Advice needed for a tent

[denncarm]

As the subject says I am seeking some assistance with selecting a tent. I am getting together some equipment so that I can start doing overnight and longer walks; working up to do one of the multi day walks around Christmas, probably in Tasmania or New Zealand. The walks will be for my wife and myself.

I live in Brisbane and I am tending towards having two tents, one for the summer months with as much ventilation as possible and another tent for the cooler months.

I am currently after advice for a cooler weather tent. Since this is my first serious tent I want to be able to walk in and touch what I am buying, this limits me to what I can buy in Brisbane (Not that much of a limitation) also my wife feels the cold and I would prefer a tent which was warmer in the cold but mat not be particularly useful in the summer months.

Current thinking is that I would like as much floor area as I can, a 4 season tent, have 2 vestibules and limit the packed weight to less than 3K. There seems to be a price point around $600 to $700 which would be nice to hit but this is not set in concrete. (Cheaper would be better)

Within these constraints I looked around the stores in Brisbane and produced the following list and would love some comments from people who have used any of these, or any advantages or disadvantages anyone can see.

Sierra Leone Ultra
Wilderness Equipment Second Arrow, (it has the smallest floor area of any in this list.)
Wilderness Equipment First Arrow with Siliconised Fly (but it is 3.4Kg)
MSR Hubba Hubba
Mont Krypton

Thanks in advance.

[johnw]

I can only comment in detail on the Second Arrow, as we own one. It's a robust design and very well made, with some well thought out features. Has stood up to some violent winds with no problems. It can be a bit cramped for two and you need to use the available space judiciously. There is only one vestibule, so that doesn't meet your criteria, although the space is quite usable. We normally leave packs outside in large garbage bags and use the vestibule to store cooking equipment, food and other gear in dry bags. I found it awkward to put up the first couple of times but seem to be better at it now having done a few more trips. There's a bit of a technique to threading the poles through their sleeves quickly. Once mastered it can be pitched rapidly with the inner attached, which is useful in bad weather. You can adjust the configuration at each end to get quite a lot of ventilation, so possibly OK for summer as well as winter. Probably not a good choice for taller people though. I'd expect the First Arrow to be similar design and construction-wise but you'd have more space (at a weight penalty).

BTW I think the MSR Hubba Hubba is only rated 3 season, but I like that tent myself. The old model had a mostly mesh inner (good for summer but not winter in severe conditions) but I believe the new version may be better. Also look at the Luxe Habitat for a much cheaper copy of that design, which still looks reasonable quality to me.

Try and put each shortlisted tent up in the shop (yourself). Both get in, lie down, sit up etc (borrow their sleeping mats etc and put those in as well). In other words try and simulate actual use as far as possible. I found that most gear retailers will happily let you do all of this (some may want to supervise or assist; that's OK). Check out the quality in minute detail. Also try taking the tents down and packing them away.

[Franco]

Denncarm
Warning: I am a passionate advocate of Tarptent ( http://www.tarptent.com/ ) , not necessaraly tarp tents.
I have been playing for a few days with the Scarp 1 in my backyard and for the first time in ages we have had some good rain. We also had nights starting at 23c and ending at 19c in the morning, around 80% humidity . This has given me the opportunity to test it for condensation and ventilation. Did very well on both accounts. (by the way , this is the first double wall tent I have slept in years, apart from the car camping type)
The two doors set up (mine is the single, the double is the same design but larger) and the slight gap between the ground and the fly allows for good air circulation. Note the vents at the apex.
I am also working on an alternative freestanding set up (it's done but not official) so that you will be ale to have a freestanding inner (bugnet) fly only , fly and inner and a stronger set up for high winds and bigger snow loads.
Think of it as a larger Hilleberg Akto for the single , and a very spacious but versatile (all season) double tent. With today's exchange , provably around $600 AU inc postage.
Franco
Scarp 1 (single) compared with the BD Lighthouse (double)
Scarp 1 opened up (same for Scarp 2)

[dee_legg]

I think the Kyptron is an awesome tent! I love mont, so i am possibly a bit bias. But it would fit your criteria other than it's rated to 3-4, however i'd be taking it anywhere in Tas. You can find all the specs on the website but they don't mention the red pegs which are obviously the most awesome part of the tent
Maybe the Mont moondance 2 would suit you also.

