One Planet - Quality and Service

[stepbystep]

Hi all, after all the gushing and good vibes over One Planet I feel it's time for some balance.

After all the wonderful reports on the McMillan and Mungo packs, I decided on grabbing the Mungo as I needed a smaller multi day pack.

Upon getting it I was very happy but 2 things I instantly noted. I thought the waist band buckle was a little small and I didn't like the look of the plastic(bit cheap looking in comparison to my other pack). The buckle 'cuts in' a little on the gut, I noted on a friend's older model Mungo this buckle and strap is broader.
The other thing I noted was the blue canvas panels felt for want of a better word 'brittle', but with very little experience with canvas thought this must just be because it was new.

Anyhow the pack felt great, the harness system also felt great and I was really happy to get 5 days gear(just) into such a small pack.
I set off to do The Pelion Circuit skipping Pelion East and Ossa. The first day is track walking with very little to no scrub to contend with and we spent a great night at Paddy's Nut campsite.

The second day was to be boulders boulders boulders, going over Paddy's Nut and Mt Thetis to Leonard's Tarn. The pack felt good on the back and I had more confidence with balance than with my big pack.
Upon arriving at Leonard's I noticed several holes in one side panel, obviously caused by scraping along the boulders. Now dolerite can be a nasty beast but my expectation would be for a pack described by One Planet as "Designed for tackling extended walks and multi-day treks in comfort" to handle a bit of rough 'n' tumble. There was no point on the days traverse that I felt any serious scraping where I would have suspected any damage happening. There was no sharp items on the outside of the pack.

So upon return I called One Planet and put the question to them, the woman I spoke to who shall remain nameless at the moment was a bit put out to speak with a disappointed customer, she basically said it looked like acceptable wear and tear and One Planet would either fix it for around $100 plus postage or send me a couple of patches. This person was abrupt and to my mind quite rude, she wanted me off the phone as soon as possible and basically blamed my carelessness for the damage. I will say my demeanor on the phone was disappointed but open, I was not in the slightest bit aggressive as I wanted a positive outcome.

Now paying nearly $400 for a pack is a lot of money for me and to add another $130-odd is a just too much to bear, so I've asked for the patches.

Personally I've been left cold, prior to this episode I was very happy an Australian manufacturer was getting my money, but I have had far better service from Macpac with a damaged item and there is far better value for money to be held online. I was considering the McMillan to replace my large pack and had even considered the Stilleto and OP gaiters. Now I don't think I will

Oh and as a side note the reason given for the change in waist band buckles were "looks" hardly a determining factor I would think...

So my questions to you, are my expectations too high?

Should a manufacturer behave in this way?

Should a manufacturer back their equipment in the real world of bushwalking?

What are your thoughts on these matters?

Cheers, Dan

[ollster]

Kick them where it hurts Dan. It's for their own good. Personally I'm a fanboy, but I'm appalled by this.

Really the areas toward the bottom-side of the pack really should be better protected for a pack that is supposedly a tough one.

[Moondog55]

How old?/
Small claims for sure
:Not fit for purpose/misleading advertising:

[doogs]

As someone who is in the market for a new pack I am saddened to hear a reputable manufacturer seems to be cutting corners on quality and lacking in service. If Australian manufacturers want us to buy local products these are the 2 most important things in my opinion. I am liking the look of the WE Breakout or Mont Pioneer as a well made Australian pack when I get my tax return.

[stepbystep]

How old?/
Small claims for sure
:Not fit for purpose/misleading advertising:

The pack was in it's second day of it's walking life...

As someone who is in the market for a new pack I am saddened to hear a reputable manufacturer seems to be cutting corners on quality and lacking in service. If Australian manufacturers want us to buy local products these are the 2 most important things in my opinion. I am liking the look of the WE Breakout or Mont Pioneer as a well made Australian pack when I get my tax return.

Exactly doogs. If I screw up something in my work, I fix it for free, if a client is important to me I look after them, I guess I'm just not important enough for OP to bother about.

[Nuts]

What outcome are you hoping for sbs?

[Son of a Beach]

I've been a One Planet fan for years so this is disappointing. I'd gotten the impression from others that their after sales service was better than that.

I'd consider taking it further with them, but it's hard to know if it would be worth the stress.

