NZ Dept of Conservation to stop using paper intention sheets

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NZ Dept of Conservation to stop using paper intention sheets

Postby wayno » Mon 05 Dec, 2011 12:55 pm

NZ Dept of Conservation to stop using paper Trip intention sheets.
you'll no longer be able to turn up to DOC visitor centres to record your trip intentions

so bear in mind if you're used to making your mind up or changing your trip intentions at the last minute, DOC arent going to record those intentions
also bear in mind, it can be hard to find a free internet connection near DOC visitor centres to go online nad record your intentions at the last minute..

Instead of DOC's paper intention system, people heading into the mountains are expcted to file intentions as per the following site.

http://www.adventuresmart.org.nz/
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Re: NZ Dept of Conservation to stop using paper intention sh

Postby whynotwalk » Tue 06 Dec, 2011 4:03 pm

My contact in DOC confirmed this is the way they are heading. He says the new system puts the primary responsibility back on the user to nominate a person who would alert the police when the walker becomes overdue.

As he explained "we (DOC) spend an incredible amount of time checking back on 'overdue' persons who, virtually 99.9% of the time, have simply failed to checkout." Add to this police time spent searching when they're "generally later found in a cafe somewhere in NZ."

In times of shrinking budgets, you'd have to sympathise with this approach,

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Re: NZ Dept of Conservation to stop using paper intention sh

Postby wayno » Wed 07 Dec, 2011 5:37 pm

problem is about two thirds of walkers in doc parks are from overseas, they rock up and make up their minds at the last minute where they are going, doc dont have internet kiosks at their visitor centres, let alone cell phone coverage in some areas without the paper intention sheets that a lot of people expect to be there they will just head into the wilderness leaving little or no information with anyone about their intentions, if they go missing and are lucky that someone reports them missing there is far less likelihood anyone will know where they are, the govt will have to fork out extra money for larger searches to find these people, its not doc's fault they are under resourced but there is a bigger problem looming as a result of their desire to redirect their resources elsewhere. often those intention sheets can avert searches when people do sign out but fail to contact anyone else, someone raises the alarm and the intention sheet shows theres no need for a search because they have left the park... the issue cuts both ways theres a lot more at softrock.co.nz by a head SAR member at arthurs pass
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Re: NZ Dept of Conservation to stop using paper intention sh

Postby wayno » Wed 07 Dec, 2011 5:53 pm

the national govt cut docs budget, which will be a factor in doc abandoning recording trip intentions
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politic ... r-DOC-cuts
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Re: NZ Dept of Conservation to stop using paper intention sh

Postby whynotwalk » Thu 08 Dec, 2011 8:48 am

I believe they will have computers available free of charge in some visitor centres - and the paper system will continue until the end of the coming season.
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Re: NZ Dept of Conservation to stop using paper intention sh

Postby wayno » Mon 19 Dec, 2011 5:33 am

a lot of tourists make up their mind on their intentions at the last minute, a fair percentage head for the hills outside of doc office hours and dont have internet access
IN those cases there will be no intentions posted, there will be situations where there are some very expensive searches launched due to lack of information as to where lost people are. or worse no search will be launched because no one has any idea which part of the country they have gone to....
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Re: NZ Dept of Conservation to stop using paper intention sh

Postby Rob A » Mon 19 Dec, 2011 9:00 am

Other than I think it is a particularly bad move, Id rather keep what I think to myself.
Face to face submit intentions also averts a number of potential disasters, simply by encouraging people regardless of experience, to talk to, or ask someone local about their walk.
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Re: NZ Dept of Conservation to stop using paper intention sh

Postby wayno » Mon 19 Dec, 2011 9:12 am

problem is, two thirds of people heading into the hills in nz on doc land are overseas tourists. they are the ones who won't be leaving intentions, trampers flock to nz in massive no's, they will be the ones leat likely to record intentions when previously they would have logged whtem on paper 24 . 7 at doc offices, without a system that effetively records peoples intentions, there will be more fatalities.
somewhere down the line there might be an inquiry as to why there has been an increase in the no of fatalities from people going missing and an increase in the cost of SAR, and someone might realise that the revocation of intention forms had a role to play, then maybe DOC will get some of the funding back they deserve to stop senseless deaths....
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Re: NZ Dept of Conservation to stop using paper intention sh

