Tarptent the Moment

[ninjapuppet]

Those liners are already available.

http://www.tarptent.com/cgi-bin/surfshop/shop.cgi?ud=AAMNCwQLAQwFCRQUHRwTFwQBBg4AAAgJBgISEQAA&t=main.htm&storeid=1&sortby=categories,itemid&cols=3&c=detail.htm&itemid=106&bcount=1

[Franco]

Osik
As ninjapupped poited out , the liners are ready.
I will have some in a few days.
I don't think that I will bother with it myself but I will istall one in my mate's Moment and see what happens.
The guylines from TT are the TripTease type.A good combo between weight and strength. I have some lighter and even stronger Dyneema type but don't work well (or at all) with slip knots, you need line tensioners with those. (you can add "do not cut" on your order page)
I strogly reccomend that you install pole guylines to it.
Those are not supplied as standard because people like me like to choose the "perfect" type...
I also reccomend installing zip pulls. Same as above (I use bright and cheap mason line for those)
Franco
[email protected]

[ninjapuppet]

One good thing I just discovered last night about the Moment is that an alpacka packraft fits inside PERFECTLY!

if you flip the packraft around and let some air out to flatten it out like shown here http://www.alpackaraft.com/index.cfm?section=tips-and-technique&page=The-Far-Side-of-Alpacka&viewpost=2&ContentId=2800 , then you can use it as a massive super comfy sleeping mat

not only does it fit, but my head doesnt actually touch the silnylon roof either. I'm 1.7m and my heels just manage to touch the end of the packraft so it wont be so comfortable if you are any taller than that.

[Franco]

ninjapuppet
That is funny.
Either that or you are tapping into my computer, in that case I remind you of my family connections.
( we are the original Rafia family )

Today I received the Moments and the new liners so tomorrow I will be seam sealing one for my mate Yair who has been waiting for one since Moses was a child (his grandfather incidentally)
Yair happens to be about 170cm, so am I) and he owns one of them Alpackas, (Yukon ?) this one :


(that is me in about 1 meter of water, well above my comfort level. I can't swim. Note the white water around me)

He also discovered that by turning that giant hemorrhoid cushion it could be used as a mat.
(can't remember what tent he tried that in...)
Mind you he was going to charge me to take pictures of him in that.
I told him that he is dreaming (already)

Franco

[Franco]

The liners for the Moment are now ready.
This adds a layer on about 2/3ds of the interior , useful if condensation bothers you. It sits about 1" below the fly so very little space is lost.
$30US , 115g. The Moment shipped out now are ready for it, the older ones, need two clips sewn in.
Very easy to do, I have just done mine.
They come with instructions. (the kit is free of charge)
If you need the upgrade clips just mention that in the comment section when ordering.
Keep in mind that Henry is out hiking for a few days .

Franco

[SteveJ]

Ninjapuppet, which Alpacka are you using in your tent?, I also have both Moment and packraft but I have the unrigged explorer which looks too large? I'll get it out and give it a go may be the easy way to resolve the question. I like it a lot.

Steve

[ninjapuppet]

I got the small alpacka, and it just fits when fully inflated. So when I deflate it abit then theres no worries about it touching the walls.
My friend got the next size up (?yukon yak) and just that extra 11cm is a deal breaker because it kinda distorts the netting.
Both our alpackas are 97cm width, but mine is 168cm as opposed to his 178cm raft.

http://www.tarptent.com/moment_2.html

I was recently planning on also getting the 2010 sublite sil but Henry emailed me back saying he reckons the the moment with the liner is probally a better option for wet conditions. The alpacka also wont fit the sublite's width. I really like the design of that sublite, just wish it was a hair width wider as most of my trips now is going to involve an alpacka somehow.

[Franco]

Well I finally field tested ( outside my backyard) the liner..
I attached one to a new Moment for my mate Yair and used the "upgrade kit" to saw in the two clips on mine. Very easy.
We spent a couple of nights in the Victorian Alps in the Mt Howitt area.
First night was down to about 8c min but with some humidity. Got a bit of condensation at the top of the fly near the pole but more damp than anything.
The second night rained after about 2 AM (when I was walking about looking for wombats...) and went down to about 4c (maybe a bit less) at around 4 AM when I woke up with a cold back.
Oddly the inside of the tent was totally dry when I got up at twenty past six. (we did have a bit of wind)
On the first night we were only about 10m from the top of a waterfall (Pieman Falls)
Still not sure if I will keep it on mine, my mate likes it.
Shots of the second night camping ...(neither of us sleep walks)


Franco

[north-north-west]

Is that Bryces Gorge and Conglomerate Falls?

