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TIP: The online Bushwalk Inventory System can help bushwalkers with a variety of bushwalk planning tasks, including: Manage which items they take bushwalking so that they do not forget anything they might need, plan meals for their walks, and automatically compile food/fuel shopping lists (lists of consumables) required to make and cook the meals for each walk. It is particularly useful for planning for groups who share food or other items, but is also useful for individual walkers.Lighter is Better
Thu 20 May, 2010 6:04 pm
G'day all,
Thought this forum may be of interest in view of the Mont sleeping bag debate
http://www.trailspace.com/forums/gear-s ... 70807.html
corvus
Thought this forum may be of interest in view of the Mont sleeping bag debate
http://www.trailspace.com/forums/gear-s ... 70807.html
corvus
Re: Lighter is Better
Thu 20 May, 2010 6:44 pm
that's very interesting. I don't think a lot of the UL stuff is good for Tassie.
Re: Lighter is Better
Thu 20 May, 2010 9:48 pm
Different people same debate 
Good point though on camp comfort and being warm enough to socialise. I used to lug polar fleece jackets but found them very bulky and weighty for the warmth then when walking with a very experience walker was introduced to a down jacket a few years back. It is now my evening wear and pillow also my emergency shelter (in conjunction with rain gear) if the wheels fall off. Sure I could dump the jacket and retreat into a sleeping bag once the sun goes down but for me the weight is worth comfort and ability to stay up.
Ok there is nothing wrong in getting the lightest down jacket you can afford but there is a huge price premium between a 500 and 850 loft one and also some light weight fabric might not last the distance. I have a 500 loft Kathmandu one that has very light material and a Mont with Hydronaut, a robust casing, and 700 loft. They are about the same weight but the Mont is a so much nicer jacket. Tempting is a 850 loft jacket with a light casing such as the WM ones but not sure if I could handle it been damaged on a trek meeting a call of nature. I did see a knock-off of the WM jacket but poor fit, crummy finish and flimsy casing material and hyper expensive price put me off so for a bit more weight I am happy with the Mont.
At the end of the day it is a personal choice and robust debate is a good thing as we can all learn something from a different view point and this weekend I will be trailing lighter rain gear. Might work well, might be a disaster but at least means I can accept or refute what works best, at least for me
Cheers Brett
Good point though on camp comfort and being warm enough to socialise. I used to lug polar fleece jackets but found them very bulky and weighty for the warmth then when walking with a very experience walker was introduced to a down jacket a few years back. It is now my evening wear and pillow also my emergency shelter (in conjunction with rain gear) if the wheels fall off. Sure I could dump the jacket and retreat into a sleeping bag once the sun goes down but for me the weight is worth comfort and ability to stay up.
Ok there is nothing wrong in getting the lightest down jacket you can afford but there is a huge price premium between a 500 and 850 loft one and also some light weight fabric might not last the distance. I have a 500 loft Kathmandu one that has very light material and a Mont with Hydronaut, a robust casing, and 700 loft. They are about the same weight but the Mont is a so much nicer jacket. Tempting is a 850 loft jacket with a light casing such as the WM ones but not sure if I could handle it been damaged on a trek meeting a call of nature. I did see a knock-off of the WM jacket but poor fit, crummy finish and flimsy casing material and hyper expensive price put me off so for a bit more weight I am happy with the Mont.
At the end of the day it is a personal choice and robust debate is a good thing as we can all learn something from a different view point and this weekend I will be trailing lighter rain gear. Might work well, might be a disaster but at least means I can accept or refute what works best, at least for me
Cheers Brett
Re: Lighter is Better
Fri 21 May, 2010 8:31 am
The Trailspace debate is interesting but I feel some of the Trailspace members are ill informed about lightweight gear.
There are a few myths about going lightweight, but going lightweight is not about compromising safety you might have to sacrifice some comfort but not Safety, it is about leaving behind all of those things that things that you have to have but do not need, I have found that as I have been leaving comfort items at home I have been enjoying my walking more I go walking to enjoy the bush and besides if you want lounge room type comfort, stay at home.