[denncarm]

Hi All thanks for the comments, this is what I am after, information from people who have been three andpossibly used the tents.

Johnw
I read that the Second Arrow has a small second vestibule, which I was thinking of for ventilation at the time, htis would require that the packs be left outside so that we could use the large vestibule for access, what is the weather protection like if it is raining, does the rain get through into the body of the tent. At 2.6 sq m I would prefer something slightly larger but a number of people on this forum seem to like the tent and in the end strength and reliability take a higher priority.

I knew the hubba hubba was only 3 season but one of the people I was talking to uses one and he is very passionate about it, it has a bit of mesh but it is only on the top half of the entry and apparently it does not cause him a problem.

Thanks for the comments of the Luxe Habitat, i will check it out tonight and certainly remember your comments about putting up the tent in the shop.

Franco
Thanks for that I will check out the Tarptent site tonight but I would prefer to walk into a shop and actually see the tent before I buy it.

Dee-Legg
Thanks for your comments on the Krypon, I knwe it was a 3-4 season tent but I will not be deliberately goint gamping in seasons which will require a 4 season tent but I want to be ready for any unexpected weather so I thought that this would suffice.

Thanks everybody, keep the comments coming.

[johnw]

I read that the Second Arrow has a small second vestibule, which I was thinking of for ventilation at the time, htis would require that the packs be left outside so that we could use the large vestibule for access, what is the weather protection like if it is raining, does the rain get through into the body of the tent. At 2.6 sq m I would prefer something slightly larger but a number of people on this forum seem to like the tent and in the end strength and reliability take a higher priority.

The small vestibule can be useful but realistically will not store much more than one or two pairs of boots. It can be used for tent access but it's a crawl on your belly type of access. You can expose the mesh panels at either end of the inner for ventilation but keep the fly closed up. No rain will enter in this configuration. The design allows for entry/exit through the either side of the main vestibule with little or no weather getting in. This also allows a surprising amount to be stored in the vestibule without impeding entry/exit. You may be able to shoehorn packs in there but it would limit usability of the vestibule for anything else. You can also slightly open the fly/door above the main vestibule for a bit more ventilation and should stay dry. If it's not raining (or snowing) you can open up the fly at each end, and fully expose the mesh panels for full (insect-proof) ventilation. Or completely open up everything if insects aren't a concern. The tent is quite cleverly designed, just a bit compact. Although we were reasonably comfortable and warm in it during rain, snow and violent wind in the Tasmanian highlands Dec/Jan just past (typical Tassie summer ).

If you are considering that tent it's also worth reading the detailed info on the WE or STS sites:
http://www.wildequipment.com.au/tent_detail.php?Code=WE2ACOMSIL

[dee_legg]

Thats cool. Its on display at Mt Creek Outdoors in Hobart also.

[NickD]

I've bad feedback about the Mont Krypton. Used them a lot, and the *&%$#! built in floor always filled up with water. Unfortunately there wasn't enough of an overlap between the fly to protect the built in groundsheet from becoming a bucket. I hope bad feedback like this isn't shun upon on these forums, but in my honest opinion, it wasn't a good tent. I do recommend a lot of Mont gear, think its a fantastic brand, but they had work to do here.

The First Arrow and Second Arrow are good tents, but in Sea To Summit's collection I think the new Dart 2 Winter edition is the pick of the bunch.

MSR Hubba Hubba is not a winter tent, all mesh inner, fly not strong enough.

[loric]

G'day,

I've had the first arrow (siliconised version) for about 5/6? years now.
It's excellent in the wet and wind and cold. Integral pitch is ace when it's raining already.
It's also pretty good in the heat (Vic and SA summer). Excellent ventilation as the vestibule flys can be zipped downwards (kinda like a tarp covering your gear in the vestibules). I find this the best way to combat the heat.
I've been walking with mates who have the dart1 and 2, it has a mesh inner which is much cooler in the heat (but draughty in the winter).
I've also owned a Salewa (previous version to the ultra). Very warm tent as the ventilation is kinda on the poor side. Flipside is that the tent is very warm in the winter.

The biggest plus for the first arrow is that that it is HUGE inside. The missus loves having heaps of room. It's ace when it's bucketing outside and all ya gear is under cover. The big vestibule can fit two big packs+. The little vestibule really only good for boots and drying clothes. It's kinda heavy, but in the scheme of things it's like two cups of water in weight over the lighter tents...

