Rain Jackets

[corvus]

What are we using for Rain Jackets now especially in Tasmania .
c

[walkinTas]

My three season Jacket is a Snowgum Packlite Goretex jacket. I also carry a Ripstop Waterproof Poncho and waterproof trousers. These are light enough to carry even in my day pack.

For years my winter jacket was a wool lined oiled Japara, but its dead now and I need a new winter jacket. I do have a very heavy Goretex jacket with a removable polar fleece lining, but I seldom walk in it because it is just too heavy and too hot, though I sometimes just wear the polar fleece liner as a jacket.

[DonQx]

http://www.peterstorm.com/1nylon.htm

Very light, robust, packs small, breathable (if that's the right word?), much better quality at a lower price than any other similar jackets/pants I've seen

Fold-away hood (not visible on pic)

Popular with some of the full-on peak baggers who'll go in any weather just to score another peak

Available on-line only as far as I know, US$35 posted, from http://stores.ebay.com/Peter-Storm-Store

a.

[Earthling]

http://www.peterstorm.com/1nylon.htm

Very light, robust, packs small, breathable (if that's the right word?), much better quality at a lower price than any other similar jackets/pants I've seen

Ive looked for major reviews of Peter Storms products but could not find any. Do you know of any?
I also looked for product weights and breathability tests but again nothing. Do you know of any?
The site has limited info and poor product photos and Ebay doesnt give me much more......
Looks like a good product but need more info...will email them in the meantime.

Alternatively to his jackets, the MONTANE ATOMIC DT LIGHT are promoted and reviewed as being a very good jacket:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0299014770

[Son of a Beach]

I just got an email from MacPac yesterday regarding their new waterproof clothing range, which is due to be released soon. They're apparently going to be having promotional events to show them off around NZ and Australia (in March, I think it was?), focusing on the 'eVent' fabric being used, which they reckon is a lot better than Goretex.

Might be worth checking out if they make it to the Hobart store.

[flyfisher]

I recently bought a Mont Hydronaught 3/4 length jacket which seems to be very satisfactory so far.
Not the lightest coat arount at about 800 grams but keeps my bum dry in shorts. $269 --bit cheaper than Goretex but at the time I couldn't find the size and style I needed in Hobart

FF

[dee_legg]

Mont Supersonic... love it.

[johnw]

I've been using cheap, lightweight breathable Rainbird gear (mostly). I used both jacket and trousers on my recent 7 day WOJ trip, but wasn't happy with the performance. We had a lot of rain and some snow. I think it stops the rain from getting in, but once I started working hard it really began to wet out from the inside. This happened even with wicking insulation layers underneath. So I now believe that its breathability is limited. My son's jacket seemed to fair a bit better. He was using a Montane 200 (I think that's the model). It's very light and packs extremely small, but still has similar features to other good quality jackets. But even that had some problems after extended periods of use in the wet. In addition, we both used Sea to Summit tarp ponchos (not the silnylon ones) for extra protection/pack coverage when necessary.

People around the Walls were in all sorts of get ups in the rain, but knee-length gore-tex jacket (various brands) with shorts and gaiters seemed fairly popular with those on multi-day trips. I decide to copy that idea and ended up walking out in jacket, shorts, thermal long johns and gaiters. This was through rain, wet foliage and a bit of snow. I found that arrangement quite comfortable except for the limitations of the jacket mentioned previously. And I looked like a dork checking in to the hotel .

I'm now thinking of going with a longer jacket in gore-tex or similar. Since coming home I've tried on a Pallin Vista and two of the Mont Hydronaut jackets (forget which models), and considering all of these. However there are a lot of sales on at the moment and I saw several other jackets at half price or less, in Gore-Tex, eVent etc.

[Penguin]

Longer the better. Mine, a MD Stratus I think, is only mid thigh. Knee length work better. Look out for the sales - got mine $200 off a couple of years ago. My tent has an single skin Event section in it which works well. The new MacPac could well be worth a look.

[Franco]

If you can afford it eVent works well, better in my experience than the other type of Teflon coated fabric....
Most rain jackets just don't let enough vapour out (regardless of the "breathability" claims) to justify spending more than you would for a Rainbird.
Indeed Macpac are launching eVent as outlined in a certain other forum were I managed to get Campbell Junor (Macpac part-owner) to reply to my comments with lots of capital letters. But the jacket sounds good, here are some details about it "our 3 layer eVent traverse shell (with pack away hood and chest pocket) is 345gms mens (M) and 310gms womens (w's med)..
the use of a heavy fabric on shoulder to comply with our pack carrying requirement blew them out of the super light categorey..."
Sounds good for your conditions downthere. I use and like a somewhat similar Montane version.
BTW, the commonest mistake I see with rain jackets, is that when it starts raining, people stop put a jacket on top of their existing layers and then complain that the jacket does not breathe...
Franco
According to my dictionary "breathability" is not a word but I have been using it for years, so it must be correct by now.

