Should I rent out my tent?

[jdeks]

Okay - not sure if this is in the right spot, but considering it's in the 'contemplative' stage, I figured this is the forum for discussion/expression of interest at this point.

So the short version is: I'm **considering** the **concept** of offering my MLD Cricket Ultralight tent out for established forum members to hire. For those who dont know, the Cricket is a one-man, bug-netted, 800g silnylon tarp-tent with surprising storm resistance. More info here: http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/sh ... cts_id=174


Now, Im sure eyebrows are raised and fingers twitching already, but before you jump on me with all the reasons why this is a terrible idea (and I know, there are maaany), let me outline my idea first.

First off, I'm not sure if such a thing breaks any forum rules regarding commercial enterprising on the Bushwalk forum. I can't find anything myself that indicates thus, and I dont see in principle how it's much different to 'flea-market' style transactions of mutual agreement. I'm not exactly planning on setting up a business out of this, the scope will remain at a single tent, and no more. But I'm sure the mods will let me know if that is verboten.

Providing it's kosher, my broad idea is that I start a thread up where people can post up with dates they need a tent (say, a week block?). Assuming it's available, I can have a look at the persons profile, swap a few PMs/phone calls, and once I'm satisfied they're not going to wreck the thing, I can post up on the thread that it's taken for that period.

Myself and the individual then arrange post/pickup. We do a short contract of agreement (similar to what you'd do if privately selling a car), take photos of the tent to establish present condition, and I take a deposit and the hire costs (via Cash On Delivery for a postal job).

Person then uses the tent, posts it back, and I have a look. If it's undamaged, I return the deposit, happy days. If it's got something minor, I take a photo, let em know and we subtract repair costs from the deposit. If it's major, I keep the deposit. If it's a write-off, or they don't send it back at all....well, this is why I want to keep it 'in the family' of the forum so to speak. There's definitely an element of trust here. That said, I will obviously have their name and details...


So - why am I even thinking about this?

Well, believe it or not, it's not just about making a quick buck. I've lost count of the number of times I've met other hikers, slugging 4kg dome monstrosities from Anaconda around the bush, and seen the pain in their eyes when I pull out a tent that weighs less than their boot. Very often, what I hear is "I'd love to try and get into UL hiking, but I can't justify the expense for 3 hikes a year". Which is a fair cop - the cricket is almost a $500 tent now, by the time it gets to your door.

I'm not using it enough now to justify that $500 either (Trailstar has spoiled me), but rather than try and sell it on to another cashed-up kid and get my money back, I figure maybe I can recoup some of my investment while also giving the more 'casual' hiker a go at trying some nice UL kit, without breaking the bank.

Not sure what I'd charge exactly ($20 for a week + $200 deposit?) but more interested in the concept at this stage.

Let the flaming begin.

[slparker]

What a great idea.

As you say getting into UL territory is a daunting prospect and the 'try before you buy' idea of it appeals to me. And, as you say, it is hard to justify expensive kit if you only get out for the odd overnight walk so it would appeal to the experienced walker that wants light kit but can't justify the up-front cost.

I do appreciate the altruism behind it, even if you do make a few bucks on the side.

[north-north-west]

Sounds like a damn good idea.

[JohnStrider]

The Air BNB for tents. Love it. No one is going to knock you for it mate.

[Gadgetgeek]

There might be a few other folks in the same boat, so if it did become sort of a semi-formalized thing, just as other forums have pass-arounds, and pay-it-forwards, it might be worth the community putting together a bit of boilerplate that we all agree with, so that it stays on the same terms.

[CasualNerd]

I think the same thing every time I buy something expensive that doesn't get used much. (I'm looking at you snowshoes !)

It would be great for the times of the year when the few places that do rent gear are booked out. Maybe there needs to be a refundable deposit to cover against damage ?

[taipan821]

I see this snowballing, because I go on day hikes with people who love the experience, but can't afford the gear.

Maybe this forum will end up getting a pool of equipment that members own and rent out to new people to try out. renting a hammock, a UL tarp, a multifuel expedition stove etc might be a way for members who put the coin down for the purchase, also might get products made by members out there and experienced by a larger audience?

I'm up for renting out some of my gear, would help me recoup some of the costs and help me replace gear with better stuff, which I can then rent out etc etc etc

[undercling-mike]

It's a very interesting idea that could gain some traction. Of course there are potential problems and issues but probably the best way to sort them out is to try it and see how it goes and modify the scheme as necessary.

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

I don't think I could do it. I know you have good intentions of having a system in place for damage, but just fair wear and tear will see your equipment degraded quickly.

Every time I loan stuff to people (even close friends/family) with strict instructions on care, something always comes back scratched or bent or wrecked.Many people just don't look after stuff if it's not theirs - they believe paying a hire fee entitles them to not treat it as if it were their own.