Postby Rob A » Mon 19 Dec, 2011 9:49 am

Agree with you entirely.
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Re: NZ Dept of Conservation to stop using paper intention sh

Postby izogi » Sun 08 Jan, 2012 10:19 am

Hi --- I just noticed you lot are commenting about this across the ditch, too. Guess I'm a bit late. Nobody's yet linked to Graeme Kates' website at http://www.softrock.co.nz/mg/index.php?page=217 , so I'll throw that link into the mix. Graeme Kates is the former DoC Visitor Centre employee (from Arthurs Pass) and former chairperson of LandSAR in that area (he resigned from both positions in protest), who's been kicking up the stink about the changes. I don't think he's so concerned about the change itself as with the way it's being done. I tend to agree with him, and we got another little discussion going on my blog at http://www.windy.gen.nz/?p=619

In short, DoC has only been managing intentions in this specific way in two places, being the Arthurs Pass and Mt Cook visitors' centres. Everywhere else in NZ, people have always been responsible for themselves and their own safety, but in these two places the DoC staff had taken on a role of taking people's intention sheets, and then acting on it if people didn't sign out. (DoC reckons this is inconsistent with everywhere else, and that it's confusing to tourists when sometimes they're nearly forced to leave intentions and other times DoC staff don't want to take them at all.) Also (at present) it's only Arthurs Pass where the system's being stopped---Graeme reckons that's because the Mt Cook staff had a more forceful local manager to stand up for the system. Despite not taking intentions, staff will still be around to talk to people about plans when visiting the area, but they won't be taking intentions in any way that obliges them to do anything if they never hear from the person again. It'll be up to people to find their own trusted contact person and keep that person informed.

Personally I think it's perfectly fine that DoC wants to get out of the business of being responsible for other people. The NZ system has always been built on a premise that the government is a caretaker for public land, and not a gatekeeper, that anyone can enter and exit at their will and be responsible for themselves as long as they follow the rules of leaving the place as they found it. These two instances of DoC taking responsibility for people's back-country safety is a weird aberration. As wayno pointed out, tourism's complicated that in recent years because suddenly there are large numbers of international visitors who expect something different. Graeme's biggest point (I think) is the way that it's happening, considering about two thirds of the visitors to the Arthurs Pass visitor centre are international tourists. It's effectively just being pulled with nothing to replace it, and the staff on the ground were barely consulted.

The http://www.adventuresmart.org.nz/ website which DoC's championing is nothing more than an English language information website that tries to help people structure their intentions whether it's by filling out a paper form to give to someone, entering details into a web form that gets emailed to a person they nominate, or hopping over to a social trip organisation website like http://www.roughplan.com/ which can be configured (if they user knows what they're doing) to send a panic notice to a person they nominate if they haven't checked in. It does nothing to verify that a person's provided useful information in their intentions, or that their nominated contact person will have a clue what they're doing, if they're doing it at all, or even if they're in the same time zone. It's a very passive way of interacting with a substantial number of people who will often have no useful trustworthy people with whom they can actually leave intentions, irrespective of how they do it, and rely on that person to raise an alarm at an appropriate time.

I think it'd work fine if there were a replacement service set up as a replacement over a long enough time for all the guidebooks to be updated, specifically for taking intentions from people who didn't have their own reliable trusted person, and maybe for a nominal fee if that's really a problem, and then acting appropriately if the person didn't check in. There will be other options, too, but the problem is more about the way this has all been done.
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Re: NZ Dept of Conservation to stop using paper intention sh

Postby roysta » Fri 20 Jan, 2012 3:31 pm

You'll find Intention sheets are being dealt with in detail by DOC staff in other places besides the two mentioned.
One that comes immediately to mind is Makarora between Wanaka and Haast.
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