Frameless pack recommendations

A place to chat about gear and the philosphy of ultralight. Ultralight bushwalking or backpacking focuses on carrying the lightest and simplest kit. There is still a good focus on safety and skill.
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Ultralight Bushwalking/backpacking is about more than just gear lists. Ultralight walkers carefully consider gear based on the environment they are entering, the weather forecast, their own skill, other people in the group. Gear and systems are tested and tweaked.
If you are new to this area then welcome - Please remember that although the same ultralight philosophy can be used in all environments that the specific gear and skill required will vary greatly. It is very dangerous to assume that you can just copy someone else's gear list, but you are encouraged to ask questions, learn and start reducing the pack weight and enjoying the freedom that comes.

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Base pack backpacking the mass of the backpack and the gear inside - not including consumables such as food, water and fuel
light backpacking base weight less than 9.1kg
ultralight backpacking base weight less than 4.5kg
super-ultralight backpacking base weight less than 2.3kg
extreme-ultralight backpacking base weight less than 1.4kg

Frameless pack recommendations

Postby Petew » Thu 05 Sep, 2019 5:22 pm

Hi,

Looking at trying out a UL frameless pack setup for overnighters with a UL kit.

Been looking at things like zpacks Nero, Waymark Thru packs, MLD Burn etc.

Anyone got any recommendations or experiences with these kind of packs?

Not fixed on any particular fabric.

I do use DCF pods which should help with the structure to a degree and water resistance.

Cheers,

Pete
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Re: Frameless pack recommendations

Postby crollsurf » Thu 05 Sep, 2019 8:10 pm

You already know I'm going to say the TW Sonder :) You do just end up bumping into scrub from time to time in Oz and that's why it's the best UL pack, plus your money stays in Australia.

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Re: Frameless pack recommendations

Postby Petew » Thu 05 Sep, 2019 8:20 pm

You loving yours? You get it in gridstop or ls07?

I've grown accustomed to hip belt pouches, you think the padded zpacks ones would work? I prefer the zip to run across the top.

Cheers,

Pete
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Re: Frameless pack recommendations

Postby Lamont » Thu 05 Sep, 2019 8:45 pm

VX42 and Cordura 500 Sonder. Stealfy.
Never carried or used the detachable hip belt, nor bag padding-hadn't attached the shoulder pockets yet. Comfy.
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Re: Frameless pack recommendations

Postby crollsurf » Thu 05 Sep, 2019 9:02 pm

Nice Lamont, was that a custom or a previous incarnation?

Petew, hip pockets and frameless don't always go together well, mainly because you're travelling light. I use the side pockets for water and carry energy bars, phone etc in my pant pockets.

Although having said that, on longer walks I got a Granite Gear Crown 60L that is kind of frameless and does have hip pockets that I like using.

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Re: Frameless pack recommendations

Postby Lamont » Thu 05 Sep, 2019 9:09 pm

crollsurf wrote:Nice Lamont, was that a custom or a previous incarnation?

Petew, hip pockets and frameless don't always go together well, mainly because you're travelling light. I use the side pockets for water and carry energy bars, phone etc in my pant pockets.

Although having said that, on longer walks I got a Granite Gear Crown 60L that is kind of frameless and does have hip pockets that I like using.

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Custom. Front and back panel 2 cms wider than standard 36 Sonder. My Duplex is sitting inside on top. Will stand upright for packing. About 580 gms. My Inreach is seen behind the bottle and scroggin is behind the other bottle. No need for hip nelt pockets which I like.
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Re: Frameless pack recommendations

Postby Zapruda » Thu 05 Sep, 2019 10:03 pm

I am very happy with my Palante V2. Of all the frameless packs I’ve owned this takes the cake. Its the DCF version and has been a surprisingly durable little scrub pack and going on a year of use now and still looking good. The bottom pocket needs to be used to be appreciated.

But if you want to keep it local I can’t fault Wilderness Threadworks quality. One of the best in the game and top notch customer service.
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Re: Frameless pack recommendations

Postby rowdy » Fri 06 Sep, 2019 9:06 am

I have a WT Sonder and really like it. I like to hike with a hipbelt pocket so Dan made a couple for me that are removable if I don't want them for a particular trip. Most of the time I only use one but I find it really good.
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Re: Frameless pack recommendations

Postby Petew » Fri 06 Sep, 2019 10:08 am

Rowdy,

Do your hip belt pockets go on to the webbing hip belt or do you have a padded hip belt?
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Re: Frameless pack recommendations

Postby rowdy » Fri 06 Sep, 2019 10:34 am

They go on the webbing belt, it's just the standard Sonder removable belt.

At first I found them to be too far back on my hip but Dan was able to solve that issue for me. He is very approachable and very accommodating of custom requests.
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Re: Frameless pack recommendations

Postby Tino B » Fri 06 Sep, 2019 11:07 am

I have an older model MLB Burn (https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/burn-38l/) that I picked up cheaply from the US Backpacking Light gear swap forum. It doesn't have the padded hip belt of the newer models and it doesn't have the roll top closure. I use the Burn for up to 3 night trips and it works very well. More than 3 nights or alpine touring, I use an HMG Southwest in black DCH 150 (https://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/c ... -southwest) - love this pack.

