Macpac sleeping bags

[skog]

I am looking for a new sleeping bag that has a comfort rating around -10, with a water resistant outer. The macpac sanctuary ticks the box, but are they worth the money? or what other options are available for 4 season sleeping bag for Tassie?

I know that this rating may be overkill, but I prefer to sleep on the warmer side:)

Cheers

[Strider]

www.enlightenedequipment.com

Waterproof outers apparently aren't recommended for damp environments, as they don't allow moisture to escape from the down.

[JohnR]

I have the sea to summit talus 3. I am very impressed with its warmth, weight and pack down size. It also has the ultra dry down and any condensation does not appear to get absorbed.

With a silk inner and a down mat I rate it as a good 4 season tassie set up.

[DarrenM]

Waterproof outers apparently aren't recommended for damp environments, as they don't allow moisture to escape from the down.

Have you ever slept in damp environments for weeks on end? I've used 4 or 5 different bags over the years in very wet conditions and the best ones were Gore dry loft. You need to air out any bag after days on end and in my personal experience, the least waterproof bag I had was the worst.

My mate has the Sanctuary and has never had any problems with it. I almost bought one myself. My current bags are One Planet and Western mountaineering. They work and I'm the same skog, I'd go warmer as it increases the range of the bag.

[Strider]

No I haven't. Hence "apparently". Good feedback

[philm]

I've been looking for a similar bag and have looked at the Macpac. For a winter bag my 2 main considerations were weight and packed size plus the water resistance. The Macpac bags are relatively heavy and have a larger pack size.
So far I have narrowed down to the Mont Bindabella or Kiandra, both these bage zip right open so can be used as a quilt to regulate tempurature.
The Marmont Plasma bags are also worth while looking at (15F and 0F).

I had looked at the Talus bag but was not sure it would be warm enough in Tassie winters, otherwise looks a good option?

[skog]

Thanks for the information Philm

I thought the same DarrenM - that the waterproof outer would be better for the weather we get in Tas.

[nq111]

http://www.enlightenedequipment.com

Waterproof outers apparently aren't recommended for damp environments, as they don't allow moisture to escape from the down.

I'd agree with this, having used both types for numerous weekish long trips in Tassie. By damp I mean constant humid, condensation forming type of weather. Sleeping in puddles or a snowcave is different (but then use a bivy bag or the like).

What did make a massive difference to dampness of the sleeping bag over the week is sleeping in a vapour barrier. This also proved to me that almost all the dampness is from the person (inside out) not from the condensation falling on the shell.

It can be rare to get an opportunity to dry a sleeping bag in Tassie, unless you use the huts. More a controlled descent into sloppiness over the walk!

I think you can do better than macpac bags (and I had one 20 years ago) - better down and lighter construction in the other options mentioned.

[DarrenM]

So do people in Tassie shy away from water resistant sleeping bags? I bought a bag with synthetic down for humid wet river trips. Are we getting hung up on technicalities or are most Tassie walkers looking for these attributes? Interesting.

[Scottyk]

http://www.enlightenedequipment.com

Waterproof outers apparently aren't recommended for damp environments, as they don't allow moisture to escape from the down.

I'd agree with this, having used both types for numerous weekish long trips in Tassie. By damp I mean constant humid, condensation forming type of weather. Sleeping in puddles or a snowcave is different (but then use a bivy bag or the like).

What did make a massive difference to dampness of the sleeping bag over the week is sleeping in a vapour barrier. This also proved to me that almost all the dampness is from the person (inside out) not from the condensation falling on the shell.

It can be rare to get an opportunity to dry a sleeping bag in Tassie, unless you use the huts. More a controlled descent into sloppiness over the walk!

I think you can do better than macpac bags (and I had one 20 years ago) - better down and lighter construction in the other options mentioned.

I agree. Most of the moisture in the bag comes from the person in it. People often think the damp foot box on their bag in the morning comes from the bag rubbing on the tent wall, I think most of it comes from the inside.
In my opinion water resistant outer are good for marketing but maybe not so good at keeping water out of a sleeping bag.
I have a light weight synthetic fill quilt which means I just don't have to worry about it.

