent buckle because I must have stood on it. This annoyed me a little because they were (obviously) wrapped around my legs the whole time, and in any case I expected a bit more durability from them!

As well, a tip: check that the end of the velcro strap doesn't rub behind your legs as mine did.

Overall, yes it was a tough trip, but I expected a lot more than that from some brand-new gaiters. At least (I'm happy to say) StoS have repaired them free of charge (except that $10 ) so they're honest.

Interesting, Ive gone thru 3 or 4 pairs in the last 12 months. I might start sending them back if they will repair them.....

I've gone through 3 pairs of S2S Quagmire in the last 12 months. At $70 a pop, this is just *&^%$#!. They should be $30-$40 considering how quickly they wear under proper bushwalking use.

I'm currently using seam seal to fix the stiching down the front. Bugger the scuff pads, they're coming off.

ajlscott is currently field testing some Cactus gaiters, still waiting for a sufficient test sample though. They do look like he's wearing bell bottoms or flairs though, so that's a bit of a plus or minus depending on your point of view...

PS: I LOLed at the dirty gaiters, even after scrubbing. I know what you mean. Do they think we just don't wear them in the bush or something?!

They've gotta be honest Brem as they probably receive hundreds of pairs in returns every month!
A bit hard not to be humbled by your own poor design team I'd imagine.

I have had numerous pairs overv the past few years & have had all the same problems mentioned, usually the first to go is the stitching down the front.
I last tried some of the WE (a STS subsidiary company?) Bush Gaiters, apparently designed for the harshest of conditions; the harshest of conditions walking to your local cafe maybe, they were falling apart after only a couple of hard off track walks, not much better than the regular STS Quagmires really + they were really hot. I did like the stiffener which runs down the front of them tho, keeps them standing tall & maybe lessens a little of the scrub to shin soreness.

I have gone back to STS Gore Tex Quagmires, again, momentarily, as they are the most comfortable (in summer conditions).
After only 1 walk tho ( 8 days along the Southern Ranges / SCT) yes, the buclkes are doing that U shaped thing (from boulders / rock scrambling) & surprise. surprise, the stitching is already starting to fail. They were comfortable in the 38 degree heat tho. I think their design is basically ok, just need a lot of refinement in quality of materials, thread & quantity of stitching (ie. at least double, preferably triple stitching).

Why is it so hard for manufacturers to make decent gaiters. They really are quite simple. I've got some old "Adventure Designs" gaiters that must be nearly 10 years old, and have seen a lot of use, and are only now starting to fall apart. I've no idea what I'm going to replace them with, and there doesn't seem to be anything near as good on the market (at least in Tasmania). They only cost me $10, and I have never had to put on a strap under the boot at all, as they never ride up the leg (well, just once they did), and they never fall down at the top.

How hard can it possibly be?

If I can find the right fabric, I'd make a pattern of my current gaiters, and get my wife (seamstress) to sew up some new replicas.

Son of a Beach wrote:Why is it so hard for manufacturers to make decent gaiters.

And not charge a premium for them! $70 for basic canvas is highway robbery.