4 season reliable light weight sleeping mat

[tigercat]

I know other threads have touched on this topic, but what are your preferences?

[Franco]

Since I don't have kids or other expensive hobbies , I use different mats for different conditions.
So three season mostly I use the Neo Air , in winter I use the Exped DM7.
I have also used the Neo Air with a home made Z Lite kind of mat under it on snow, works well but the DM7 is more comfortable.
A few years ago I used a TM proLite 4 , that works but I prefer the thicker types.
Franco

[Tony]

I use a Neoair regular in all seasons, in winter I put a cut down 7 mm closed cell foam mat on top and I have been comfortable on snow down to around -20ºC.

Tony

[Dale]

I've just started using the Exped UL7 down mat and have the small which weighs in at 500g. They've only just hit the market so the reliability question is unanswered.

[Mountain Rocket]

There is also the new Thermarest NeoAir XTherm. 430g for a 5.7 R value mat in a regular size (~183cm). It is still pretty new to the market so there are not many reviews about (yet). I have only played around on mine inside but so far I am very happy. Will get a chance to use it in the field in the coming weeks and will likely report back. The only assurance for reliability is it uses the same fabric as the much acclaimed (original) NeoAir and it is Thermarest which have a pretty good reputation for making quality sleeping pads/mats.

There has been some discussion about it here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8627

[Miyata610]

If you mean a winter mat, that you may use on snow or similarly cold conditions, then consider the consequences of a mat failure.

For this reason I use two mats in winter.

[Strider]

Exped UL7 Downmat.

Neoairs are uncomfortable and extremely noisy by comparison.

[Franco]

Yes I have read about the noise but that has not been my experience.
On one trip i was camping with two other guys with Neos , three tents three Neos,10 nights. So I asked about the noise . Their reply was "what noise ?'
Sometime I think it works like it doe with UFO sightings.
Till the day a journalist misquoted some comments and came up with the term "flying saucers" nobody had reported disk shaped UFOs up till then. However they became very popular after...
Franco

[Strider]

Yes I have read about the noise but that has not been my experience.
On one trip i was camping with two other guys with Neos , three tents three Neos,10 nights. So I asked about the noise . Their reply was "what noise ?'
Sometime I think it works like it doe with UFO sightings.
Till the day a journalist misquoted some comments and came up with the term "flying saucers" nobody had reported disk shaped UFOs up till then. However they became very popular after...
Franco

I slept on my Neoair in my kitchen. My wife could hear it from the bedroom, with the door closed. I move a lot in my sleep.

Noise aside, the Exped is like sleeping in my own bed. The Neoair could never offer that level of comfort.

[hikingoz]

I have a Downmat 7 which has failed once and was replaced free of charge.

I also have a Mont Warmlite which is similar but slightly lighter and filled with Primaloft which means you can fill it with expired air rather than performing CPR on it to inflate. I still havn't used it in the field.

[mjdalessa]

I was really happy with my downmat 7 until it got a slow leak for no apparent reason on day 3 out of 7. Was not happy.

[ninjapuppet]

I was really happy with my downmat 7 until it got a slow leak for no apparent reason on day 3 out of 7. Was not happy.

what a bummer!

Apart from the $117 xtherm i saw on ebay, $150 this is the cheapest ive seen the regular xtherm anywhere: http://www.e-omc.com/catalog/products/9454/Thermarest-NeoAir-Xtherm-Sleeping-Pad.html
use code SUMMER20 to get 20% off everything else full price.



Doesnt ship outside US I hear you say?, no problem! try bongo: https://bongous.com/

[andrewa]

Um...... How does a neo-air whatever , or anything else, compare with a std 1980s thermarest.

I'm looking for something I can be warm on on Bogong in snow for a weekend ski touring. To date I've been happy with the std ?1.5" thick short length thermarest for many years, but now looking for something lighter. I think that thermarest weighed about 750g. Looking at neo-air x-light.....any suggestions??

A

[Strider]

Um...... How does a neo-air whatever , or anything else, compare with a std 1980s thermarest.