[Taurë-rana]

Been happy with my Wilderness Wear jacket so far... It's a bit bulky and weighs 650g but keeps me warm and dry. Not that I've used it in really bad conditions yet.

[DonQx]

http://www.peterstorm.com/1nylon.htm

Very light, robust, packs small, breathable (if that's the right word?), much better quality at a lower price than any other similar jackets/pants I've seen

Ive looked for major reviews of Peter Storms products but could not find any. Do you know of any?
I also looked for product weights and breathability tests but again nothing. Do you know of any?
The site has limited info and poor product photos and Ebay doesnt give me much more......
Looks like a good product but need more info...will email them in the meantime.

Alternatively to his jackets, the MONTANE ATOMIC DT LIGHT are promoted and reviewed as being a very good jacket:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... 0299014770

haven't seen any reviews or test results anywhere

I've seen the gear in action used by some very hardy characters in sleet/dense scrub/torrential rain and now have a set meself, but haven't been out with it in quite as extreme conditions yet

my conclusion: it works, lasts, weighs very little & packs very small. also at that price you can't really lose mereckons.

limited info available .. yes ... when dealing with them I got the impression that it is a fairly small setup, not overly business-orientated

the Montane stuff looks good!

[blacksheep]

...in a certain other forum were I managed to get Campbell Junor (Macpac part-owner) to reply to my comments with lots of capital letters. .

YES, BUT I WASN'T SHOUTING MATE...

[alliecat]

I have one of the Montane Atomic DT jackets and I love it. It's very light, has kept me totally dry in hours of heavy rain, packs down small and was quite affordable (before the dollar went splat...). The material is certainly more breathable than my old 3-layer gore-tex, but that's not really saying much - ventilation counts much more than breathability. The montane has two mesh-backed chest pockets that work as vents and they do help a little. I found keeping the cuffs loose cooled me off more. It also has a "drop-tail" cut (long at the back, short at the front, kind of the jacket equivalent of a mullet) so it keeps my bum dry.

The material is light but not really flimsy. It has survived a couple of stumbles onto rocks and pushing through light bush without any damage at all so far.

Worth considering I think. There are a couple of reviews linked to from montane's web site.

Bet source for shipping to Aus is an e-bay store (just search for "montane") as many of the UK-based online retailers charge exorbitant postage.

Cheers.

[Son of a Beach]

It also has a "drop-tail" cut (long at the back, short at the front, kind of the jacket equivalent of a mullet)

pure gold right there!

[Franco]

Blacksheep
Hi there, now we know who you are....
That thread was quite funny in the end ' cause after a few years there (at BPL)now I know (we both do...) how to use bold and italics. I hope that you did not mind me keeping the thread alive ...
You could always send me some pictures so that I can upload them without some smart *&%$#! ( like me) winging about the commercial endorsement. BTW, wise choice about the Microlite...
BTW, I should really take a good look at your "water resistant" sleeping bag, should be a good choice UpOver for the tarp brigade. (to avoid using a bivvy )
Franco
I too like the tail of the Montane....

[geoffmallo]

Integral designs 'thru-hiker'.

eVENT is the only option IMHO. Maked Gore Tex XCR feel like a body bag!

[UPDATE: My thoughts on this jacket can be read at http://mycampgear.com/2009/04/06/rain-j ... thur-hiker]

[Nuts]

Iv'e read that e-vent has a little higher 'breathability' rating (silly concept BTW, the things do not 'breathe').
Perhaps before we all launch into another 'hype/marketing driven' spending spree it would be good to hear some logical persuasion as to why we need another new jacket?

Seems to me that If You Are Wearing Anything Under A Raincoat Then You Dont Need A More Breathable Raincoat???....
For that hot week in summer? To go for a jog?

Also, in my experience, you dont get things that much lighter without them also being less 'robust'
No Matter What The Marketers Say....

So now that macpac have jumped the wagon (cupla years late but hey) good luck convincing anyone that they actually need something they haven't in the past. I know that's your job, and you have (local) success, but then you will just be offering us what we can already get cheaper elsewhere...