[Gusto]

I am rather astonished that firstly you did manage to tear the fabric on it's second day. Strictly speaking if it's not a stitching fault then I can understand that it is subsequently not an error in construction. And generally I wouldn't expect a manufacturer to repair that. But on it's 2nd day of use does lead me to wonder if perhaps it was a weak batch of canvas. Your best to take it to the shop your purchased it and get their opinion.

With some luck you may have bought it from a Snowgum Store. Perhaps you could explain that your not satisfied with the purchase. http://www.snowgum.com.au/snowgum-guarantee

[gayet]

As it was one representative's response that has caused concern, try to speak to someone further up the chain - might be difficult - but worth a try.
1. You may find the first response is not OK with the company and they will address your concerns more appropriately and satisfactorily.
2. a similar response will confirm your concerns and you need have no qualms about taking your business elsewhere.

If the opportunity arises, refer them to this topic. If nothing else, it highlights the damage being done to their reputation but poor quality and poor service.

I am concerned as I have a WBA that is yet to see service and I was expecting better than you have found.

[stepbystep]

What outcome are you hoping for sbs?

Some responses from other OP customers.
Some response from others associated with OP.
I would hate to see a good company go downhill, we all need a kick up the pants sometime.

I was hoping I was alone but I know of one other person that has had similar issues(and I don't know many people).

I'd consider taking it further with them, but it's hard to know if it would be worth the stress.

I've made 2 calls and the woman I get put onto is not very helpful or interested.

I am rather astonished that firstly you did manage to tear the fabric on it's second day. Strictly speaking if it's not a stitching fault then I can understand that it is subsequently not an error in construction. And generally I wouldn't expect a manufacturer to repair that. But on it's 2nd day of use does lead me to wonder if perhaps it was a weak batch of canvas. Your best to take it to the shop your purchased it and get their opinion.

Agreed, I bought it online through Kelly's Basecamp, and they were quite good about it and put me in contact with One Planet directly as I didn't want to be harassing them. They gave me excellent service when purchasing the pack and despite there being very limited supplies went out of their way to get me a pack in time for this trip. Perhaps it is worth contacting them again as maybe they have better leverage with OP???

@gayet, the only person I know with a WBA holed his on it's first trip. He is far too nice a bloke to kick up a stink though. Be careful with it!!!

If the opportunity arises, refer them to this topic. If nothing else, it highlights the damage being done to their reputation but poor quality and poor service.

Part of my motivation

[ILUVSWTAS]

What outcome are you hoping for sbs?

Some responses from other OP customers.

OK I guess thats me, as owner of 2 OP packs and OP gaiters.....

I holed a macpac cascade pack on it's first trip, i've had my op packs for 2 and 3 years respectively, both still going strong... Many rate the macpac packs as being one of the toughest, yet i did hole it in similar style to your mungo.

I think you just got unlucky SBS :p

Very happy with my packs, and the gaiters are by far the best i've ever owned... currently nearing 2 years of owning them.. i'd have gone through 5 or 6 pairs of STS in this time.

BUT as I was on the walk with you that holed your pack, i can certainly say we wernt doing anything that should have created that mess.... still, thats the nature of offtrack walking sadly!!

I should also add that after comparing the waist strap and buckle on our 2 packs, the quality of yours (the newer one) does seem inferior....

[Moondog55]

Based on my exchange with MD I would suggest you write a critique of the product, state the date and place of purchase when you used it and where and why you think the item is not fit for the purpose purchased and send the letter to them, ASAP email and a registered letter

[stepbystep]

I holed a macpac cascade pack on it's first trip, i've had my op packs for 2 and 3 years respectively, both still going strong... Many rate the macpac packs as being one of the toughest, yet i did hole it in similar style to your mungo.

Fair play, bu the only ti've had a problem with Macpac gear they went out of their way to help. Didn't just replace the item, but offered options better suited to my needs. THAT my friend is customer service!

I think you just got unlucky SBS

Bad luck is stubbing your toe, getting bad service is just rude. IF this product has no issues then they should be prepared to stand behind it. The OP person told me I was unlucky as well...

I should also add that after comparing the waist strap and buckle on our 2 packs, the quality of yours (the newer one) does seem inferior....