[DarrenM]

There's no doubt about moisture coming from inside a bag but after decades of sleeping in a range of different wet environments, not just snowcaves and cold conditions, the driest bags were still the more water resistant without fail.

I think if you are getting too hot in humid conditions it can be an issue. I've had some wet night's in hooped bivvies etc and the bags that kept me dry were well waterproofed. The wettest nights were in cheaper bags with questionable outers.

I'm really curious about why people are steering the OP away from water resistant bags for conditions that will be 4 seasons. Brands aside its generally poor advice IMO.

[wayno]

those macpac bags are expensive, unless theres a good special going on them, shop around, theres other brands out there offering bags as good or better that are cheaper on sale like exped, marmot, rab, mountain hardware, mountain equipment, the north face.

[Strider]

It was a comment. Not advice.

[philm]

I have a lot of Macpac gear (tents, clothes, pack etc.) but just don't think their bags are the best for 4 season walking considering their weight, packed size etc. They are nice bags if someone else is carrying them or you transport them in a car!
Nothing against the Macpac brand just don't think the bags are the best options in the market for multiday walking in damp/wet conditions.

[wayno]

yeah, 1.9 kilos for a bag with 1 kilo of down in it is pretty heavy... i've got a waterproof one with that much down thats half a kilo lighter and itsthirty year old technology

[DarrenM]

It was a comment. Not advice.

All good Strider, I was just being blunt as usual.

I've had no interest in lightweight quilts but found myself ogling some of the gear in the link.

[skog]

Thanks everyone, I am looking at one of the mount bags

I have been told I can only get 1, so I just wanted to check to see if I was on the right path or not

[stry]

I don't own a bag with a WPB shell, which doesn't mean that such shells are not a good idea. I have simply been unable to make a decision one or the other for my uses. The fact that such shells are usually a little heavier has helped me to stay in my rut.

It is interesting to note that that Western Mountaineering offer a Gore Windstopper shell on some models and have done for some time. That is the only WPB shell offered by W/M, which is food for thought.

[Aidan]

Love Macpac sleeping bags.
Never felt the need to try another brand due to always being warm and dry when matched to the conditions they were intended.
Currently own a Sanctuary XP800 and an Express 400, both in XL as well as a Snowflake.
The first two are both really too warm for WA conditions except the 400 in winter for cycle touring.
I'm someone who feels the cold and have no hesitation in reaching for one of my bags when hitting the pedals or off to NZ to walk the Heaphy Track to visit friends in Karamea.
I had a Saphire previously which saw a lot of use above the snowline and lasted many many years.
I've no inclination or temptation at this stage of trying a different bag as I feel well catered too with what I've got.
I think my single season bag is called a Snowflake which occasionally get used, is very old now but still fine for late spring early Autumn here in WA.
Macpacs marketing approach seems to cop a lot of whinging in here but if your budget is strict like mine, you buy during the specials of which there are ample.

[DarrenM]

Good reply Aidan, nice to hear some actual hands-on experience other than random hearsay.

It is interesting to note that that Western Mountaineering offer a Gore Windstopper shell on some models and have done for some time. That is the only WPB shell offered by W/M, which is food for thought.

Yep stry, I have the Western mountaineering Bison GWS which has been used for a 12 day stint in wet conditions on the Main range. It was purchased for a Greenland traverse which hasn't eventuated yet but probably wouldn't want anything less for that trip.

Of the 8 or so different bags I've owned, I had 3 others with a gore outer. 2 paddy Palin freelings and 1 Jagungal. All were brilliant in wet conditions. These types of bags are always going to have heavier construction but last longer and work better for the activities they were designed for. Light weight can work of course and there is never one tool for every application.

[nq111]

Also worth considering is better brands of standard brands of sleeping bag have a DWR treatment on their standard materials. Yes it wears off, but not as quickly as say a rain shell, plus it is easily reapplied and weighs next to nothing.