But just because I couldn't do it doesn't mean you shouldn't. Sounds like a very nice way to give back the community, especially as the price of gear just keeps going up.

Very noble and unselfish, and I hope you don't get burnt.

Would have been very helpful for me when upgrading my shelter earlier this year to try a few out in real world conditions for a small fee.

[jdeks]

Well heck, this is much more positive than I expected. Says something about the other forum I frequent...

I don't think I could do it. ...
Every time I loan stuff to people (even close friends/family) with strict instructions on care, something always comes back scratched or bent or wrecked.Many people just don't look after stuff if it's not theirs - they believe paying a hire fee entitles them to not treat it as if it were their own.

Not gonna lie, a lot of my own concerns run along this line.


I'd agree that for Joe/sephine Public, the "I paid for it, I can trash it, it's not gonna hurt anyone" attitude is prevalent (case in point, rental cars). But I dont know if you'd find many folks here with that attitude towards this sort of kit.

The dynamic here (group forum ) is a little different from just a stranger in a commercial agreement with a business, and the nature of the central interest seems to draw a fairly placid, responsible, respectable type of person. There's some element of familiarity, community, and a certain extent of accountability....I'd hope it works the other way - people take the extra effort to be careful with it, because they know it's good kit, its not theirs, its a little bit of a privilege, and they dont want to be THAT GUY who ruins it for everyone else (and gets called out on the forum for it).

That said, I have very good friends whom I'd trust with my life, but wouldn't loan a brick to - their idea of 'taking care' of kit is just chuck it wherever, sort it whenever (never), get a new one when you go to use it 2 years later and can find the bits or they're all rusted up. The 'well intentioned hard-wearer' could be the problem here. The bugnet floor in particular is definitely not a 'pitch-and-plop' grade silnylon and needs care appropriate to the surface.

But realistically, a few holes ins't the end of the world, if people 'fess up and pay for the patches. My own experiences with MLD kit is that it's remarkably hard wearing. I sat out a thunderstorm, with an incorrect pitch and a sharp snapped stick as a centerpole gouging into the wall of my Trailstar. Basically the worst thing you could do short of deliberately trying to wreck it. The repair? $10 of silnylon and sealant, and that's lasted 3 years since. I still look at the patch and feel guilty, but it's had literally zero effect on its function (hence why the cricket gets no use...).

I highly doubt folks here would be the type to get drunk and try and use it as a hammock or a parasail, and anything short of that I'm inclined to trust that folk here would do the right thing and it would be remedied fairly easily.

The more curly situations are ones like "My pack got stolen", "Got blown away in a storm" or other such unlucky turns of events. Do I keep the deposit, which effectively splits the loss between me and the renter? Still leaves me out of pocket, but can't well go and ask someone to pay extra for a tent they didn't even get to use, and it's a bit low value to start talking insurance.

There might be a few other folks in the same boat, so if it did become sort of a semi-formalized thing, just as other forums have pass-arounds, and pay-it-forwards, it might be worth the community putting together a bit of boilerplate that we all agree with, so that it stays on the same terms.

This would be great, BUT I think it's very important that each bit of kit is managed solely and independently by the respective owners

My experience with 'group kit' even in small groups (eg scouts) was that once people stop identifying a specific owner to which they have to explain to any wear and tear to, the aforementioned "not my kit, not my problem" mentality comes into play. I've seen $300 packs ruined in the space of a year by Duke of Ed hiking groups who saw no problem hucking the 'schools' backpacks down gullies and out of moving vehicles, even though they were donated by a private individual.

I have other stuff I could conceivably provide with the tent: UL Mattresses, stoves, ice and snow gear. But I dont want any of this stuff being seen as owned or provided by the vague and faceless "Bushwalk.com". If you trash my stuff - and make no mistake, it is my stuff - you will be dealing with me.

[Nuts]

Iv'e found it as well, bushwalkers are generally pretty good with gear (we hire a bit of lightweight kit here and there). Some pieces are more prone to damage than others, careful instruction can help to a certain extent. I do tend to think you'll need a bigger platform than BWA (if one existed for such gear), bigger range, co-op approach.. unless happy with perhaps a flurry then a couple of times a year?

What would concern me is the high end kit, it's delicacy, and any real sense of attachment. You can get 10 good rentals and one disaster... so it helps to see gear as expendable, purely in terms of $ % return V cost (even if initial notions of altruism are commendable). Something that is going to be hard given the starting point (personal gear, chosen carefully and appreciated more than its $ value).


Good concept though, good luck.