[Franco]

Hi
Yes it is. We were meant to go up Mt Howitt however we discovered that winter there finishes the Thursday after the Melbourne cup ("road closed for winter")
Since it was a bit late in the day to do the extra 12km we took a detour and stumbled upon Pieman Falls and then the Cumberland.
We had water everywhere, easy walking...
The first night we camped next to the Pieman falls. I set up the tent then, laying down inside , I realised that I was on a bit of a slope.
That confirmed that my silicone dotted floor and my striped Neo Air bottom (silicone stripes on every fourth tube) worked.
So I just unpegged the front peg and moved the front of the tent about a foot to the left. Done in 10 seconds...
I guyed out the Moment on the second night. That stops the wobble these type of shelter gets in the wind.
We were well protected the first night.
We did 61 KM between Thu afternoon and Fri morning. (forced march out on Fri in the rain...)
Franco

[north-north-west]

Yes it is. We were meant to go up Mt Howitt however we discovered that winter there finishes the Thursday after the Melbourne cup ("road closed for winter")

I think you'll find it's closed until the Thursday before the Cup - ie, today.
Not that this would be a good time to head for Howitt, because every man and his dog wants to get in there on the first available opportunity after being locked out all winter, and the place will be as busy as Flinders Street Station at peak hour.

But I'd love to spend four or five days up there mid-winter. Day 1 to The *&%$#!'s Neck, Day 2 to Howitt, maybe spend a day snowshoeing over to Magdala, and then back out.

[Osik]

Thanks for all the advice and great discussion, have now ordered a Moment so eagerly awaiting its arrival. I thought that for $30 it was well worth to grab a liner, will endeavour to post a review on the Moment's performance in humid Qld conditions at some stage. Cheers as well Franco for the seam-sealing resources, make it look all too easy!
Rafael

[RPN]

As I am doing more solo walks and age is creeping up on me, I too decided it's time to start seriously reducing weight.

Heavy pack and sleeping bag were first to go and have now added a TT Moment to the gear list. Thanks Franco for demoing one in your backyard.

Seam sealed it just before the torrential rain we've been having here in Vic, so put it up one night outside to see how it would fare.....bit of water on the floor in the middle, not sure if it came thru the seams or the top vents. We did have 30+mm overnight so not too bad a result. I added some extra sealing from the inside and will see how it goes.

Got away for an overnighter to Mt Baw Baw for inaugural use. Space wise I think it's great, I'm a tad under 6' in the old scale and have plenty of length and head room both sitting up and laying down. Entry is easy and enough space in the vestibule. Although I ordered the optional liner I didn't use it this time, deciding to introduce myself to single skin tents instead. It was very still and humid overnight - the Baw Baws are very saturated presently - and probably got down to low teens. There was a heavy dew in the morning and a lot of condensation both inside and outside the tent. I found it not to be an issue however as I was careful not too touch the skin during the night and simply wiped it down with a small cloth before even sitting up - seemed to work ok. Not sure what would happen if a wind had picked up, it may have shaken the condensation from the inside, I guess it wouldn't be dificult to wipe it down during the night. I think it would be fair to say I like it! Looking forward to more trips with it.

But one thing is for sure, my back loves the 1.5kg weight saving!

[Franco]

hey
Nice shot !
You should send it in to Henry.
He is building a new web site where you will be able to upload pics for "approval" .
(ready in a few weeks....)
Is "in " box on his on E Mail account kept getting full.

bit of water on the floor in the middle, not sure if it came thru the seams or the top vents.
I had something like that on my first attempt. The hard one to seal correctly is the longitudinal seam half a way up the non door side.
I am now using a syringe and then a brush to do my seam sealing.

[Orion]

"the longitudinal seam half a way up the non door side"

Do you mean the seam where the pole runs?

[Franco]

Sorry, bad choice of words on my part AND wrong side too.
( no wonder I usually post pictures and or check rather than relying on my memory)
The seams are actually the ones on the door side that start at the end of the tent and finish by the top of the door zip and corresponding height on the other side.
Franco

[RPN]

I guess you mean the long stitch line that connects the fly mesh to the roof on the vestible/door side?

There was a little water underneath that line as well, but not enough to worry me. Might go over it again though.

[Franco]

yes that was the bit I missed. (just a few centimeters...)
I had to re-do a couple of bits on my Rainbow years ago so I would always suggest to test it (if possible...) before they are used in the bush.
My consolation is that every time someone comments about drips in their tent ( any brand...) the typical response is "did you seam seal your tent ? I know that it is taped/factory sealed but...."
Franco

[ILUVSWTAS]

My consolation is that every time someone comments about drips in their tent ( any brand...) the typical response is "did you seam seal your tent ? I know that it is taped/factory sealed but...."
Franco

ANY brand?? Hillebergs dont need seamsealing.

