Wilderness Equipment Second Arrow Vs Dart 2

[gisborne612]

Does anyone have any experience with either of these tents. I welcome any feedback re: pros and cons of both. Stability/ Weight/ Interior space etc?

[kate]

Hey,

I have a Dart - just the one person for single use. It's a great little tent, free standing and plenty of space in the top end. The Second Arrow is an awesome bomb proof one, tunnel design. The difference between these guys is that the Second Arrow is designed for alpine use, where as the Dart is great for bushwalking and an all rounder. So it comes down where you are planning to take it, and what use you want to put it too. The Dart also has the option of buying a seperate "winter" inner, to boost the rating where as the Second Arrow is fine for harsher conditions as it is. Your best bet would be to check out the WE site and check out the specs, and then the prices too.


And the Second Arrow is now only available in the Sil-nylon weighing 2.6, is much roomery, with bigger vestibules, and easy to sit up in. Dart weighs 3.15 kg in the satndard. Id have to check out the weight for sil-nylon version, but probably only 100g lighter.

Kate

[johnw]

I own a 2nd Arrow. Yes, excellent bombproof and versatile tent but with limitations on internal space. Here are a number of posts that give my opinion:

http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=511&hilit=+arrow#p3353

http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1897&hilit=+second+arrow#p15840

http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2133&hilit=+arrow#p18154

http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1544#p13880

[Macca81]

The Dart also has the option of buying a seperate "winter" inner, to boost the rating

Kate

really? i didnt know that... that would be handy, it get a little draughty at times when the temp drops...



otherwise, i love my dart! only have the single option tho, but i assume the double is just a bigger version of a good little tent

[ILUVSWTAS]

Hey,

I have a Dart - just the one person for single use.
And the Second Arrow is now only available in the Sil-nylon weighing 2.6, is much roomery, with bigger vestibules, and easy to sit up in. Dart weighs 3.15 kg in the satndard. Id have to check out the weight for sil-nylon version, but probably only 100g lighter.

Kate

Am I right in reading this? A one man tent weighing 2.6 and 3.15 kg???? Wow, Makes my minaret seem light. Makes my ATKO seem "floaty"

[bartshaz]

Hey,

I have a Dart 2 Winter, has nylon inner rather than mesh. I sleep cold and with the Dart, so far, that problem seems to have gone. Interior space, I'm only 160cm, so plenty of room for me. But I've shared with a guy who was about 6 foot and he had okay head room. I also like having a free standing tent. Min weight 2.82 kg, packed weight 3.15 kg (WE website).

Shaz

[kate]

Hi ILUVSWTAS,

You did read correctly, I on the hand did write incorrectly, the Dart 2 which is the "2.5" person weighs 3.15 and the Second Arrow weighs 2.6kg. They both are weighty but I do love them. And my mistake again the winter inner is only available for the Dart 2.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Phew.... Sounds better.

Makes it an ok combination then. I know they are a sturdy tent. I have a couple of walking buddies who have darts, but they never bring them opting for one of their other many tents.

[gisborne612]

The Dart 2 is rated as a 3 season tent, and the 2nd arrow is 4 season tent , but the dart 2 seems to have more rigidity due to the extra pole. Which tent can handle the extra loead of wind and snow?

[Macca81]

the dart can definatly handle the wind with no problems at all. i have had it set up in places where others have had to batten down the hatches and had a horrid nights sleep, and i have slept in my dart without even being able feel the tent moving and only using one peg to keep it on the ground (nearly got blown away the moment i stepped outside it tho...) have also had other tents break under the stress of the wind(8 man tent tho, as opposed to 1.5 man) while i have had no problems again.

in snow, i have no doubt that it would hold up to the weight of it, however i have had reports that it is wise to knock it from the top untill suficient snow has built up around it to take some of the load. the dart has a big flat spot right on the top that is between the 3 poles, so it is the fly taking the weight rather than the poles untill the snow has built up...

[Son of a Beach]

The Dart 2 is rated as a 3 season tent, and the 2nd arrow is 4 season tent , but the dart 2 seems to have more rigidity due to the extra pole. Which tent can handle the extra loead of wind and snow?

When it comes to being able to handle wind, rigidity is not necessarily a good thing. A flexible tunnel tent will bend in strong wind, and effectively offload the force - and in my experience, the top will hit you in the face from time to time, in a VERY strong wind. A rigid tent will need to be able to fully stand against the full force of the wind, and therefore may (some designs) be more likely to break than a flexible tunnel tent.

The main thing about snow loading, is not to have too much flat area. Most tunnel tents don't have much flat area, but this varies a lot between designs. Of course rigidity would help with strength here.

[pbakker22]

I bought the Dart 2 (siliconised) when I was in Australia 3 years ago and only got to use it on one short hiking trip there, where it performed fine in heat. I currently live in Vancouver, where I have used it a few times. The Pacific Northwest can be extremely rainy and damp (80% of the time..), and temperature drops are common when near mountains (and you're always near the mountains here..). For this last reason, I wish the Winter option had been available to me at the time as I would have gone with that over this full inner mesh version. Of course, I know that my version is not classified as a 4-season tent.

I really like this tent but have a few issues with it, mainly to do with rain protection.