[Gadgetgeek]

jdeks, I agree with you on most points there. I guess when i say formalized, maybe its more of a expectations rather than contract, as in, the owner of this gear expects this, and another owner expects that, this is all okay with the community. I would certainly do what I could to keep my own peace of mind. The reality is that more of the gear would be rented by more inexperienced walkers in most cases, but there are plenty of experienced folks who know they only do one four season trip every couple of years for example, or find themselves short a bit of kit and don't really want to fork out for something that might not see a second use. Its also a question of what the market will support. Lets say I decide that I want a 50% of new cost as a damage deposit, I might never have that item move. That might be okay with me, to someone else they might accept more risk. If you like pristine gear with no damage, no one is asking you to share your toys, and I don't mean that with any disrespect, some folks are happy to let gear be lived in, or maybe have gear that will age out before they use it up.

On the topic of group gear getting trashed, yep, I've seen it. but its more of a case of the group culture. I've worked for both kinds of places, places that look after gear and places that don't. And yes, like you, you break my stuff, you deal with me. But I think with that as an expectation in our group here, then its all out in the open.

[jdeks]

Righto, still havent convinced myself this is a terrible idea yet, so:

What do folks think is a reasonable price structure?

I'm assuming most people will want it for a weekend - namely Fri/Sat/Sun, return Mon ? But theres bound to be the odd weekday hiker, and the odd week+ hiker. So - I WAS thinking a flat ' $x per week' rate. You get it on a Monday, you have all week to put it up and play with it in the backyard, you do you weekend hike and give it back on Monday. Problem with this is that someone only out for Saturday night pays the same as someone who spends 7 days tramping round the Prom, arguably subjecting it to 7x more fair wear and tear .

So I'm now thinking I do it on a per night-in-use basis - meaning night one is the first night it gets pitched. This way folks dont have to pay for a week if they can only pick up on a Tuesday or something, BUT still only pay for the wear the tent gets subjected to. Of course, relies a bit on people being honest, but heck, the whole idea does so.... For a week or longer, I do it in week blocks at a discounted rate, and it starts the week you get your hands on it.

So how much?? Well, Bogong rent these suckers for $50 per weekend (p/u thu, return Mon), $75 a week: http://www.bogong.com.au/tents-3/hiking ... 1-tent.htm l. They're bout the same value, but half a kilo heavier and a bit smaller inside.

Right now, I'm thinking $15 per night used ( ie $30 for a Fri/Sat camping out ), $50 for a week, and $200 deposit. I know, that's a big deposit. But it's a $500 tent, and you get it back (assuming I get my tent back). I live in the stick, so bets are a lot of this is going to be done by post. The most complicated issue right now is how to move the money about safely.

I know for many, the first thought might be PayPal, but after a few recent negative experiences, I've had a very careful look at the buyer protection T&C, and they wont cover rental-deposity things like this (they're actually really good and not covering things you think they would....). For a renter looking to make sure they get what they pay for from me, *I* wouldn't be happy using paypal, because if things went south, I'm 99% sure paypal would take their fee and wash their hands of it.

The next option is Cash On Delivery, with would work great, but at $13 per delivery on top of postage ($12 each way, minimum), someone renting a tent for a weekend will basically be paying Auspost twice what they do for the tent. Final option is good ol direct deposit, which again brings the trust issue in to play.

The best compromise I can come up with right now is:

-I send the tent by Cash On Delivery. When the tent arrives, renter pays $13.05 CoD fee plus $12 postage, plus rent fee, plus $200 deposit.
- Renter posts the tent back when they're done (another $12), I direct deposit the $200 back when I get it back and inspect it.

This leaves the renter paying about $37 PLUS the rent costs for the tent. So for a Fri/Sat/Sun weekender, it's $67, posted to you.

What do folks think?

[Moondog55]

What do the larger businesses that have a rental side charge?
I've been happy to loan out some of my gear in the past but I'm not sure I'd be happy loaning out big ticket items where the deposit won't cover replacement or repair

[jdeks]

What do the larger businesses that have a rental side charge?
I've been happy to loan out some of my gear in the past but I'm not sure I'd be happy loaning out big ticket items where the deposit won't cover replacement or repair

So how much?? Well, Bogong rent these suckers for $50 per weekend (p/u thu, return Mon), $75 a week: http://www.bogong.com.au/tents-3/hiking ... 1-tent.htm l. They're bout the same value, but half a kilo heavier and a bit smaller inside.

[tastrax]

Other problem with post is that its getting slower and slower. You will need to factor in the postal time as 'lost revenue days'.

In my case I have been waiting 7 days for a small item (envelope size) to come from WA CBD to Tas CBD - $12.00 postage charged and its still in Victoria according to the tracking.

[jackattack]

My 2.6 kilo MSR Elixir 2 is not a 4 kg dome tent from anaconda, but it is far from not being bulky or light and I cant afford a new tent.In theory i think it is an excellent Idea. I am struggling money wise and can not afford a light weight tent. Issue is, for me at least, I have bad luck and I am hard on my gear. Not deliberately hard, just *&%$#! happens and I would hate to have to explain I'd wrecked somebody's tent. So the person like me, who could probably make good use of the service would be hesitant as there is no way i could afford the tent if i busted it. I would suggest having no emotional attachment to the item rented, with the understanding *&%$#! happens. I think it would be a great service to the forum community, would consider renting out my PLB and etrex 30.