[Franco]

Iluvswtas
good point.
I remember when Volvo drivers (before the Fords and the subsequent Geely Automobile Holdings takeover) used to rave about how safe their cars were. Of course not everybody, that could afford one , wanted one.


Anyway, since you have the time and want to know the facts about tents, look up this thread :
http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthr ... s/922483/1

warning , graphic content. May put you off your dinner.
Franco
( the OP has a fixation about that tent. He has been kicked out of at least three forums for similar posts.., and yes I have dealt with him in a couple of them)

[ILUVSWTAS]

I drive a ford.....

[photohiker]

Anyway, since you have the time and want to know the facts about tents, look up this thread :
http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthr ... s/922483/1

Er.. Mountaineering tents certainly have their place, but speaking realistically, they are mainly used by the uniformed (more money than brains) for circumstances where building plastic would suffice.

hahaha

[under10kg]

I tested the moment by pitching it next to the hut at the pine valley a few days ago.
This I thought was a very sheltered camp spot in a valley with trees all around.
I shut the vents due to the snow and heavy rain that was going through.
Next day after sleeping in the hut (the 2 women got me in) I was disappointed to notice a few puddles of water in the middle of the tent.
I expect this was from rain coming in the closed vents.
There is a small gap at the velcro side where you can't close the vents totally.
I expect that most top vents in 2 walled tents in wind would leak but the inner liner hides this leakage.
My conclusions is that I would not take this tent in exposed camping locations for walks without taking a bivy bag or at least a liner.
I am not sure what the new liner would do if the top vents leaked. Would the water run down to the end of the floor area?
Depending on where you camp, you can get some condensation that can drip in come conditions too. The liner would be a help.
Next day I got up walled mountain walking through up to 1 foot of snow in runners.
The views were superb.

[eggs]

My first ever solo walk made use of my brand new Moment.
It already had a bit of history even before getting out in it
I had sewn in extra connections for the liner, eventually got the correct liner to match and I had added silicon to seal the seams.

Had 2 nights on the Main Range, but weather was fairly tame.
Bit of rain the first night, and I did not use the liner. Inside there was some slight condensation in the morning - but nothing serious and I actually did not mind the single skin.
However, I had set up the extra tension via walking poles - and some of the stitching on one attachment point had come loose.
You can actually see the tab vertical in the photo because the threads on one side had come out.

Camped below Little Twynam [Edit - but down along the northern side of Crummer Spur from the top]

I only noticed this when setting up on the second night - so this time I used the liner in case those thread holes seeped water.
There was light rain early in the night - but it then cleared up and by morning the droplets had all frozen.
The liner had no hint of moisture or ice and worked well - but the tent had ice lining the skin on both sides - frozen rain on the outside and frozen condensation on the inside.

Nestled amongst rocks near Mt Townsend [behind]. Hard to see due to colour, but tent had a fine coating of frozen rain. [Edit - more correctly along the ridge to Alice Rawson below the next major rise along from Townsend]

Now at home I have resewn the attachment that had come loose.
Final comment is regarding the Tyvek footprint, which I did use.
This material is very slippery and when combined with the SILNYLON tent floor - it moves very easily. It may not have helped that I was on snow grass both nights, but the wind moved it around a lot it until I got in the first night. And on both nights - the process of turning in bed was walking it out one side.
Will have to see how it goes in other locations.

[Franco]

Eggs
Yes your Moment does have a bit of a history...
(I later realised that I sent two wrong liners out at about the same time...)
Sorry about the loop coming undone, had not seen that before.
That Tyvek sheet is very sleek (and noisy...) at the start . It gets better with use however I don't use one.
(some put them in the washing machine for a spin cycle, you can also just scrunch it up a bit)
You don't need one over grass like in your shots but you could use it to minimise condensation (from ground evaporation) by covering the vestibule ground with it.
Just make sure that it does not stick out from under the fly.
Had mine on a riverside last w/e . Woke up with a wet inside but no drips. Neither me nor my mate bothered with the liner.



Note that the vents on both Moments are shut. That happens every time you pack it up and works well if you set them up in the rain but you need to remember to open them up again if you like some air flow.
If you like to collect water from the inside of the fly , leave them shut .
The second shot is a 15 sec exposure with the Pana TS1. We took some 30sec exposures also, but looked too much like day shots with blurred subjects.
looks like we are both trying to remember where we left the car or if we already had dinner...