I have found myself wishing for a heavier coat (than my paclite) as much as 'lighter'.....

[Nuts]

Oh, and OK, a long coat is great with shorts but then if you are going to carry the w/p pants anyhow (and maybe long 'quick dry pants also) then isn't the long coat just adding unnecessary weight/bulk? I like the free movement in the waist cut (long bum/mullet) 'trail' type gore coats..

[Josef]

As I repair my old gortex Paddy Vista and wonder if Ill be wet again on my up coming walk, I wonder if it is time to get a new jacket.
What I can gather from this thread is that a Montane Jacket made from event fabric sounds like a pretty good choice if a jacket needs replacing. Would people agree?

[blacksheep]

Nuts, by you logic Goretex should have never launched, because before then it wasn't available...not sure where you are coming from, but there are many out there that think improvements are good and worthwhile. (how long did you hold off getting a computer? no doubt you were fine without that too..)
Josef, make your own mind up, but the fact is that "wet" techology (ie: PU coated) slows down the rate at whicj moisture vapour (sweat) can exit your microclimate. It condenses and you get wet from the inside. Goretex has a layer of PU. eVent does not. If you care able feeling dry inside your jacket then eVents is the best option. Montane, Vaude and Macpac all eVent jackets worth a look (Macpac are a few weeks away though)

[Nuts]

You will hardly say that they are not an improvement....



I bought a gore jacket because it offered a number of advantages and they added up to something of real value.
My point is that I really cant see anything lighter or more breathable is actually that big a deal for tassie conditions (do you really think it is? C'mon!, slowing down will keep you dry for a lot less cost....).

Sure, you'll sell the stuff to someone, but then would you not say Anything if it happened to not be selling well....

[blacksheep]

yes nuts. I like biking and xc-skiing and hiking fast and light. I want a shell this allows my sweat to pass through.

But sure, you are right...you can always stop, open up the jacket and let the sweat out...but that's not what I want..Can't see why you'd pay $400+ for that either... There are a lot of cheaper PU options out there to have garments that perform like that...
maybe the US army are a more impartial source of information..
http://www.shelby.fi/tips/breathability.pdf

[Nuts]

I'd seen that chart on another site, is that what everyone is basing the 'hard sell' on? Interesting...

OK, anyhow, I still dont see the relevance to Bushwalking in Tassie. My question was that unless you are wearing nothing under a shell then why is something lighter and more breathable necessary. If one Tassie jacket- then wouldnt something able to retain heat and stop the wind be better (ie one of the gore fabrics) Sure, the technology is getting old but why is an expensive change needed. I'm sure if you could answer these in any measurable sense your sales would be (even?) better.In my experience the gore fabrics Are somewhat better than PU coated 'breathability' wise, besides that I bought the jacket for the other features (ie pitzips, vent pockets etc.) and cause I was most interested in it being WaterProof, and providing adequate strength and warmth in the coldest, roughest tassie conditions.

I guess I'm not the perfect 'target market', for easy conversion, without a huge disposable income and with feet on the ground..

My guess is that you wouldn't make the same comments about goretex if it was still all you had to sell

Nothing personal, we'd probably never hear from most of those other manufacturers on that chart... (who are probably scrambling for a supply of event, (and selling everything else) before they start bagging the old fabrics...)

[blacksheep]

I'd seen that chart on another site, is that what everyone is basing the 'hard sell' on? Interesting...

no, but it does help to have an impartial acredited testing authority quantify performance differences. I think using products is the best way to reach a conclusion-same with any purchase decision right? hardsell?

OK, anyhow, I still dont see the relevance to Bushwalking in Tassie. My question was that unless you are wearing nothing under a shell then why is something lighter and more breathable necessary.

Is that genuine question? I didn't mention lighter (that was a quote from Franco, in reference to a lightweight jacket (Traverese) I was discussing elsewhere. For Tassie bushwalking the Resolution or Prophet are more suitable) Anyways.. I'm not the typr to wear nothing under a rain jacket but a short answer is the more resistance to evaportaive transpiration (RET) the slower sweat will exit the system. all layers add resistance (even polypro and fleece). If the system doesn't allow sweat to leave, things wet out. Clothes get wet. Inside of the shell gets wet. Sure, sometimes thats simply uncomfortable and inconvenient, but in cold conditions it is pretty crappy. Ever had ice on the inside of your jacket? not ideal.. even putting on a damp jacket on a new day is a bit crummy... if you have not got wet inside your jacket then it is not needed for you (just as if you haven't been cold in your sleeping bag there is no need to get a warmer one, or if you are happy getting 20mpg then you may see no point aimning for 30mpg...) I like improvements.