I still argue this is more than enough for most sleeping situations, as most of the moisture is coming from within. All WPB materials reduce vapour transmission compared to standard woven materials (don't let the vapour out as easily) - which is the main argument against them (along with the weight).

[Aidan]

Good reply Aidan, nice to hear some actual hands-on experience other than random hearsay.

.

It does get a bit tiresome when its the same old usual suspects doing the knocking of Macpac and when really questioned hard on specifics, it turns out that the real whinge is Macpacs marketing strategy and not their true quality at all.
Much of any other type of complaint is very heavily based on hearsay and not first hand experience is what I've found by reading "All" the threads in here with Macpac in the search engines topic.
No I have no connection to Macpac beyond using their gear over many years now (as well as some other brands)
I feel I've mostly been well catered to by the Macpac line up and equally important, the customer service and warranty.
Out of warranty repairs have also been done in a timely manner and superb quality.
No hesitation in recommending the brand.

[skog]

Thanks for the information Aidan. I know people who regularly use macpac tents that are 20 years old and still going strong.

There are so many options on the market

[DarrenM]

Good reply Aidan, nice to hear some actual hands-on experience other than random hearsay.

.

It does get a bit tiresome when its the same old usual suspects doing the knocking of Macpac and when really questioned hard on specifics, it turns out that the real whinge is Macpacs marketing strategy and not their true quality at all.
Much of any other type of complaint is very heavily based on hearsay and not first hand experience is what I've found by reading "All" the threads in here with Macpac in the search engines topic.
No I have no connection to Macpac beyond using their gear over many years now (as well as some other brands)
I feel I've mostly been well catered to by the Macpac line up and equally important, the customer service and warranty.
Out of warranty repairs have also been done in a timely manner and superb quality.
No hesitation in recommending the brand.

Bingo. I do get tired of some of the advice given on equipment from people that just read something from someone who'd heard it from somewhere else. Having an opinion is cool if you have experience on the topic as some in here do, but I find so much misinformation in threads and people go away confused about perfectly good products.

I see so many people buying gear that simply isn't what they need, and people bashing all sorts of brands for the wrong reasons. So many people end up buying a hammock when they really wanted/needed a tent, or a lightweight quilt when they needed 4 season bag etc.

We all have our favorite trusted brands but getting bogged down in ridiculous theoretical discussions doesn't answer the often simple question being asked. There's a lot of seriously experienced people here, but the answers seem to come from those that have the least experience.

Just because I like one brand doesn't mean its the only brand either. If you are a "four season person", you can make anything work but advising newcomers that reasonable quality products don't work because of some obscure thing they had read on the net is poor form.

[Scottyk]

Lots of different people on here and some may not agree with you, hence the term "forum".
This doesn't mean they are inexperienced and it doesn't mean they are wrong. Who knows what peoples experience levels are? No one.
Who is to say what's "random hearsay" and what's good advice? People are smart enough to work it out for themselves I reckon.
I like the diversity of ideas on here. Let's give everyone a fair go.

[biggbird]

I and my partner both use Express 600s and have been fairly pleased with them. Warm enough at -15 in Nepal, and though there are certainly lighter options out there, they're not exactly going to break your back. However, we did get them on 40% (or 50%) off sale, and had we not, they would have been too expensive for what you're getting.

In summary; good bag, not worth full price. But, that's not an issue, as Macpac are always having sales!

For our next bags, I'm fairly set on Feathered Friends. They seem to be generally well reviewed, well constructed, lightweight but still retaining all the required features, and to my mind not really too expensive. Of course, the downside is that they make to order, so may take longer to deliver etc, but if the bag is good enough it's worth the wait! They also have quite an extensive range to suit different conditions and requirements, something for everyone

We're (hopefully) off on a trip to Europe to do some walking next year, and I'll probably look at getting a Merlin or an Osprey. The SO wants an expedition suit... But I think that one may wait a while

