Light and compact first aid kit

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Light and compact first aid kit

Postby gbagua » Wed 19 Dec, 2018 3:58 pm

I need one I can purchase in store. pharmacy, St John Ambulance?

Which includes snake bite treatment (just in case).

Any recommendations?

Cheers. ;)
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby Zapruda » Wed 19 Dec, 2018 4:46 pm

I would piece one together that suits your specific trip and needs. My general kit contains snake bite bandage, bandaids, some leukotape, ibuprofen and anti-histamine. Most people have the makings of a first aid kit in their homes. It will weigh less and be cheaper as well!

The problem with store bought first aid kits is that they contain a bunch of stuff people generally don’t know how to use or need.

Most chemists sell proper snake bandages now. Know how to use it before you go.

Good luck.
Last edited by Zapruda on Wed 19 Dec, 2018 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby Mark F » Wed 19 Dec, 2018 4:46 pm

There is virtually nothing that is easily obtainable in the way of useful and light first aid kits especially with something useful for snake bite. When constructing a kit you need to consider the length of trip you do, whether you have, a plb or spot etc, the skills to use what is in the kit (do a 1st aid course) your risk appetite.

Long, remote trips need a bit more than short local trips. Remember that you are not a doctor so don't try to carry a operating theatre - hopefully you have a plb etc and will use it for anything major.

Only carry what you need - don't try to be the local pharmacy for all and sundry unless you are leading the walk and have total newbys along. In this case you really should have done a first aid course.

Have a read though this thread http://www.bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27959&p=351852&hilit=first+aid+kit#p351736. You will realise that many of us have a relatively minimal approach while others a bit belt and braces. No right or wrong - just different levels of risk acceptance. I would take particular note of comments by andrewa and gpsguided as they are medicos.

My suggestion is to go to the chemists and buy a few bits. I am relatively minimal and carry some fabric dressing strip that can be cut to length, a couple of sterile pads, a few antiseptic wipes plus a 100mm stretch crepe bandage which I will replace with a setopress or similar as they are better for snake bite. Meds - whatever you use in the way of analgesics, perhaps some anti diarrhea pills and if you have any allergies some antihistamines. You will find that no first aid kits contain drugs even aspirins. This is because of the risks (and liability) when giving drugs to people when you don't know their medical history and possible reactions.
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby Warin » Wed 19 Dec, 2018 5:24 pm

The lightest first aid kit is the one you have in your head.
A first aid course is worth the money. It should teach you what you need in your first aid kit.
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby Neo » Wed 19 Dec, 2018 9:35 pm

The bandages with indicator squares on them are really good, their shape when stretched shows when you have attained a suitable pressure.
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby johnw » Wed 19 Dec, 2018 10:37 pm

Warin wrote:A first aid course is worth the money. It should teach you what you need in your first aid kit.

They are and do, with some considerations. Years ago I completed the remote area first aid certificate with St John. It was a 4 day course back then and taught a lot of improvisation techniques using what you already (likely) would be carrying - clothing etc, or could probably find. The only problem is that the knowledge diminishes over time, I struggle now to remember much of it, though I do occasionally re-read the little field manual that they handed out - which I usually carry in my pack. Re-doing a course every so many years is probably best if you can manage it. Carrying a snake bite bandage, or similar elasticised bandage, is a good idea. A triangular bandage and space blanket can be other useful items that don't have much weight or volume.
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby Gadgetgeek » Thu 20 Dec, 2018 8:13 am

For straight up, off the shelf quality, I think the survival.net.au are probably the best off the shelf ones. the bags are a little heavy, but that is the price paid for organization. Their new snakebite bandages are bigger, and should be better (never used one yet, hope to keep it that way) I bit the bullet and bought one of their package deals last year, two car kits, a home kit and a walking kit. I have all my walking and camping stuff on my own, and work provided kit for that sort of thing, but I wanted a kit for each car, and I wanted it to be more than just a ziplock bag of bandaids. I also wanted a grab-and-go for the apartment in case we hear screaming from the street. And the walking kit is handy for any time my wife and her friends want to do one of the local trails for a workout. She's plenty qualified, but a kit is a kit. Its not ideal, and its not the best system, but they don't get left behind, they are easy to re-stock, and yes there is some redundant stuff in them, but over time I'll adapt them. It all depends on how you do things at home as well, we tend to be a little more self sufficient, so I've got stuff like op-site and steri-strips and the like at home anyway.

