nz nelson lakes west sabine bridge down.

[wayno]

DOC warning bothers water taxi operator

http://www.stuff.co.nz/marlborough-expr ... i-operator

A Lake Rotoroa water taxi owner says the Conservation Department is discouraging people from walking a popular Nelson Lakes track because of a damaged bridge, which is impacting on her business.

A bridge over the West Sabine river, on the Travers-Sabine route, was hit by flooding in early December.

DOC say they have advised trampers of the damaged bridge so trampers can make informed decisions about crossing a major river.

However, Kerry Simpson, owner of Rotoroa water taxi, said Conservation Department staff were needlessly scaring people off walking the track by not giving them all the available information about the river crossing.

"We have information from trampers coming off the track all the time, saying they have had no problems crossing the river. Even after heavy rains, they've managed fine."

Numbers walking the track over Christmas were lower than usual, with five cancellations in a row causing the business to suffer, she said.

"It's been unbelievably slow over Christmas but starting to pick up again. I think the weather has put people off coming to the park, but it is really really disappointing that DOC haven't done anything to get through the peak season."

Nelson Lakes DOC programme manager for visitor and historic assets Greg Carter understood the frustrations of businesses that had a short visitor window of October to April, but said putting in a new bridge took time.

"It's a completely new engineering project, a 41-metre bridge worth $70,000 to $100,000."

Work on the new bridge should begin in April, pending consent from Tasman District Council.

Mr Carter said DOC did not advise trampers where they should or should not go.

"I refute that we are scaring people away from walking the track," he said. "What we are saying is the bridge is no longer there and they need to be confident crossing a major river that rises very quickly with rain."

"We can't say `go on, you'll be fine'. People have been walking for seven hours when they get there, they're tired and sometimes people do silly things."

Trampers use water taxis at various points along the 80km tramp.

Peter Kemp, owner of Nelson Lakes Shuttles, has put photos on his website of trampers crossing the river using part of the damaged bridge and a fallen log.

He noticed a drop in visitor numbers this year and blamed it on the recession and people choosing not to walk the track. He recommended people stuck together to cross the river.

Mr Carter said numbers visiting the park had been good this year, but more people were camping instead of tramping.

Ad Feedback "People are spending time in the front country as opposed to the back country, partly because the Sabine bridge is out," he said. "Since bookings opened in November we've had 3358 visitors to the campgrounds and 955 to Angelus hut."

[Rob A]

Back up a pace or two.
You have had a couple of natural disasters too and those sorts of events and the ensuing publicity always affects international tourist trade.
DOCs cant not warn trampers. The bridge was close to the hut and crossing a stream you cant always wade across.
The remains of the bridge get you across the first part of the river a bit further upstream.
In good weather its one thing to cross the temporary log, but in bad weather, at the end of a days walk, if you take a drop you will be in trouble.
The other half went through the Lakes (again) in December which is when her photo came from.

[wayno]

could have fooled me disasters affect trade, never seen so many aussies on the tracks in nz before.....
DOC
I suppose the taxi boat owners are biased, sounds a bit like "she'll be right" they need to make money now so downplay the risk. in genuinely heavy rain i doubt anyone would cross without a bridge , it was heavy rain that took out the bridge in the first place....
it's a long way to walk to find you can't get across the river and have to turn around.... if it was a great walk they'd have replaced the bridge a lot quicker. mind you it probably would have been a better bridge to start with and woule have been less likely to get taken out. doc are more assertive on track maintenance on those walk, everything else has to wait for the resources.

[Rob A]

Probably. Dont know about this season but in recent I had heard say the nelson lakes have been advertised pretty heavily over Israel and Europe.
I cant remember the bridge specifically and without going through old boxes ... but the replacement will have to carry a fair span. Not something they can drag out of store.
Because it isnt really back country, its more happy camper trails up to Blue Lake, specially if you take the lake boat ride, and I reckon DOCs are understandably concerned about any sort of mixed weather, mixed experience getting into trouble on the log.
I dont think you can really cross without a bridge, so I think that log the only place available to cross now. You wont bounce if you take the drop. It "looks" easy in the photo.