I've made a few minor changes to the MLD Burn. It has plastic o rings on cross grain tabs around the pack sides and bottom that are there for shock cord compression straps that I have used to thread a lattice of shock cord on the back panel and attached a mini cord lock. I slide an offcut of blue CCF pad under the shock cord to form a back panel. The pad stops anything inside the pack poking you in the back, makes the pack very comfortable and adds a little structure to the pack. The CCF pad also doubles as a sit pad and easily slides in and out from the shock cord.

I made load lifters by attaching cord loops to the top Y compression strap and running cord and linelocs to D's on the shoulder straps - I love load lifters even when carrying a light load because it makes the pack hug your back.

Final mod was to create a roll top by attaching a male and female buckle to the O rings near the side of the rear mesh pocket - the newer models have the option for a dry bag style closure or a roll top, so you wouldn't need to do this.

I usually pack my quilt in the bottom, then food bag, clothes bag, utility gear, cook kit and then shove my MLD Trailstar in the top to fill spaces. Once used to packing it, it's amazing how much structure the pack has and it will usually stand up on its own. On day 2 of an overnight trip, once food is eaten and I'm not carrying much water, I don't use the hip belt. It' so comfortable to carry that it's like I don't have a pack.
I've taken the pack off trail a fair bit and it's stood up to rough treatment really well.

The downside would be waiting up to 12 weeks to have one made - I'd think seriously about what mods you would need and make a custom order. With the dollar so low, the Sonder seems like a good alternative and would support the local economy.
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Re: Frameless pack recommendations

Postby Petew » Fri 06 Sep, 2019 11:16 am

Yeah, I'm edging towards the sonder. Dan can do it in a combo of black gridstop (side pockets, base, back panel) and ls 21 so looks like a goer. Ages ago I had an original Macpac persuit, zip top, similar size, internal foam sleeve for the back, was a great pack.
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Re: Frameless pack recommendations

Postby melinda » Sat 07 Sep, 2019 4:27 pm

Heh Pete,
I've been using frameless UL packs for years and have had many packs from companies like ULA, Six Moon Design, Golite etc.
My current favorite is the Gossamer Gear Kumo which I've been using for about 3 years now and had out on many trips of up to 5 days. (Summer gear)
https://www.gossamergear.com/collection ... t-backpack

Gossamer Gear Kumo (292x327).jpg
Gossamer Gear Kumo (292x327).jpg (10.2 KiB) Viewed 27876 times

That 'over the top closure system with zippered pocket' is really useful for things like cameras, gps and compression bandages.
Any of these LW materials degrade with UV exposure so you do have to have to replace them with time.
One of the things I do with these packs is sew on a layer of gridstop robic (like the material ULA uses on their packs) to the bottom of the pack, this prolongs longevity of pack.
Also have a GG Mariposa for longer/winter trips.
So much nice LW gear about these days :)
'Life is either a daring adventure or nothing'
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Re: Frameless pack recommendations

Postby Stew63 » Sat 07 Sep, 2019 8:55 pm

I would like to recommend KS UL backpacks - custom made in Japan by Frenchman Laurent Barikosky. I've had nothing but outstanding and personable service from Laurent in all my dealings and he always replies with an hour or so to my emails. So many customisable choices in UL designs, UL fabric types, colours and styles. Both KS packs I have purchased I fully customised with his help and great advice.
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Re: Frameless pack recommendations

Postby Petew » Tue 10 Sep, 2019 6:23 am

I decided to go for a Sonder in the end in a combo of black gridstop and ls21. Dan has been super helpful.
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Re: Frameless pack recommendations

Postby Petew » Tue 10 Sep, 2019 7:04 am

Lamont,

Just wondering why you went 2cm wider than std width? Was it to fit a particular bit of gear?
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Re: Frameless pack recommendations

Postby Lamont » Tue 10 Sep, 2019 10:43 am

Petew wrote:Lamont,

Just wondering why you went 2cm wider than std width? Was it to fit a particular bit of gear?

A couple or reasons. The first I referred to above-my Duplex is sitting at the top horizontal. The Duplex DCF is a bit of a chunky monkey but it sits in there without being jammed and I wanted to ensure I would have space (no matter the shelter) and I wanted it to be horizontal as often as I could manage it. A smaller shelter than the Duplex and I have so much room in there.
The second is I can pack it (for 2 days above, but 3-4 also works with only a little extra height for food) and it doesn't go (much) above the shoulder height so it's not sitting behind my head. Avoids getting jammed/snagged under fallen logs. That gives me the willies. When I duck move I like the sack to shadow me. This seems to do that so far. Also a long high sack plays havoc with my full brim hat.
I reckon narrow packs don't always 'fit' the wearer's body dimensions. I am reasonably broad at the hips and shoulders and my Sonder still sits well behind me out of the way. I reckon it's width for me is spot on. In fact all the dimensions are.
Cheers G
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Re: Frameless pack recommendations

Postby Petew » Tue 10 Sep, 2019 1:25 pm

Cool, makes sense. I would love a duplex but alas more than my wallet can bear.....
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