I'm looking for something I can be warm on on Bogong in snow for a weekend ski touring. To date I've been happy with the std ?1.5" thick short length thermarest for many years, but now looking for something lighter. I think that thermarest weighed about 750g. Looking at neo-air x-light.....any suggestions??

A

Neoair are inflatable mattresses with no foam inner.

The Xlite almost certainly will not be warm enough on snow. Your options are the Xtherm or Exped Downmat/Synmat.

Seriously, look at the Exped range. They are miles ahead of anything by Thermarest in terms of comfort and build quality.

[Dale]

Yes I have read about the noise but that has not been my experience.
On one trip i was camping with two other guys with Neos , three tents three Neos,10 nights. So I asked about the noise . Their reply was "what noise ?'
Sometime I think it works like it doe with UFO sightings.

So are Neo air users more likely to be kidnapped by aliens ?

[Son of a Beach]

Exped ... are miles ahead of anything by Thermarest in terms of ... build quality.

How do you figure this? What are your sources for this information. You only have to search this forum to find multiple cases of Exped mat failures. I've not read the same about Thermarest. Reports by many readers here confirm that the Exped downmats are exceptionally comfortable, but that some of their other mats, at least, are not very reliable.

[Strider]

Exped ... are miles ahead of anything by Thermarest in terms of ... build quality.

How do you figure this? What are your sources for this information. You only have to search this forum to find multiple cases of Exped mat failures. I've not read the same about Thermarest. Reports by many readers here confirm that the Exped downmats are exceptionally comfortable, but that some of their other mats, at least, are not very reliable.

Personal experience. I am comparing only to the Neoair range here.

I at first avoided Exped for the reason you mention. But after trying the Neoair, there really was no competition - the Exped is the better of the two, hands down.

[Son of a Beach]

Exped ... are miles ahead of anything by Thermarest in terms of ... build quality.

How do you figure this? What are your sources for this information. You only have to search this forum to find multiple cases of Exped mat failures. I've not read the same about Thermarest. Reports by many readers here confirm that the Exped downmats are exceptionally comfortable, but that some of their other mats, at least, are not very reliable.

Personal experience. I am comparing only to the Neoair range here.

I at first avoided Exped for the reason you mention. But after trying the Neoair, there really was no competition - the Exped is the better of the two, hands down.

On what grounds, though? What personal experience did you have that has caused you to draw the conclusion that the Exped build quality is better than the Thermarest build quality? What went wrong with your Thermarest, for example? What model was it?

I'm just curious as to how you formed that opinion because it is contrary to the opinions of many other topics here, some by people who've had multiple failures over short periods of time and have detailed the problems and experiences they've had.

[Mountain Rocket]

I have bitten my tongue on this for quite a while, but no longer. Strider I find your posts regarding Exped versus Thermarest extremely hyperbole and subsequently unhelpful. It is quite clear that you prefer your Exped UL7 to your Thermarest NeoAir, that much is clear. I just think your language could be toned down a bit when expressing it. It is also worth noting that the UL7 may well be better than the NeoAir, I am not contesting that.

Please do not take this the wrong way.

As far as the relevance of the thread goes, the poster who mentioned pad failure as a problem for snow camping and proposed two mats as a response makes a good point. This is something you should certainly consider.
As far as Exped versus Thermarest goes, the two year warranty that comes with the UL range of Exped compared to the lifetime with Thermarest is also relevant to your 'reliability' criteria. Oh and Exped use a 20d fabric on their UL range whereas Thermarest use 30d. Food for thought I would think.

I am tired and grumpy so excuse my potentially berating post.

[Dale]

A tip for Exped users: A friend had his Downmat 9 delaminate on a summer canoe trip. He had left the mat inflated inside his Olympus for three days. Apparently a common cause for Exped mat failures is delamination due to the increased air pressure from heat. I'm sure there are failures for other reasons, but of you are doing 'base camp' style camping then it's a good idea to deflate your mat during the day.

[Tony]

As mentioned previously I use a Neoair regular, it is one of the first generation and I have used it for about two years now, I did look at the Expeds mats but at the time they were a lot heavier.

Before I got mine I read a lot of reviews and I knew that some users had problems with them leaking and some thought they were noisy but overall most reviewers liked them so I got one.