[wayno]

its up the western sabine, quite a way up, as far south as the traverse saddle, its not desperately wide or deep there.. it is crossable if there isnt heavy rain.
strange they should advertise a apecific area like nelson lakes, doesnt have the hut capacities to take large no's of trampers compares to some other areas..

http://www.nelsonlakesshuttles.co.nz/we ... ossing.htm

The West Sabine Bridge is down. Don't listen to the rumours or incorrect advice that The Travers Sabine Track is closed. The Travers Sabine Track Is Open. The West Sabine River can be crossed in normal flows. If it rains hard the river will come up fast and go down just as quick when it stops raining. If you have good back country skills This track can be done by most people. River crossings should be done with others or with caution.There will be others in the West Sabine Hut. Who with the good Kiwi back country spirit. Will be very happy to help you across or give good judgement of crossing. If you are out of your comfort zone. Back off until others arrive to help you. We used to cross rivers long before bridges. Plenty of our passengers are getting across the Sabine River with little or no trouble. Part of the bridge is still standing and will get you to a island in the middle of the river. From the island there's a large tree across the last part of the river to get you to the far bank.

The photos below were taken December 2011. The river is up slightly by snow melt. Other trampers have been crossing the river on foot. You just need to remember the 3 c's Caution, Caution Caution. and of course work as a team.

[sef]

Last time I passed through West Sabine Hut, an elderly Austrian yacht captain with no stove or sleeping bag was in residence. Been there for a couple of days apparently. According to a German girl, he claimed to be 'building strength' to do the Travers Saddle by eating two lettuces per day.

It's a popular area for those with limited experience and you really can't blame DOC for the caution. Any reasonable person would have no problems, but they aren't all reasonable people.

[wayno]

would someone like the austrian really pay attention to any warnings? DOC can be as cautious as they want in their advise . you'll always get people who ignore it.
thre are various cases with different warnings where people dont believe doc warning because of how causious they are,, on the routeburn in spring they usuaually operate a helicopter aroudn the avalanche prone regions and tell people they HAVE to take the helicopter. using the HAVE TO words just makes some people suspicious, then people just end up ignoring doc and walking through anyway, which makes a mockery of doc by saying its too dangerous to walk.
theres always people who don't like it when they arent given options,
in my job i have to advise people and the number one rule is give people the options because often just telling them what they have to do puts them off completely like you're taking over all the control and a lot of people don't like that stance for various reasons, it all get a bit psychological aparently....
experienced people can make up their own minds if they are given the facts and they don't like it when someone else makes up their mind for them.
shuttle companies on the tongariro crossing will tell people the mountain is closed if the forecast is bad... hte mountain is pretty much never actually closed at all. it's more probaably about reducing their liability and headaches by letting inexperienced people go in bad weather on an exposed alpine trip... but having one blanket statement for everyone denies a lot of experienecd people the chance to go if they believe the mountain is closed....
who's fault is it if people can't take the correct responsibility for themselves?
doc could say the sabine crossing is for those experienced in river crossings or some such statement or that that its crossable in normal river flow but care needs to be taken and not to attempt it in heavy rain. people see a good forecast and they know they will be pretty safe.... only the most inexperienced might shy away.

[bernieq]

As wayno says, at the West Sabine hut, the Sabine can be easily crossed in low-flow conditions. In other conditions, it would involve moderate to very high risk.

Here's a pic (Apr 2011) of the bridge (just downstream of the hut) - not high above the river but it would have been tremendous flow to wash it away.

The bridge across the Sabine River, downstream of the West Sabine Hut (before being washed away!)

I'm a great believer in people taking responsibility for their own actions so I'd argue that DOC should advise trampers that the bridge is down and a river crossing is required (and, if appropriate, advise of adverse weather conditions). Unfortunately, SAR suffer the consequences of people underestimating conditions and overestimating their experience.

[bernieq]

Better late than never ... for an update : the bridge has been replaced (reopened Feb 2013) and is now just upstream of the West Sabine hut. The hut, too, has had a bit of an upgrade with new, relocated toilets and, in the hut, some internal ss benching and plumbing.

the very new West Sabine bridge - Feb 2013