...and what would this indicate? To my eyes I saw cost cutting, pure and simple. The buckle/strap looks far more robust on the older model.

Based on my exchange with MD I would suggest you write a critique of the product, state the date and place of purchase when you used it and where and why you think the item is not fit for the purpose purchased and send the letter to them, ASAP email and a registered letter

Not a bad suggestion. Cheers!

[ILUVSWTAS]

No I agree with everything your saying, Im just a happy/satisfied OP user and thought i'd better balance the thread...

True Macpac's customer service is better than any other i've dealt with, with the possible exception of the friendly and helpful staff at my local MD's.....

[stepbystep]

No I agree with everything your saying, Im just a happy/satisfied OP user and thought i'd better balance the thread...

True Macpac's customer service is better than any other i've dealt with, with the possible exception of the friendly and helpful staff at my local MD's.....

Balance away mate. I know OP have produced quality equipment for some time(that's why I forked out the extra $$$), but things appear to be changing, and I appear to be getting the raw end of the stick.

First lesson I have learned is to be more patient and pay a little more. If I had have bought in store I could have had a real person to deal with that could have represented my concerns better. It always pays to be able to eyeball the person you are talking too.

[ollster]

First lesson I have learned is to be more patient and pay a little more. If I had have bought in store I could have had a real person to deal with that could have represented my concerns better. It always pays to be able to eyeball the person you are talking too.

True that. I've tried to where I can buy locally if they will price match or close to. You won't pay more in the case of OP anyway, as the price diff between say Passion8 and the place you bought yours from is not that large and P8 price matched the last time I bought a pack there.

[stepbystep]

First lesson I have learned is to be more patient and pay a little more. If I had have bought in store I could have had a real person to deal with that could have represented my concerns better. It always pays to be able to eyeball the person you are talking too.

True that. I've tried to where I can buy locally if they will price match or close to. You won't pay more in the case of OP anyway, as the price diff between say Passion8 and the place you bought yours from is not that large and P8 price matched the last time I bought a pack there.

Yup, that's what I mean about having more patience. I really wanted this pack for this trip and the only place I could get it on time was online, but I'm still backing the service from Kelly's - no problem there at all.

It all comes down to the way I got treated by OP directly....

[Azza]

hmmmm... I've been very happy with my OP McMillan and was on the verge of splashing out to join the Mungo club as well.
As you know SBS I've put my McMillan through the Eldons and plenty more - an entire year of abuse and I've only managed a couple of tiny holes on the bottom.
I call that fair wear and tear..
Compared to what you would have done on the Pelion Circuit - its got me having second thoughts about buying one.
Hopefully OP are not sacrificing quality and service...

Bit annoying really when you compared your experience and treatment compared to what some of our mates received a few months ago...

[Nuts]

What outcome are you hoping for sbs?

Some responses from other OP customers.
Some response from others associated with OP.
I would hate to see a good company go downhill, we all need a kick up the pants sometime.

I was hoping I was alone but I know of one other person that has had similar issues(and I don't know many people).

Fair enough, was just thinking that either a free fix (perhaps including a custom heavier strap/buckle thrown in..) or a moneyback return are about the only options. Customer service just a means to an end.

Iv'e only had a vertex and umbra, neither using that ripstop material, the OP website has always been light on detail, i'm not sure if that's the waterloc poly/cotton or something else. Over solid Canvas it stands to reason that there would be little need for the reinforcing unless it was a lighter weight to start. Perhaps it is being made lighter? (Personally i can't understand why they are trying to make canvas lighter and not just try a more modern material altogether, they do soak up a Lot of water..)

Looks like it would stitch ok?

There's not a lot of local choice, as far as money to spend on something else neither WE or Mont are locally made. Pleanty of other good packs made around the world, some heavily built, many cheaper and a few also with a more modern (better) hip-belt system...

[ClintB]

Wow that is such a shame, i can not believe that you are been treated this way. I have always been under the impression that OP have been built to last, but as you say maybe times are changing (i certainly hope not).

I agree that you should seek another response from someone higher up, i would have thought that they would be very interested to get a look at the pack in the flesh to try and determine why the pack has failed so early in its life.

If nothing else atleast you have made them aware that you are not happy with the performance of their gear.