What I did read is that you have to be careful about not over inflating these style of mats as if it is cold and you over inflate, when you sleep on them the air in them warms up and you they can burst, hence I am very careful about what pressure I have in the mat when I retire for the night, and if during the night I feel it is too high I reduce the pressure a little bit, sometimes I let too much air out and have to put a bit in, if I leave my tent up during the day I let most of the air out and re-inflate before I retire for the evening. I am also very careful about the ground that I place the mat on, I check it for sharp rocks and sticks and other potential mat piercing objects.

I am considering getting one of the newer generation Neoairs, but for now I am quite happy with my current Neoair.

Tony

[Strider]

On what grounds, though? What personal experience did you have that has caused you to draw the conclusion that the Exped build quality is better than the Thermarest build quality? What went wrong with your Thermarest, for example? What model was it?

I'm just curious as to how you formed that opinion because it is contrary to the opinions of many other topics here, some by people who've had multiple failures over short periods of time and have detailed the problems and experiences they've had.

The Neoair just felt so fragile! To be honest it scared me to even lay on it. Whereas the Exped feels strong and robust.

[Strider]

"Apparently a common cause for Exped mat failures is delamination due to the increased air pressure from heat."

This is covered by the Exped instructions that come with the mat.

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

I am tired and grumpy so excuse my potentially berating post.

I like tired and grumpy - you know exactly what people are thinking!

[Dale]

"Apparently a common cause for Exped mat failures is delamination due to the increased air pressure from heat."

This is covered by the Exped instructions that come with the mat.

What ! You read instructions ??!!

[Son of a Beach]

Exped ... are miles ahead of anything by Thermarest in terms of ... build quality.

The Neoair just felt so fragile! To be honest it scared me to even lay on it. Whereas the Exped feels strong and robust.

So you are saying that the Exped is better in terms of build quality purely on the grounds of how it looks and feels, and not on the grounds of actual reliability in field use? No worries.

In terms of actual reliability, the Expeds appear to have poorer build quality based on actual field use and failure rates (according to the number of reported failures in topics on this site).

[Strider]

Exped ... are miles ahead of anything by Thermarest in terms of ... build quality.

The Neoair just felt so fragile! To be honest it scared me to even lay on it. Whereas the Exped feels strong and robust.

So you are saying that the Exped is better in terms of build quality purely on the grounds of how it looks and feels, and not on the grounds of actual reliability in field use? No worries.

In terms of actual reliability, the Expeds appear to have poorer build quality based on actual field use and failure rates (according to the number of reported failures in topics on this site).

Yes. Thats a fair conclusion

[Miyata610]

An interesting discussion on perceived quality or robustness.

Like any forum, this one has its fair share of people with strong opinions, not just on this topic. Some quote anecdotal "evidence" as fact when it probably isn't. We just need to consider this when consuming the available information.

I have both exped and thermarest mats. I have never had an exped failure. I have had a thermarest delaminate and become totally useless whilst on a trip. A very unfortunate and potentially dangerous situation. At least a leak can be fixed with a patch kit.

[roysta]

I've had numerous Thermarest failures and I'm very gentle with my mats.
I'm quite a nazi when it comes to pack weights and keep a Prolite 3 for when I really need light.
But, I have to say, I copped heaps from a few people when I bought an Exped Downmat 7S weighing 640g.
That said, it's my go to mat when the temps are likely to be anywhere near zero.
It'll get its big test at 5300m in Peru in a few weeks but I think it'll cruise through it.
And on top of that, it gives such a great night's sleep.

[norts]

I am an on my 3rd Exped Downmat 7 short, first 2, the down started coming back out the valves, so much that it was very hard to deflate the mats, luckily both times it was on the last night of a walk.
I returned both to Jollyswagman.
1st time they sent it away and was replaced after testing
2nd time they looked at the batch number and were able to replace after making a phone call.
I think both my mats were from the same batch which considering the simple way the second one was replaced suggest to me that there was a bad batch.

I all so have a All Season Neo air and find that very comfortable but a pain in the but to pump/blow up.


Roger