Renewing DWR coating any luck?

[Ent]

Hi

After many years of service my Paddy Pallin Vista jacket's DWR is on the way out. Tried two products but at best a day of use before the DWR fails. Given the massive price of the restorers feeling rather chiselled. Anyone had any better luck and what with?

Cheers

[corvus]

Ent what did you use and do to re proof??
corvus

[wayno]

massive savings on buying dwr treatments from overseas,

[Ent]

Well Toko product was a wash out. Lasted all of half an hour despite a can being used. Starting to think do it yourself DWR reproofing is a con.

Cheers

[photohiker]

I've had good luck with Nikwax TX Direct Wash in, but then I use it regularly. How often have you been washing and proofing it?

One of my sons has been using my old Mountain designs goretex shell. He brought it home and complained it wasn't shedding water any more - I gave it the Nikwax 1/2. (Tech wash and TX wash in) via the outdoor fabrics cycle on out Siemens washing machine, and it is as good as new again.

[Ent]

I've had good luck with Nikwax TX Direct Wash in, but then I use it regularly. How often have you been washing and proofing it?

One of my sons has been using my old Mountain designs goretex shell. He brought it home and complained it wasn't shedding water any more - I gave it the Nikwax 1/2. (Tech wash and TX wash in) via the outdoor fabrics cycle on out Siemens washing machine, and it is as good as new again.

The PP Vista is washed with Techwash after any walk with reasonable use (in Tassie most walks) and done in the dryer and has lasted many cycles with impressive DWR performance but started to eventually fail. About every second wash cycle I have tried now three products, Nikwax spray on (lasts the best but still not a patch on the original DWR treatment), Toko, complete waste of money, and now Granger wash-in. I have avoided wash in DWR restorers until today when reproofing as Goretex as from my reading it prefers spray on treatments.

I use a Meile washer/dryer outer wear cycle and that works a treat for DWR products (but a non Goretex jacket the taping is failing and on my Air delimination issues) but after twenty cycles then the DWR on most products starts failing if not long before that number. The Goretex stuff, especially the Pro-shell kicks the butt of most other contenders/pretenders for outer shell wear. I dearly love my Pro-Shell Vista so looking to keep it in tip top condition.

The big issue is in Tassie you go for many days walk where it often rains or snow every day.

Cheers

[corvus]

After the Nixwax Tech wash I spray my PP Gortex Vagabond with Mcnet Revivex following the instructions and this works for me
Ent do you think that you may be washing you Jacket more than it needs sometimes a good sponge will remove all but ingrained grime
corvus

[nq111]

I think the flurocarbon based treatments work better than the others.

[Ent]

After the Nixwax Tech wash I spray my PP Gortex Vagabond with Mcnet Revivex following the instructions and this works for me
Ent do you think that you may be washing you Jacket more than it needs sometimes a good sponge will remove all but ingrained grime
corvus

Washing of Goretex has always been a hot topic as is the washing of sleeping bags. I have been following the manufacturers recommendations that basically suggest treating a jacket much as any other clothing item is the go apart from using a gentle detergent like Nixvwx Tch wash. Apart from the DWR now failing from around four years use the jacket's DWR performance has been outstanding. Being a heavy build I tend to sweat a lot. The jacket looks in first class condition except for a small tear from the last many day scrub bashing experience. Dam shame the Vista is no longer being made as Paddy Pallin continues to drift away from its hard core walking roots to being more a fashion store for back packers,

Cheers

[Nuts]

Wash warm /on gentle cycle (lots of 'natural' soaps available cheaper than Tech wash ) (btw techwash=downwash, no need for both)
Two rinses and hang till damp to touch, no free water.
Nikwax spray on damp fabric, let sit for a few minutes, rub in/wipe off with sponge
Dryer on low heat, short cycles (eg 15min) resting in between
Do this when it first comes necessary then every 4/5 washes after

Never as good as a shop finish but ok

Should work fine assuming that the inside laminate layer hasn't worn, outer hasn't pilled too much or the tapes need replacing.