Good luck and will be very interested on reading the outcome

[Son of a Beach]

I agree with others that a letter would be better than a phone call (perhaps initially preced by or duplicated in an email?), if the first two phone calls have not produced a satisfactory result. A phone call is quickly dealt with, and once the hung up, the issue is completely finished as far as the person at the other end is concerned.

A letter should be responded to in writing, and once something is put in writing, it has to be very carefully thought out, and the words cannot be retracted. Ie, it is never completely over and finished with, as you can retain a copy of their reply for further reference at any time in the future. Therefore it is a more powerful tool than a phone call.

They may still officially say that it's just fair wear and tear, but it may be worth a try.

[sthughes]

For rough stuff I've never liked the way that the Mungo (and the lighter weight One Planet packs) have the canvas going all the way to the bottom on the sides. Despite the ice axe crap etc. on the Stiletto I think it is probably the pick for toughness in that 60 odd litre range.

As for service, mmm well I can see both sides to the argument. But frankly it looks more like wear and tear than a manufacturing issue. Perhaps a design issue having exposed canvas down there, but really they don't hide the fact. I guess if I bought a new Toyota Hilux and hit a rock and broke it trying to drive it on a very rough 4x4 track 2 days after I got it, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they refused to fix it despite their "unbreakable" claims.

[stepbystep]

I agree Simon, I guess I'm most miffed by the dismissive service. Might draft a letter...

I also started this thread because I get sick of people spruiking bits of gear like it's the be-all-and-end-all, and there has been a fair bit of this going on as far as OP are concerned. I recall similar spruiking in regards to at least 2 pairs of boots and another brand of packs a few years back, all of which are now considered not so flash.

Be warned people, nothing and no-one is perfect...

[Nuts]

For rough stuff I've never liked the way that the Mungo (and the lighter weight One Planet packs) have the canvas going all the way to the bottom on the sides. Despite the ice axe crap etc. on the Stiletto I think it is probably the pick for toughness in that 60 odd litre range.

The ice axe cups, bladder holder, minor bits can be easily removed. Cant tell they were there on the vertex and lightened up a bit.

Lots of gear seems to give a range of results in different hands, often the difference between thumbs up or down. If something (personally) proves crap, even mates gear (or advice lol) its worth mentioning (imo), the minor details and tweeks can make a difference.

[nakedape]

I've been using an OP (strezleki) pack for 6 years & the worst that has happened is that the logo has come adrift. In that time we've done our share of off track walking & some pack hauling. When we were looking for a pack for the missus all the sales folks were saying things like: 10 years life walking offtrack in Tas for the OP, 5 years for osprey. So your experience is concerning. Your pics seem to indicate that the canvas is thin & weak - its a result that doesn't fit with what the sales guys are saying.

I would ring back & ask to speak to someone higher up the food chain (If I were them I'd replace it as an act of good faith as it was only two days old). I'd also email with pics and a link to this forum. Do not give up until they have physically inspected the pack.

[roysta]

One Planet gear isn't the be all and end all.
I have a Cocoon 400 sleeping bag that is only 3 years old and has been so carefully looked after.
Yet the stitching unravelled in many places and the down moved from baffle to baffle.
I took it to a repair place and it was going to cost me a good deal to fix.
That got me looking at the strength of the stitching on that bag compared to some others.
The others were all sturdier.
Anyway, the upshot of this is I just went out and bought a more than adequate replacement, a Western Mountaineering Ultralite.
Now THAT'S a ball-tearer of a bag, with very strong stitching.

[Dale]

Anyway, the upshot of this is I just went out and bought a more than adequate replacement, a Western Mountaineering Ultralite.
Now THAT'S a ball-tearer of a bag, with very strong stitching.

Hah ! Western Mountaineering has a new by-line !

[Gusto]

If you're truely wanting locally made packs then there are a couple of alternatives.

http://www.summitgear.com.au

http://www.cactusclimbing.co.nz/

http://twinneedle.co.nz/packs.html

Aside from that. I have always been happy with W.E. Also I use OP stuff for work regularly and feel they produce equally good gear too.

[Ent]

Hi

Interesting reading. Strongly suggest sending a letter and or email with photographs addressed to the personal attention of Andrew King. Sadly many business have a poor receptionist and their personality dams the rest of the organisation. I brawled with Telstra and just as I almost gave up all hope struck a human-being that managed to fix an issue that their dedicated complaints department could not for a week.

