Winter sleeping bags

[kyubi]

I'm shopping for a new sleeping bag for my partner who currently owns a mountain hardwear phantasia 32/0°C bag which she always gets cold in..

What i'd like to know is, how do the local brands compare to the better international brands? I'm looking at the Mont Zeal Hyd-Xt women's sleeping bag vs something like the Mountain Hardwear Phantom 0. The Mont will cost about $200 more (found a sale price on the phantom) but I can pick it up in store which is a plus.

Any thoughts or other suggestions? The phantom isn't a women's sleeping bag but I don't know how much that matters..

[paul_gee]

When comparing EN-rated sleeping bags, generally you're dealing on a pretty level playing field. The most important factor when it comes to sleeping bag 'ratings' and warmth, though, is the sleeper.

As you're probably aware, sleeping bag fill doesn't generate warmth. Just as fuel and oxygen doesn't generate fire without an ignition (heat). It's the sleeper that brings the warmth to the equation, which then 'activates' the fill and the function of the bag.

It might be worth going with a warmer bag if the current bag isn't up to task. That said, the design of the Plantasia could have something to do with it - is it just cold, or are there cold spots?

I've had experience with One Planet, Sea to Summit, Mont, Black Wolf, and Coleman bags, personally and professionally. And, I'll be completely honest when I say this, I think Sea to Summit offer the best - and most complete - range of bags in the Australian market. I shan't influence you too much through fear of coming across too commercial (there are plenty of others here who will soon share their opinions and preferences I am sure), but check out the sort of ratings and cuts that you're after in the S2S range and see if they stack up.

As to whether women's-shaped sleeping bags matter:

- Women tend to sleep colder, and the EN 13537 testing takes that into consideration; and
- The designs factor in that women tend to have narrower shoulders and wider hips.

Hope that helps.

[johnrs]

Kyubi
Have a look at the Cumulus Panyam 600.
About $400 from Poland, similar to the western Montaineering Alpinlite.
John
http://sleepingbags-cumulus.eu/uk/categ ... d=59&vid=6

[Zapruda]

Hi Kyubi,

Mont bags are fantastic and designed very well.

But I agree with paul_gee. Sea to summit bags are the best I have used. Built extremely well and priced fairly.

As far as comparisons between Australian and international brands, I see them as equals. Mont bags are used in expeditions from Antartica to Everst. They will hold up in our mild conditions. Their warranty is first class as well, I have even heard of them restuffing bags after a few years.

You definitely can't go wrong with either S2S or Mont.

Good luck

[kyubi]

Thanks for the detailed responses guys, much appreciated. I'm going to go check a few out in person and go from there.

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[AWTtrekker]

I have just ordered a Sea to Summit Talus. It's rated at -17 but as an EN rating my understanding is that is probably equivalent to a comfort rating (which Mont uses instead) of -9 for a woman. I feel the cold also while sleeping and am planning an alpine walk with it in spring but things can go either way then sometimes! I'd rather unzip a side on a warm night than shiver on a cold one. At only 1.2kg I am looking forward to trying it out!

[paul_gee]

I have just ordered a Sea to Summit Talus. It's rated at -17 but as an EN rating my understanding is that is probably equivalent to a comfort rating (which Mont uses instead) of -9 for a woman. I feel the cold also while sleeping and am planning an alpine walk with it in spring but things can go either way then sometimes! I'd rather unzip a side on a warm night than shiver on a cold one. At only 1.2kg I am looking forward to trying it out!

Nice choice, AWTtrekker. It's always handy to carry a warmer bag than you think you'll need. When I did the Great Victorian Rail Trail in February I took my One Planet Sac 5. The first night got particularly chilly and I slept snuggly all zipped up. The following 5 nights were all in the mid-20s and the bag worked supremely as a quilt. I was thankful I did take a warm enough bag for that one night.

[damoprz]

I have a TALUS TS1 that my girlfriend uses. It is perfect for 3 seasons, in colder winter + Alpine walks I take a light weight synthetic bag to put over the top.

[Drew]

Not sure how the prices compare now but when I was researching this subject a couple of years ago I narrowed it down to Mont, One Planet and Sea to Summit. I ended up getting a One Planet Bushlite -11. It seemed as good as the others but it was a better price. I've been happy with it so far. If you search you'll find that thread, which might have something useful in it. However if I were buying now I'd probably consider getting a quilt instead (I have one for non-winter use).

[Eljimberino]

You might like to consider supplementing your current bag with another ultralight synthetic bag for the outside.

Check out MLD, Tiergear, As Tucas, or Cumulus for the synthetic bags.

This option is much cheaper, more versatile and potentially lighter than buying a dedicated winter down bag.

Also this has the added bonus in that the synthetic bag on the outside will absorb any condensation, especially if you 'cowboy camp' as the Americans call it.