Franco

[rucksack]

Eggs, I added a TT Moment to my tent locker at the beginning of this year and it has become my lightweight favourite. (With a new Black Diamond Mission 50 pack, I have shaved 3 kg off my 3-season set-up. Very nice.) I think adding those lines through your two walking poles is not a very elegant solution and, from the look of it, I suspect that it doesn’t do all that much for the erected strength of the tent either. The two standard end tie-outs pull evenly through the whole outer fabric (pulling through the entire length of the centre pole), but adding those extra two lines midway, looks to upset that flow (in my eyes anyway). See RPN’s photo above and the furthest away of the two Moments in Franco's photo above, by way of comparison. Without the interruption of the confused stresses introduced by your extra two lines, RPN’s Moment (and those in Franco's photo too), have cleaner flowing lines from the centre pole right through to the ends. I suspect that their pitch may mean that they are also 'stronger' too, (but that may only be because their pitch 'looks' better to me).

I have the additional, external pole, (but I still haven’t used that, although I will pack it if poor weather is ever forecast). And, I also have the inner, which I keep permanently attached, where it has ensured a complete absence of condensation drips and the like. All good. I am happy. I replaced the originally supplied 2 anodised, hollow tubing pegs with 4 robust (but no heavier) anodised, aluminium Y-pegs, using one at each end and one on the pole tie outs on either side. I think these are all the tent needs for normal 3-season use. (I see that you were using 6 pegs with your set-up.)

I agree about the slipperiness of the silnylon bathtub floor resting on a Tyvek footprint. I have the same set-up. Mine also has silicone ‘spotted’ across the inner floor and my Thermarest Prolite Plus seems a good match and, notwithstanding my Tyvek footprint, I don’t slip around all that much, nor does the Tyvek go walking when I turn over. You might be right about that snow grass though; with silnylon, I just make sure that the ground is flat, flat, flat.

I am taking my TT Moment out for a 3-day walk on the MacLehose Trail over in Hong Kong next month. Although January is midwinter up here, December and January are actually Hong Kong’s driest months, with January only averaging 4 rainy days. I have just purchased a copy of The Serious Hiker’s Guide to Hong Kong, published by FormAsia; it covers HK’s 4 trails: the Hong Kong Trail [50 km], the Wilson Trail [78 km], the MacLehose Trail [the longest at 100 km], and the circular Lantau Trail [70 km], and is a very good read. Although I have done a few days walks in Hong Kong, this guide book (I have the 7th edition, published this year), is opening my eyes to all manner of interesting multi-day possibilities over there. All good when you are crammed in with 23 million other souls in Shanghai.

rucksack

[Franco]

I agree with Rucksack about the trekking poles .
Henry posted that mode on the TT website 9 just in case) , however I happen to think that if you do keep the PitchLock in tension (that is the end triangle) you don't need extra help there.
My mate always uses the extra cross pole, I don't.
He was down in Tassie a couple of weeks ago and commented to a common friend that I would have been horrified at how he pitched his tents (that is because I always end up adjusting his sloppy set up, kind of sad since he has been tenting for 30 years , about 110 nights this year alone...)
A few weeks ago I had two Moments set up side by side in my backyard (I had seam sealed them) One for some reason I did not have in tension.
At about 3AM the wind woke me up (it was the night when those two guys died out in the bay) so I went downstairs to have a look.
One was wobbling like crazy, the other was sitting perfectly still.
Franco

[eggs]

I was very happy with the Moment - despite the few issues.
It was roomy and dry enough throughout and all for a tiny size & weight.
I think the ventilation is very good - particularly with the end flaps tied back.
I got 4 titanium pegs when I ordered it - so that makes up the six peg points.

I have a big rucksack & it worked better for room when I emptied out what I needed inside and left the rucksack in the vestible area.

Thanks for the comments.
The Main Range tops are very exposed, so my use of the walking poles was taken from a warning I had seen to ensure I tensioned the middle loop and added the walking pole option when expecting wind.
Someone had also mentioned that the cross pole was not needed for wind - so I had not brought it along.
I do intend to use it when I am on rock (probably in the Flinders Ranges) - I have already used it in self standing mode when I put it up inside the house. Impressive!

I will just run with the middle loop guy ropes to cater for wind for now and see how it goes.
That first night I was obviously a bit spooked about the wind and I think I over tensioned everything,which probably assisted the breakdown of the stitching.
Second night I only used 1 walking pole and I did not tension it nearly as much.

[rucksack]

Eggs, I agree with you on all those good points and with the extra pole making it free-standing, the TT Moment is a very decent (and light) option for the Flinders Ranges.

rucksack

[north-north-west]

eggs:

I'm not really nagging, just a bit of a stir but, technically, I think both of your campsites may be illegal. The areas defined by dubberParks as 'Alpine Lake Catchment' extend well beyond the watershed. The whole summit area of Townsend is included, as is Twynam saddle and the summit area of Little Twynam.