[wayno]

i've used a wide variety of macpac products extensively.. I have bagged some of their products extensively and praised other products of theirs, and i stand by what i say based on my thirty years of using a wide variety of brands and types of tramping gear... sometimes i think peoples criticism is definitely valid, there was a great deal of bagging of their eVent rainwear by me and others on this forum for a variety of reasons. and this year they have stopped making eVent rainwear altogether which is interesting...
i still use their event rainwear by the way, but only around town now, just the other day i was walking to work in one of their event jackets... on the flat for five minutes on a warm morning.... and it was a heavy sweat box having to zip it up against the rain. in the mountains it was a sauna. it was a bad design for the geographical areas it was designed to be used in without physical vents and poor DWR and heavy fabric and three layers of material because of overlapping pockets in the front.. i found it was impractical for anything other than very cold stormy weather in the country it was designed to be used.
Outdoor gear isnt going to improve or maintain its quality if people dont offer a critical opinion. some opinion may be less valid than others, but on the whole I think its better to have a critical debate when people feel it's warranted. no one is saying you have to agree with the criticism or like it, I try and be objective. you have brands making a large array of products and its a very hard task to make all products with very good designs year in year out.. take macpac, they never originally made clothes, they had a narrower focus, then widened it over the years.
there are a lot of companies that make a limited range of gear and consistently make it to a high standard, and they dont expand into other product lines. their executive decision making can be more focused then as they are spending all their time focused on a smaller range of products. smaller companies the designers have more executive power, often the designers are the company owners they don't have their technical design decisions over ruled by someone higher up the chain who is more removed from the design...
sure there are drawbacks to small companies as well. but these are some examples of how companies can differ and how they can expose themselves to making inferior products due to the drawbacks of the way they operate.

[DarrenM]

Lots of different people on here and some may not agree with you, hence the term "forum".
This doesn't mean they are inexperienced and it doesn't mean they are wrong. Who knows what peoples experience levels are? No one.
Who is to say what's "random hearsay" and what's good advice? People are smart enough to work it out for themselves I reckon.
I like the diversity of ideas on here. Let's give everyone a fair go.

Scottyk, I agree for the most part and my comments weren't directed at you the info you gave but don't agree about random hearsey and people working it out for themselves. A lot of new comers read the equipment threads to educate themselves myself included, but know from experience that some answers need clarification and when you probe for more info quite often there is no basis for the advice given in the context of the actual topic question.
People may not like an answer or where who it comes from but it needs to be unbiased and informed to be considered useful IMO.

This particular thread isn't an outstanding example what I'm talking about as it has some very good valid info, but generally speaking its rather common on this forum compared to others I frequent. People shouldn't have to do so much guessing when asking for very simple and specific info. Some replies are just complete tangents into technical *&^%$#! that is fine for the geeks among us, but next to useless and downright confusing for the newcomer. As I said, lots of good info in this thread and its a broader problem I see often here but not in other tech threads on various forums.

Nice reply too Wayno.

[philm]

I also have extensive experience with Macpac products. Most of their gear I love - packs and tents particularly. However I just don't think that for the weight and pack size to warmth requirement (4 season) that their bags are the best in the market. Yes on sale the bags are good value but I would prefer to pay a little more for a lighter bag with the same warmth.

Not bagging Macpac products but lets be truthful and call it what it is - the bags are not the best for lightweight multiday trekking in alpine conditions.

The aim of this forum is to enable people to express their opinions and not control what others say so lets keep it that way.

[DarrenM]

Philm, again you were not the target and good info.

This has nothing to do with Macpac. Nobody is controlling what others say but after seeing some deadset weird replies on a regular basis in regards to equipment, I find it hard to bother reading here. I know a few people that are seriously experienced that refuse to read the advice here and have stopped reading because the advice is often completely incorrect.

Opinions I can swallow but when they are given without the experience, it's a joke. If people want to enter an equipment thread and give advice, think before posting if you want any credibility whatsoever. I like these forums and probably need to stay out of the equipment threads as some, not all, are simply misleading.

Anyway, it's food for thought as debate should improve credibility.