Recently I used this system on the Larapinta. I slept outside every night - often on windy lookouts - and it worked great. Some nights got to below freezing.

(FYI I have a zpacks 20 degree down bag and a MLD FKT quilt that doubles as a poncho)

That last bonus is that you then have two 3 season bags, both of which will get much more use than a winter bag and a summer bag.

[Randle]

I've just ordered an enlightened equipment quilt. Light and warm!

[earthairfire]

I'm a huge fan of enlightened equipment bags. Super light, amazing quality, really good value and customisable. The only downside is that they're so popular that they often have long waiting lists. It's 5-7 weeks at present, but when I checked a couple of months ago it was a 16 week wait!

[Stew63]

How do quilts fare when it's -15C, in snow, in a serious blizzard?
I'm looking for a new snow bag (quilt?) for use with a NeoAllSeason mat for the MainRange in winter/blizzards - I'm still not convinced with quilts in these conditions but perhaps some can enlighten me?
Thinking of the Western Mountaineering Versalite bag at the moment.

[Moondog55]

Using an UL synthetic quilt or SB over the top is a good idea and one alternative I promote; the problem being finding one cut large enough to not compress the inner bag. it is an easy and cheap way to extend the range of a 3-season down bag by 10 to 15C
A single great big bag will be lighter for the same temperature rating but not as versatile
A VB liner is another as is wearing a LW insulated jacket and pants inside if the SB is big enough, sometimes just upgrading the mattress/ground insulation is enough to tip the balance

[johnrs]

Hi Stew
Quilts at minus 15 are not for the fainthearted!!

Once again have a look at the Cumulus bags from Poland.
http://sleepingbags-cumulus.eu/?cms_use ... e4f413e090
Panyam or Teneq
Similar specs to the Western Mountaineering bags but half the price.
WM bags are around $1000 now!
John

[Moondog55]

Interested in how the search is going.
Especially as Oysters has a very good solution for sale
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=23756
you use it in addition to the existing sleeping bags and could be a solution to take you down to as cold as you would ever be likely to find

[findbuddha]

How well do down jackets work as a supplement for an existing bag? I'm in a similar position to some in this thread - I have an EE Revelation quilt (20F, long) which is more than adequate for my use in Qld but I'm planning to travel to some colder places eg OLT, Nepal (Annapurna / EBC), NZ and for some of these trips I'm sure I'll want warmer gear. I don't own a down jacket yet.

Cheers!

[Moondog55]

They work very well
But the proviso is always that the sleeping bag needs to be big enough to wear the clothing inside without compromising the loft of either.
unfortunately to get the weight down as low as possible a lot of UL sleeping bags are simply too small to wear clothing inside. A quilt doesn't suffer in this regard; especially if you specified a wide quilt.
How much warmth they will add to a quilt really depends on how warm the down garments are, as you say a -5C quilt is very marginal for those cooler places.
It doesn't have to be down tho, I own Uniqlo down parkas and Patagonia Nanopuff parkas and I find them equivalent and as stand alone garments good for summer.
Remember that insulation is cumulative and more is better so you can wear as many layers as you need 3 or more or a thicker warmer winter top
Just remember if layering to make sure each layer fits over the top of the layer underneath without squashing the loft. Down socks/bivvy boots + down or synthetic pants + winter weight underwear and balaclava + beanie + one or more jackets can add 10 to 20 degrees to the comfort limit ; or much more if your down parka is a really good one.
I had to bivvy this year at Pretty Valley, overnite temperature was a cool -8.
I wore long johns + OR insulated pants + wind pants + goretex storm pants + ski socks inside my UL half bag and on top I was wearing UL long underwear + Powerstretch underwear plus a Patagonia nanopuff jumper + a Uniqlo UL down parka + a Patagonia Nanopuff bivvy pullover + my Patagonia DAS parka and my Goretex storm parka and I was still cold because I was tired and hungry and had insufficient ground insulation
Getting better ground insulation is part of the way to tackle deeper cold and use the clothing to boost the rating downwards. if you don't have a decent mattress system it's much harder to get a decent recuperative rest let alone sleep well.
You can get a cheap and light Uniqlo and upgrade later of get a LW or UL synthetic as well and use that over the UL downie or simply buy the best parka you can afford now and realise that it may well be little too warm sometimes; better too warm tho than borderline and be shivering all day and nite
Which id the best down jacket/parka is a whole new [ old] thread and another can of thin long wriggly things
SB and clothing isn't everything

[findbuddha]

Thanks, I appreciate your detailed answer!

[roysta]

I have a Versalite and it's a cracker of a bag but they now cost the earth.
I would consider johnrs's suggestion about the Cumulus bags. The Poles make some good gear.


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