I am with Sthughes on the pack bottom. The McMillan through to Styx use a nylon re-inforced bottom which is very tough. The Stiletto is even better protected as designed as a mountaineering pack. The Mungo does not and the WBA packs rely on the canvas alone, which is even lighter grade. But abrasion is a tricky issue. I find any hard edge object in a pack can make an anvil where the canvas will abrade quickly when it contacts rock. As mentioned, certain rocks can wear straight through on a single bump/drag. I on the WA I holed my Styx in a few places. Each time there was a hard edge object buried in the pack. I consider this normal wear and tear as me at 110 kilograms with stuffed pack at 25 kilograms sliding down a rocky slope being a recipe to expect some damage. Personally I would much rather it be the pack than me Some people are naturally easier on packs while I hold no qualms using mine as a friction break if the situation calls for it. Judging by the deep cuts in my boots the rocks are not very friendly in the SW.

The buckle is easily replaced with an older type if you prefer. Actually, I prefer the newer type as it is less inclined to be opened by my "gut" pushing the release prongs in and handles the wear and tear better. What kills buckles is releasing them under load. Short of an emergency pack dump you should always release the tension on the buckle by loosing off the straps. Honestly, the 38mm buckle is fine and strong enough but does look small compared to a 50mm buckle. I have had 50mm buckles fail even sooner as I like the waist belt tight. If you look, most prong buckles are made by one firm, and I am not a fan of that firm as their design relies on the locking edge being sharp with any burring causing an issue. Nor am I fan of the press in prong type either and have for other packs changed over to the brilliant Berghaus flap buckle design but sadly this type does not work with the the One Planet Exact Fit harness system. I have looked at many buckles but all prong types tend to have issues. I am lobbying hard for any manufacture to "steal" Berghaus' design.

I have five One Planet packs, McMillan, Styx, Mungo, Bass and Traverse. I have abraded holed the Mungo with a very gentle slide where a hard edge plastic box was packed in tight. The Styx suffered a few holes but pack hauling and me sliding on it meant that this was expected. In fact, I am rather amazed how little damage given my treatment. The Styx is brand new while the Mungo is many years old so doubt if it is, "not made as they use to be".

The smaller the pack the more likely it will be stuffed solid and hence less give so more chance of damage. Also the pack design can be a reason. One Planet packs tend to have their volume by being thicker while a WE Lost Planet is rather thinner but is wider by comparison. This means you are likely to bump the back of the One Planet pack more than say the WE while on the WE more likely to rub the sides.

Anyway, please give One Planet a chance to make good. Though from the photographs the damage looks very much like abraded wear from an unlucky encounter with an abrasive rock rather than material failure. Then again it might be a bad batch of canvas. If you love is off track then maybe a Stiletto would be a better choice or a pack design that is not as thick for its volume. As for the canvas. Me thinks that WE, MacPac and One Planet use the same stuff but could be wrong. I have the same canvas on my OP gaiters and they sailed through with only mud making them look less than new.

Cheers

[rucksack]

SBS, I'm with Ent on this. I would address your correspondence to Andrew King. You might get an entirely different response. I have a OP McMillan, which is a great pack for extended walking and it has the heavy duty nylon 'double skin' right around its base. I have not ever had any trouble, even in really difficult scrub. Before the McMillan, I used a Macpac Cascade for 13 years and I gave that a very hard life too, and again, I had no problems, even pack-hauling up and over the Notch one day in a 'skyline traverse' of Lightening Ridge that dropped me into the Notch from the eastern side - and dropped is the correct verb. Yes, it was interesting, but even that only scuffed up the sides and bottom of the Cascade, although I was a little more worse for wear. I haven't got a Mungo and I can only go on the on-site photos (yours here and on the OP site) and it seems to me that the bottoms of the sides of the Mungo are rather 'unprotected' for off-track work. Am I right? Is it just one layer of canvas at the bottom of the sides, and the double layer with the nylon is only underneath the very bottom of the pack and at the very back, (but not on the sides at all)? Perhaps, it might be worth asking OP to do a modification for you; adding a nylon second layer at the bottom of both sides?

rucksack