Pros:
1) two vestibules
2) mesh for good ventilation (take off the outer in heat or you'll suffocate..)
3) very good rain-proof flooring (I haven't needed a footprint)
4) free-standing
5) roomy for two people

Cons:
1) setting up in the rain is a pain. The inner has to be pitched first so you'll get it wet no matter what. I've had to go through this several times and it is no fun at all, especially when someone else is pitching up an MSR Hubba Hubba in no time.
2) the fly, when open, will not keep the rain out. The angle of the canopy is such that the vestibules must remain fully closed if it is raining. Again, this is something I never considered at the time of buying, because I didn't know I'd end up moving to the Pacific Northwest. Contrast this with Exped's Mira II for example, where you can have the doors open while keeping the rain out. I think this is my main issue with the Dart 2. I don't enjoy sitting in a fully closed tent for long periods of time. It's depressing and I get paranoid.

The cons above are why I am looking for a new tent. Thus far I am considering MSR's Hubba Hubba HP and WE's Second Arrow. The Hubba Hubba HP has been discontinued for some reason and I can only find it on Australian websites (which will kill me in shipping and customs duties costs). I'm not considering the regular Hubba Hubba because the latest version (V6) seems to have poorer quality issues. Sadly, Exped tents aren't sold on the West Coast either. But I really like the look of the Second Arrow and it looks as if it would address my rain concerns and cold weather preferences (but again, shipping it to Canada will hurt when it comes to customs duties etc.). I wish WE was sold here, but it isn't. I may just take the plunge and order the Second Arrow anyway.

Hope this helped.

[Gusto]

I've used a WE 1st Arrow a fair bit and I like that alot. I've not personally used the 2nd Arrow, but I think that would be equally as good.

I recently chose to purchase an Aarn Pacer 2 over WE 2nd Arrow. The Aarn tent is a little lighter and seems to to be even more stable in wind and rain. It's hard to tell really. The Aarn tent is quite a bit smaller in terms of vestibule and entry. The Aarn tent doesn't have as many vents inside that can be opened up in warm weather. Overall though I am really happy with the Pacer tent and I'd buy it again. It also happens to be much cheaper than a 2nd Arrow, even after buying walking poles.

I wish WE was sold here, but it isn't. I may just take the plunge and order the Second Arrow anyway.

Hope this helped.

Try ringing up Wiggys, they seem to sell WE 2nd Arrows. http://wiggys.com/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=55&CFID=11238829&CFTOKEN=55649880 it's worth asking what fly fabric it is, as there are 2 versions.

WE are owned by Sea To Summit, so just about any good outdoor store, (even in the US) should be able to order it in

[Macca81]

Pbakker, i have a dart 1 and my mate has a dart 2 and we can both set them up in the rain without a wet inner. If you leave the fly attached, you can still thread the poles just fine and no water problems!

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

[bernieq]

I have a WE 1st Arrow (75d standard outer) and an MSR Hubba Hubba

The WE is used when conditions are expected to be extreme – Tassie, winter, etc. Sharing with another person, the carry weight (dry :) is 1.75kg each. I’m very happy with it - large and high vestibule is great for cooking in lousy weather, robust floor has been effective in bog conditions, very stable in gale-force wind, ample room for 2.

re wind : on top of Precipitous Bluff in seriously strong wind (ripping up over the bluff and attacking from all directions), the tent was fine with only one guyrope tied down on each side (and there are another 4 guys!)

re room : 3 is crowded (for emergency only, IMO) but 2 works well. The tent is long enough for a 6’ 4” (2m) tall person and wide enough to put your food (in storage bags) between the sleepers to prevent rodents eating their way into the tent. Spent 36 hours weathered-in at Lake Oberon – the tent was all I could ask for (well, I could have asked for a good bottle of red, but no-one listens :)

The MSR is used for ‘normal’ trips and can work for 2 but I usually go solo. For one person, it’s not light at 1.8kg but I enjoy the extra space. The 2 vestibules are a useable size and can be open while it’s raining – an important design feature in a tent. The mesh inner makes it a 3-season tent but the separate pitch of inner and outer means a dry inner in all conditions.

inside the MSR, on the AAWT near The Knobs

AAWT Knobs saddle camp.JPG (224.05 KiB) Viewed 8934 times

i have a dart 1 and my mate has a dart 2 and we can both set them up in the rain without a wet inner.

Macca81, what do you do if the outer of the Dart is wet when you pack up ? If you leave the tent hooked together, the inner gets wet. If you separate it, you risk having to set up in the rain later and get the inner wet.

[Macca81]

a quick shake gets most of the water off, then stuffed in the pack. might have a touch of a damp floor, but nothing on trying to set it up without it attached. The outer doesnt actually soak up any water, so it is just surface water, which comes off fairly easily with a shake.

[pbakker22]

Try ringing up Wiggys, they seem to sell WE 2nd Arrows. http://wiggys.com/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=55&CFID=11238829&CFTOKEN=55649880 it's worth asking what fly fabric it is, as there are 2 versions.

WE are owned by Sea To Summit, so just about any good outdoor store, (even in the US) should be able to order it in

I'll check that out, thanks Gusto. The US would probably be able to get it for me, but Canada is hopeless. They don't even sell Exped tents here. Pretty much near-total North Face domination here, some MSR.

[pbakker22]

Pbakker, i have a dart 1 and my mate has a dart 2 and we can both set them up in the rain without a wet inner. If you leave the fly attached, you can still thread the poles just fine and no water problems!

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

Thanks, I'm going to try this. Would be very cool if I can get it to work!