Check out bogong.com.au for a tent buying guide.

have fun buying! (i like buying gear... LOL)

[DonQx]

+1 on the 1st Arrow, fully agree with loric.

Out of your choice of 5 tents in the first post this would be my choice.

Friends of ours have the Sierra Leone Ultra. Lighter, but smaller dimensions & seems not quite the same quality as the standard SL. Something or other failed on it recently after not a lot of use, can't remember what, maybe some stitching.

I recently bought a siliconised 1st Arrow eucalypt coloured in a flush of "I like the looks of that" ... (and that brought the number of tents in our garage back up to 7 ... and it does the same job as our Hilleberg Nallo 3 [Nallo 3 wouldn't match your requirements tho, no rear vestibule and ventilation quite poor] ... maybe I should sell the 1stA again? ... PM me if you could be interested) ... it weighs 3.25 kg fully packed with all pegs on our cheapie kitchen scales which have been calibrated with 1L of water = 1kg.

A very well designed tent that has been refined over nearly 2 decades methinks. Great materials, great workmanship.

[loric]

they have an olive green coloured one now?!

That's cool.

My one is bright bright yellow. Not exactly the easiest colour to remain discreet in. Very hard to hide in the scrub. Also the light bright colour amplifies the early morning sun - so no chance to sleep in!

The only positive with a bright tent is that emergency services can find you? Or maybe to find your way back to a base camp in foul weather??

[tasadam]

Tents. Such an emotive issue.
My first experience in the Tasmanian wilderness was with a mate in his cheap chinese copy of a tunnel tent that got destroyed by high winds on a mountain one night, while we were in it.
My first tent was a Hallmark Snowcave - do a search, you will find lots of posts from me on it and some photos too. Not much point though as it is not available any more.
It was a two person tunnel tent with two udeable vestubles.
After about 18 years, I retired it and boughht, after MUCH research, a Hilleberg Nallo2. It is half the weight.
Price - used to be in your range, but with the dollar the way it is, over $800 now
Weight - 2.1 kilo's. Half the weight of my old tent.
Season - true 4 season, lightweight tent.
Only one vestuble, but it's quite big and serves well. It was the biggest sticking point for me when hunting for a new tent - there was the Hilleberg Katium which has two vestubles, but is extremely long.
One vestuble has been the easiest thing to adapt to - it surprised me.
There's the Nallo3 if you want more space - same length but a bit wider, though this one serves me and my wife well - more space than the old tent because it's a bit wider inside.

Now for the best bit - you say you are looking for two tents. With this tent, you get two tents...
In fine hot weather, just take the outer. The inner is attached to the outer and when you erect the tent, it all goes up easy.
Peg down the door (two corner pegs) or the narrow end of the tent - doesn't matter.
Slide the 2 poles in (colour coded - red tab to indicate which pole for which sleeve)
Pull the other end and peg that (two pegs)
Peg out the 4 guy ropes.

The inner is attached to the outer with several toggles that easily remove. So if you just want the fly, leave the inner detached, and put a spaceblanket down in the fly. And of course pack the mozzie repellent.
I wouldn't consider just the fly here in Tassie, but in Brisbane... I grew up there. Too hot.

http://www.moontrail.com is where I got mine from.
There are heaps of reviews on the net if you want to go looking.
Hope that helps.

[tasadam]

Nallo 3 wouldn't match your requirements tho, no rear vestibule and ventilation quite poor

I haven't had a problem with ventillation with my Nallo2 yet. There are some reports of condensation being an issue in this tent, but I do not know how old these reports are, and they did change the design so there is now a rear window in the tent, and an area at the back on the outer that can be unzipped to improve ventillation.
We always have the window open and have the bit at the back open as well. Then it's a matter of deciding how far to leave the main door and the inner door open. There's a flyscreen in the door which we do up.
http://www.moontrail.com/hilleberg/hill ... tures.html
http://www.moontrail.com/hilleberg/hill ... tures.html
These links came from http://www.moontrail.com/hilleberg-nallo.php
But I'm not going to push it, I want you to decide for yourself whether you think it's an option.
Happy to answer questions though.