[cjhfield]

Ive taken to folding my jacket inside out to protect the DWR coating. I don't know if it will make the coating last longer but all the threads about contamination causing DWR failure has me a bit paranoid.

Chris

[Ent]

Wash warm /on gentle cycle (lots of 'natural' soaps available cheaper than Tech wash ) (btw techwash=downwash, no need for both)
Two rinses and hang till damp to touch, no free water.
Nikwax spray on damp fabric, let sit for a few minutes, rub in/wipe off with sponge
Dryer on low heat, short cycles (eg 15min) resting in between
Do this when it first comes necessary then every 4/5 washes after

Never as good as a shop finish but ok

Should work fine assuming that the inside laminate layer hasn't worn, outer hasn't pilled too much or the tapes need replacing.

Yeap tried this and definitely the most effective approach but as said about four washes and a couple of days rain and back to buying more DWR re-proofing stuff at absurd local prices.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Its crazy spending so much money on these so called brilliant rain jackets, with huge price tags, guaranteeing to keep as dry, claiming there the best thing in the world and yet we have to spend huge sums of money on products to keep them from saturating us. Its not right, sometimes I feel like where all taken on a ride here.

You almost need a scientific mind to keep these jackets doing what they all claim to.

Theres got to be something out there better than this.

And these huge prices for these products we are told we must use to keep our jackets doing what we paid huge amounts of money for. Particularly Australian prices. CRAZY

[ULWalkingPhil]

Well Toko product was a wash out. Lasted all of half an hour despite a can being used. Starting to think do it yourself DWR reproofing is a con.

Cheers

toko is *&%$#!. I tried toko products on a jacket, it was like throwing money down the drain.

[Nuts]

He's has the jacket for 'years' Phil, had a lot of use, and seems to have washed it more than most.
At (say) $10 per treatment lasting 4/5 walks doesn't sound excessive (so long as it works)?

Just to add that (for a group/club etc) might be worth contacting the distributor (Outdoor Survival AU). Tech Wash is much cheaper by the 20L Drum and iirc WP Spray in 5L bottles.

[Ent]

Yes Nuts providing it works I am not too price sensitive. Nikwax stuff does partly if done using your recommendations but not the Toko stuff, that is a joke. Sthughes found the same. I am trying Grangers wash and DWR restorer combined. It might be a better idea providing that the cost is sensible. As mentioned we do get massively price gouged in Australia by more than a few distributors so will likely seek out the bulk buy option once I find something that works for me.

Washing Gore-tex and its ilk is like down. The old school of thought is do it as little as possible but as Son of a Beach found you are then told "you did not wash it enough". Still puzzled by eVent but tend to think that eVent's patchy reputation has more to do with one or two manufacturers' poor quality control rather than the membrane itself. One Planet's indicated that a major complaint of their sleeping bags losing warmth is due to people simply not washing them so the body oils build up and the down mats so the warmth rating crashes. I regularly wash down gear and providing it is done with due care the results are excellent. The PP Vista as mentioned worked a treat until recently but it was not unexpected that the DWR would fail with age and use but was unexpected was the challenge to get a good as new DWR restoration. Way too much hype and lack of effective instructions such as Nut's advice. You are left with the impression, spray on and the magic will work. Err, no!

Personally I am of the opinion that if the DWR is no good from day one then the average punter is not going to do any better. But if the DWR was reasonable then as Nuts says it is just another cost of walking to keep it in top condition. Just that I am looking at the easiest cost effective way. Part of my issue is in my unit I do not have any drying space so use the washer/drier and lounge. Hence, the Granger wash and DWR restorer combined, if work, suits my life style.

Of all the outerwear garments I am finding the bushwalking weight versions of Gore-tex stand up the best to Tassie conditions. But having said that I was amazed how sthughes Montane Air handled the heavy scrub and frequent slides on the last trip. Might have been luck but it stood up well. I even managed a small tear in my PP Vista but this was probably due to hanging on for dear life to a splintered tree.