The SOL kits are more north american based, and while they are also decent, I think you pay a premium for branding, when you can easily get all that stuff from a reasonably big chemist. Plus you still need that snakebite bandage.

For MYOG or DIY kits, keep in mind that someone may need to use it on you, so having it clearly marked is ideal. Nothing like having someone have to open every drybag in your pack to find what they need. Also having any medical history that might be relevant in your kit could help someone make the right choices. And having done first aid a couple times in less than ideal situations, having even a little organization will help you if things get nuts. Even if its just a series of snaplock snack bags, so opening the kit in wind and rain doesn't ruin everything.
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby slparker » Thu 20 Dec, 2018 10:06 am

Neo wrote:The bandages with indicator squares on them are really good, their shape when stretched shows when you have attained a suitable pressure.

The setopress bandage is not designed for treatment of snakebite although it is excellent for it.
To develop the pressure required to inhibit lymphatic flow, and thus the movement of venom, you have to exceed the pressure attained by following the instructions in the bandage pack.
I addressed this in a snakebite thread a while ago.
The reference first aid groups in australia (resus.org and St Johns) describe the technique of Pressure Immobilisation using an elasticised bandage being firmly applied - the setopress is a suitable bandage but apply it tighter than the printer squares suggest.
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby gbagua » Thu 20 Dec, 2018 11:33 am

Thanks for our input guys. ;)

I never carry one but this time I (and the other 2 members in our party) will carry a FAK because we are hiking
in a remote area...and just in case.

Will go to the Pharmacy tomorrow and get the stuff some of you mentioned and 'chuck' it in a zip log bag.

-Snakebite bandage/100mm stretch crepe bandage
-Fabric dressing strips
-A pair of scissors
-Sterile pads
-Antiseptic wipes
-Betadine antiseptic

Cheers!
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby Huntsman247 » Thu 20 Dec, 2018 11:58 am

I got tired of replacing my ziplock bag after every couple trips and be more confident that water wouldn't seep into my first aid stuff so I splurged on this:

http://www.exped.com/international/en/p ... irst-aid-s

Pretty happy with it, fits all the stuff i need and looks way more profesh.
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby Mark F » Thu 20 Dec, 2018 12:46 pm

A useful tip for meds in foil strips is to cover the top of the strip with sticky tape. It prevents tablets breaking out when not needed.
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby wildwanderer » Thu 20 Dec, 2018 1:26 pm

gbagua wrote:Thanks for our input guys. ;)

I never carry one but this time I (and the other 2 members in our party) will carry a FAK because we are hiking
in a remote area...and just in case.

Will go to the Pharmacy tomorrow and get the stuff some of you mentioned and 'chuck' it in a zip log bag.

-Snakebite bandage/100mm stretch crepe bandage
-Fabric dressing strips
-A pair of scissors
-Sterile pads
-Antiseptic wipes
-Betadine antiseptic

Cheers!


Don't forget the meds.
- pain relief/anti inflammatory
- anti diarrhoea (longer trip)
- water purification tabs
- cold and flu (if a longer trip)
- also BIC lighter/firestarters

Imho the meds will provide more relief and enable self evac much more easily than anything else in the first aid kit.

Also make sure you get a specialist snake bite bandage like 'setopress' which has the triangle guide for correct compression pressure.
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby Neo » Thu 20 Dec, 2018 2:54 pm

I use a 1lt dry bag for my repair/mini first aid. Individual ziplocks inside last a fair while.