On Trailspace Lighter better thread a lot of the debate was about lighter gear is weaker, but this is also falling by the wayside these days, take the MacPac Olympus tent, it used the weigh 3.8kg, the latest model weighs in at 3.1kg and according to Cam the a lot the weight savings was through lighter fly material and MacPacs testing showed that the lighter material was stronger than the old fly material. Also Roger Caffin makes his tents which are half the weight of the Olympus out of lightweight Silnylon and he has tested his tents in gale force winds on the Main range in the Australian Alps and they have held up very well.
Tony
There are a few myths about going lightweight, but going lightweight is not about compromising safety you might have to sacrifice some comfort but not Safety, it is about leaving behind all of those things that things that you have to have but do not need, I have found that as I have been leaving comfort items at home I have been enjoying my walking more I go walking to enjoy the bush and besides if you want lounge room type comfort, stay at home.
On Trailspace Lighter better thread a lot of the debate was about lighter gear is weaker, but this is also falling by the wayside these days, take the MacPac Olympus tent, it used the weigh 3.8kg, the latest model weighs in at 3.1kg and according to Cam the a lot the weight savings was through lighter fly material and MacPacs testing showed that the lighter material was stronger than the old fly material. Also Roger Caffin makes his tents which are half the weight of the Olympus out of lightweight Silnylon and he has tested his tents in gale force winds on the Main range in the Australian Alps and they have held up very well.
Tony
Re: Lighter is Better
Fri 21 May, 2010 9:52 am
All too often people get stuck on pre-conceived ideas. For example the repeated comment about "you get ripped off" buying high end gear.
(and BTW, I have seen a few of those Z Packs, neither silnylon nor Cuben is anything like Tyvek, so comparing costs performance with that is totally ridiculous)
As I mentioned before , there is a very good reason why a keen cyclist can spend 15k or more on a 7 kg bike. I too am well aware that a 20kilo version will last longer, but that is not the point is it ?
Same for backpacking gear. If you are happy carrying a 4 kg tent for 20 years, well go ahead. I prefer to have a 1 kg version that I may have to buy again in 5 or 10 years from now.
In fact I prefer to have a few tents to chose the right one for the job.
Same for my mat (yes I know that the Neo Air is not going to be warm on snow...) sleeping bag etc.
Of course not everybody can afford multiples, however it does not mean that the ones that can and do are stupid...
Franco
(and BTW, I have seen a few of those Z Packs, neither silnylon nor Cuben is anything like Tyvek, so comparing costs performance with that is totally ridiculous)
As I mentioned before , there is a very good reason why a keen cyclist can spend 15k or more on a 7 kg bike. I too am well aware that a 20kilo version will last longer, but that is not the point is it ?
Same for backpacking gear. If you are happy carrying a 4 kg tent for 20 years, well go ahead. I prefer to have a 1 kg version that I may have to buy again in 5 or 10 years from now.
In fact I prefer to have a few tents to chose the right one for the job.
Same for my mat (yes I know that the Neo Air is not going to be warm on snow...) sleeping bag etc.
Of course not everybody can afford multiples, however it does not mean that the ones that can and do are stupid...
Franco
Re: Lighter is Better
Fri 21 May, 2010 10:24 am
It's probably fair to apply the old phrase, "you get what you pay for" here.
Some people are prepared to pay a higher price for gear that they are more confident that it will last longer. Some people are prepared to pay a higher price for gear that will weigh less.
If you are able to get gear that is both durable and light, then I reckon that's worth an even higher premium still.
The discussion linked to in the original post does make some good points, but it also has some incorrect assumptions and generalisations - much the a same as most of the light weight debates I've read.
Some people are prepared to pay a higher price for gear that they are more confident that it will last longer. Some people are prepared to pay a higher price for gear that will weigh less.
If you are able to get gear that is both durable and light, then I reckon that's worth an even higher premium still.
The discussion linked to in the original post does make some good points, but it also has some incorrect assumptions and generalisations - much the a same as most of the light weight debates I've read.
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