Cheers

[ULWalkingPhil]

He's has the jacket for 'years' Phil, had a lot of use, and seems to have washed it more than most.
At (say) $10 per treatment lasting 4/5 walks doesn't sound excessive (so long as it works)?

Just to add that (for a group/club etc) might be worth contacting the distributor (Outdoor Survival AU). Tech Wash is much cheaper by the 20L Drum and iirc WP Spray in 5L bottles.

Even cheaper if you purchase from the UK. I've got 4 litres here for not much more than what you would pay for a tiny bottle here in Australia.

I'll see if I can remember where I purchased them from, but it was a Bicycle Store. I purchased 4 x 1 litre bottles for apx $24.00 + freight. I don't think the freight was much.

EDIT:
I've found where I purchased them from in the UK, I believe it was Wiggles, freight I believe at the time was Free, Now you need to order over 82 Australian dollars worth to receive the free freight to Australia. Unfortunately, it don't appear that they stock them anymore.

[ULWalkingPhil]

TIP:

That Wiggles store I mentioned in the UK. They sell lot's of lightweight hiking shoes such as Inov-8 at a very good price with free postage to Australia if the order is above $82.00 Australian.

Bummer they don't sell the TechWash anymore, I'm going to have to look else where for my supplies now.

[photohiker]

I bought nikwack from a uk ebay seller.

Freight was almost as much as product (2x1L Tech/TX), but total was $69, still a fraction of the total cost here.

Had a quick search on ebay.uk and no sellers are offering shipping to Australia. Looks like the Nikwax mafia has put a horse head in their beds...

[wayno]

alternative sources of nikwax

http://www.gearbuyer.com/site/search.ht ... best_match

http://www.altrec.com/nikwax/?redirect_ ... 80&sto=sfn

[ULWalkingPhil]

Wiggles still sell Tech Wash but not to Australia. If you select UK on the website, Tech Wash is available for sale, but it's not as cheap as when I purchased.

[Moondog55]

Techwash smells like a mixture of Sodium Bi-Carbonate and ammonia ( I wasn't game to taste it ) the Sportwash does or did do a better job for me and a bottle lasts a long while if you use a large washing machine and use plenty of warm water.
I have found that once I've washed a jacket more than a few times the DWR just goes away and I have been using Nikwax but it only lasts until the next wash. Must say tho that it does a great job on my down gear

[nq111]

There are different types of treatments even within the brands (eg, nikwax, grangers). I don't think the non-fluorocarbon versions work so well.

[wayno]

yeah but some of the treatments are glorified soap.....

[nq111]

yeah but some of the treatments are glorified soap.....

expect so.

I haven't had any luck with the wash-ins. It is wash, rinse well, allow dry a fraction (but so still wetted through), spray on fluorocarbon, dry, short run in the dryer to seal and done.

There may be better ways but this seems to be OK for eVent.

[Nuts]

What spray do you use nq? Iv'e heard of people (climbers) using flurocarbon based spray to add reinforced patches at high wear points (elbows etc) but would have thought it would be overkill for general use, make the material less breathable?

I doubt that the Nikwax product has ammonia content. iir from the Nikwax MS Data Sheets its all fairly benign. All quite mild, subtle treatments (which is probably why many people don't have the success they may expect..)

[nq111]

What spray do you use nq?

Grangers XT. Some detail about the fluorocarbon here: http://www.grangers.co.uk/downloadarea/ ... 0sheet.pdf .

Also, eVent recommend washing first with a normal detergent with enzymes, as apparently it takes out the oils and stains better than techwash. But you need to rinse well after - i wash with techwash after the normal wash than rinse several times.

DWR on raingear is a lot of work but to get reasonable performance but for a week in the rain with packs etc it is required. For a hardshell for just around town I am sure the wash and wear DWR would be fine enough.