[denncarm]

Does anyone know of a Hilleberg retailer in Australia? They do look nice but seem to be very expensive and since this is my first tent I really would like to be able to touch it before paying. Also I need to keep SWMBO happy.

Currently the WE First Arrow seems be getting a good write up, I do like the tent but it is the heaviest and most expensive on the list.

If I loose anothe Kg does that compensate for an extra 800g in the tent.

[DonQx]

no Hilleberg retailer in Oz as far as I am aware

best bet would be moontrail as linked by tasadam or hilleberg.com (the USA part) ... I've dealt with both, both are good, good also on service when there are problems

if you want to touch one, maybe best to put out a call & find someone in your area who owns one.

Hilleberg is most certainly top quality, very durable at amazingly light weight.

re. ventilation in Nallo 3 ... maybe tasadam is right and I'm confusing ventilation with condensation ... there's certainly more noticable ... ventilation ooops that was the wrong word, should be: condensation [edit 19/3/09 1.30 pm EST] ... in the N3 than any other tent we've got, but my current theory is that there's probably not much more condensation, only that it is more noticable coz of the thinner & less absorbant material used for the inner tent ... up-side of that is that tent weight remains low even in moist conditions and that counts as less weight on the back when you're walking

We've got 7 or so tents and they get quite a workout (=I'm probably spending 50-70+ nights per year in one of our tents ... anything to escape domesticity & gardening ). The most used walking tents we've got are the Sierra Leone Standard (3.7kg), MSR Hubba Hubba and Nallo 3. 1st Arrow joined the stable recently on a whim and has been used only for 2 nites so far. I've also owned & used quite a few other tents, for example Exped Venus, various Macpacs, Fairydowns, ... gear freakish addiction really ... not recommended if you want to retire early

... sooo ... I reckon there's quite a bit of a difference in ventilation options etc. between the 1stA and the N3 or N2 ... being able to drop down the whole back wall of the inner in the 1stA ... wife really likes the 1stA coz of that and coz of its' overall 'feel' ...

... but we're sticking with the SL as our 2 person all seasons tent despite the higher weight coz she loves the humongeous 2 vestibules even better, very useful for us when stuck in the snow etc., trying to share a single vestibule could be war ...

losing another kg could be the way to go!

anyway ... either tent is very good, they just have different strengths & weaknesses ... won't go wrong with any of them

[noodle_snacks]

I purchased the luxe habitat a while ago. I've spent maybe 20 nights in it, including in a hail storm and strong winds without problems.

[north-north-west]

I have a Sierra Leone Ultra II. Been great for four odd years until it suddenly decided to start leaking. Just needed a bit of seam sealant.
It's quick and easy to pitch and pack, roomy, lightweight, durable. Only needs two pegs in good weather.

Just bought a Nallo 2. Still trying to adjust to it. Great quality, but feels more cramped than the Salewa and takes longer to pitch. Needs more pegs, too. Hilleberg's service is tops, though the freight isn't cheap.

[farkewie]

HI,

I too am in Brisbane and started doing overnight walks in the past year. I started of with an Anaconda tent it was great to get started really cheap and withstood an absolute smashing in the storms on the sunny coast.

We decided we wanted more room and to go to Tassie to do the south coast track. Since then we have purchased the MSR Hubba Hubba, Not a true 4 season but we absolutely love it! There is only 1 draw back that i can think of and that it it is a little skinny but because we are a couple well we don't care.

It is not a true 4 season tent but as we live in QLD most of our walks will be here to so we had to be realistic in what we got. So we have just invested in good bags and thermals also. Plus we have winter sleeping mats.

My girlfriend also feels the cold really easy so we will see how Tassie goes.

We are doing the South Coast Track in Tassie starting Monday so I will post back and let you know how our gear went if you like. Will also let you know how she went with the cold.

Not sure if I am allowed to say so, but it is worth looking at gear in local stores. (MD's, Paddy's...) but we now buy all our gear from the US. We found somewhere that will ship all brands (except North Face) to Australia for $30US Postage it is http://e-omc.com they are great we get our orders in roughly 5 working day. there are heaps other that will ship some brands here but there postage is normally higher.

Great setup for summer

P1010194 - Copy.JPG (350.73 KiB) Viewed 11510 times

Can setup on a rock

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