[jdeks]

Yep, its a good point you raise there. Bit of a catch 22 - If you can't afford to buy one, can you afford the excess if you rent one.

I 'm not afraid of using my gear either. Like I mentioned earlier, I put a hole through my faithful trailstar doing all the wrong things in a thunderstoorm a few years back, and that cost about $15 to fix. If someone did the same to the cricket, I doubt very much I'd keep the deposit.

The one I'm worried about is someone who has their car torched, pack nicked, Aus Post loses it or some other unlucky incident in which the tent doesnt come back at all, though no fault of their own. In that case, someone's gotta eat the cost....best I can think is a 50/50 split (ie I keep the $200 depsit). Sucks, but no other way I can think of. Unlikely scenarios though.

I'm still concerned over the postage costs too. The $67 total for a weekend, using CoD Post, seems like a pretty average deal for both parties, with Aus Post getting the lions share of the $$$. Again though, unavoidable if people dont live within driving distance.

Question: would anyone even actually consider paying $67 for a Fr/Sat/Sun tent rental, delivered to them?

[taipan821]

I think the whole idea of renting lightweight camping gear would be a hobby, essentially helping new people out until they get their own gear.

as for $67 for a fri/sat/sun rental...if I was looking at buying that tent the $67 I spend living with it for a weekend can be justified if I find out I hate it,

[Violet_Femme]

Hi jdeks,

I know this thread was from a while ago, but did you end up trying out this idea? I was half heartedly thinking about it given I may have items I may be open to renting out (but scared about them being wrecked). I have seen ads on Marketplace for people to 'rent' out their kayaks and various platform like this https://www.geckoonline.com.au/ or https://www.federent.com/ that have popped up in the past few years.

I'd be interested to hear other people's experiences of this as well.

Violet

Okay - not sure if this is in the right spot, but considering it's in the 'contemplative' stage, I figured this is the forum for discussion/expression of interest at this point.

So the short version is: I'm **considering** the **concept** of offering my MLD Cricket Ultralight tent out for established forum members to hire. For those who dont know, the Cricket is a one-man, bug-netted, 800g silnylon tarp-tent with surprising storm resistance. More info here: http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/sh ... cts_id=174


Now, Im sure eyebrows are raised and fingers twitching already, but before you jump on me with all the reasons why this is a terrible idea (and I know, there are maaany), let me outline my idea first.

First off, I'm not sure if such a thing breaks any forum rules regarding commercial enterprising on the Bushwalk forum. I can't find anything myself that indicates thus, and I dont see in principle how it's much different to 'flea-market' style transactions of mutual agreement. I'm not exactly planning on setting up a business out of this, the scope will remain at a single tent, and no more. But I'm sure the mods will let me know if that is verboten.

Providing it's kosher, my broad idea is that I start a thread up where people can post up with dates they need a tent (say, a week block?). Assuming it's available, I can have a look at the persons profile, swap a few PMs/phone calls, and once I'm satisfied they're not going to wreck the thing, I can post up on the thread that it's taken for that period.

Myself and the individual then arrange post/pickup. We do a short contract of agreement (similar to what you'd do if privately selling a car), take photos of the tent to establish present condition, and I take a deposit and the hire costs (via Cash On Delivery for a postal job).

Person then uses the tent, posts it back, and I have a look. If it's undamaged, I return the deposit, happy days. If it's got something minor, I take a photo, let em know and we subtract repair costs from the deposit. If it's major, I keep the deposit. If it's a write-off, or they don't send it back at all....well, this is why I want to keep it 'in the family' of the forum so to speak. There's definitely an element of trust here. That said, I will obviously have their name and details...


So - why am I even thinking about this?

Well, believe it or not, it's not just about making a quick buck. I've lost count of the number of times I've met other hikers, slugging 4kg dome monstrosities from Anaconda around the bush, and seen the pain in their eyes when I pull out a tent that weighs less than their boot. Very often, what I hear is "I'd love to try and get into UL hiking, but I can't justify the expense for 3 hikes a year". Which is a fair cop - the cricket is almost a $500 tent now, by the time it gets to your door.

I'm not using it enough now to justify that $500 either (Trailstar has spoiled me), but rather than try and sell it on to another cashed-up kid and get my money back, I figure maybe I can recoup some of my investment while also giving the more 'casual' hiker a go at trying some nice UL kit, without breaking the bank.

Not sure what I'd charge exactly ($20 for a week + $200 deposit?) but more interested in the concept at this stage.

Let the flaming begin.