If one Tassie jacket- then wouldnt something able to retain heat and stop the wind be better (ie one of the gore fabrics) Sure, the technology is getting old but why is an expensive change needed. I'm sure if you could answer these in any measurable sense your sales would be (even?) better.In my experience the gore fabrics Are somewhat better than PU coated 'breathability' wise, besides that I bought the jacket for the other features (ie pitzips, vent pockets etc.) and cause I was most interested in it being WaterProof, and providing adequate strength and warmth in the coldest, roughest tassie conditions.

Mate who suggesting you go change- you are happy with the level of performance you are getting. Take a look at how Goretex tests- is it really that much better that PU? Entrant is PU....(and very close to macpac 'reflex' fabric) and there performance level is not that different, but the price is.. A guy in here was condidering his options, and now eVent has started to get the momentum they deserve, and the consumer has a new best option.

I guess I'm not the perfect 'target market', for easy conversion, without a huge disposable income and with feet on the ground..

My guess is that you wouldn't make the same comments about goretex if it was still all you had to sell

eVent garments are the same price bracket as Goretex. I had the choice of which way to go*, and I went eVent for performance.
* that is why so few brands have gone with eVent- Gore licenses a company to use their fabric, and license factories to use their seam tape machines. If you use a "competing" fabric (ie eVent) you will no longer be able to use Goretex (ie: either-or), and any factory that has any Gore production is forbidden to make your garments! Clearly this make this a very difficult decision- you make this choice because it i the better product, but forfeit the power of the Gore brand machine and and access to a lot of our previous factories. It's back to square one in some ways, but I reckon it's still the right choice.

I've got my feet on the ground too nuts, and I have quite confidence that users will become amabassadors, and product performance will trump brand.

Nothing personal, we'd probably never hear from most of those other manufacturers on that chart... (who are probably scrambling for a supply of event, (and selling everything else) before they start bagging the old fabrics...)

No worries at all..As I said above, there will be interesting discussions going on at other companies about making the shift. I was product design manager at Mountain designs for 5 or 6 years, and then I knew that eVent was a better fabric, but it was too hard/risky to walk away from the Goretex sales for the owner. Now I can put my money where my mouth is

[Nuts]

OK...OK, Then can I test (say 30odd of) your new jackets for you?

[norts]

I'll put up my hand to test one. I have a few pieces of Macpac equipment and I havent had any problems with it and also I am looking for a new jacket. My oringi jacket is tough and keeps me dry but I get sweaty if it isnt cold.

I am looking forward to driving to Hobart when all this new gear arrives in the shop.

Roger

[Franco]

Nuts

You can relax now. I have checked with Parks and Wildlife Services (Tasmania), according to them eVent will not be compulsory for a few years and you will still be allowed to use your beloved jacket in the foreseeable future.

That takes me to my second point: why would you want to test an item that is obviously useless to you and just a marketing ploy to get people to spend more money?

BTW, jackets, technically speaking, are neither warm nor breathable, but then again the sun does not set and we have stopped dialling phones some time ago.

Franco

[Nuts]

Nuts

You can relax now. I have checked with Parks and Wildlife Services (Tasmania), according to them eVent will not be compulsory for a few years and you will still be allowed to use your beloved jacket in the foreseeable future.

Good O.... I'll get the life span the marketers predicted

That takes me to my second point: why would you want to test an item that is obviously useless to you and just a marketing ploy to get people to spend more money?

Err... so I spend less. (I didn't say they were useless?)

BTW, jackets, technically speaking, are neither warm nor breathable,

I agree. I wonder who used the term 'breathable' in the first place?
Though it does stand to reason that the more 'breathable' the less warm?
(Which was BTW what made me ponder the question (as related to the topic and especially in tassie), just how much of an improvement they would be (as related to bushwalking))

but then again the sun does not set and we have stopped dialling phones some time ago.
Ahhem!



Franco

[Franco]

Nuts
Some have reported less wind protection with eVent than with the other stuff ( not sure if this applies to all versions) however possibly only wearing a jacket that is made half with eVent and the other half with the Tex stuff could give the definitive answer ( you will need to walk back and fro to expose the two sides )
Maybe that is what you want so that then we will all know. I suggest totally different colours to facilitate identification.
Franco