Bandaids
Non-stick dressings
Alcohol wipes
Bandage for compression x2
Plastic mirror (for something in the eye)
Tiny bandage

Also have a 25ml Nalgene of Micropur, very small sharpening stone, use same pocket knife for food prep & cutting.
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby gbagua » Thu 20 Dec, 2018 3:01 pm

Yes no worries I always carry a dry bag whether it's raining or a 40-deg. day just in case.

Specialist snakebite bandage added! I had no idea this thing existed. Cheers.
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby wildwanderer » Thu 20 Dec, 2018 4:35 pm

slparker wrote:
Neo wrote:The bandages with indicator squares on them are really good, their shape when stretched shows when you have attained a suitable pressure.

The setopress bandage is not designed for treatment of snakebite although it is excellent for it.
To develop the pressure required to inhibit lymphatic flow, and thus the movement of venom, you have to exceed the pressure attained by following the instructions in the bandage pack.
I addressed this in a snakebite thread a while ago.
The reference first aid groups in australia (resus.org and St Johns) describe the technique of Pressure Immobilisation using an elasticised bandage being firmly applied - the setopress is a suitable bandage but apply it tighter than the printer squares suggest.


My setopress has two levels of pressure. Moderate and high.(green and brown squares respectively). I've always believed the brown high pressure level was the appropriate one for snake bite.

Are you advising to exceed the high (brown) level of pressure?

Ive never heard of this before, do you have links where this stated as the recommended advice?
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby Moondog55 » Thu 20 Dec, 2018 5:33 pm

I am beginning to think it is a good idea to separate medications from the first aid kit, keeping them close together but not mixing them. I carry too much stuff but even if I haven't ever used them I keep at least 2 combine pressure bandages in small and large. Over 40 years mostly what I have used are large bandaids and moleskin felt blister pads
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby Lamont » Thu 20 Dec, 2018 5:58 pm

Hey splarker as it has come up (setopress) can you link that post. Is it in the snake bite thread? Cheers
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby andrewa » Thu 20 Dec, 2018 7:13 pm

Wildwanderers kit sounds pretty practical.

Mine varies as to what I’m doing, and how long I’m away, and how far from help I am, but sometimes it’s only bandaids ( which were last used to repair a leaking sleeping mat on Bogong in winter - note than normal bandaids “breath”, so are useless for this!)


Simple 4” elastic bandage for snake bite -
Panadol
Bandaids
Antidiarrhoea stuff
Antihistamine
Cold and flu
A gauze pad
EPIRB/phone.

Unless you’re leading a group, only take what you might need.

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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby andrewa » Thu 20 Dec, 2018 7:20 pm

PS I broke my wrist on a backcountry fly fishing trip in NZ 3yrs ago - managed to fashion a splint with a bit of cardboard ( or could have used some sticks) and a bandage (which I had). Was OK carrying a pack for a day, and then spent the last day of our 10 day trip spotting fish for my mate (it was my casting arm), before planned heli pickup at the end. So, in my case, just problem solving worked fine.

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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby slparker » Thu 20 Dec, 2018 9:22 pm

@Lamont @wildwanderer

slparker wrote:The setopress bandage was designed to treat venous ulcers and creates subcutaneous pressures less than that used in clinical studies for snake envenomation (setopress: 30mmHg green square, 40mmHg brown square) recommendations for treatment of snakebite in the lower limbs is at least 55mmHg pressure +/- 5 mmHg. The setopress juist meets the minimum for upper limb treatment. (mmHg is a measurement of pressure.)
http://www.woundsource.com/product/seto ... on-bandage

In one study that was done testing first aiders actual efficacy at applying pressures to the skin approximating the recommendation (55mmHg) this is what was found:
Crepe bandage: average:28mmHg (range - 17‐42 mmHg)
Elasticated bandages: Average 47 mmHg (range - 26‐83 mmHg)
most participants applying the elasticized bandage were closer to the estimated optimal pressure (55‐70 mmHg).
Following training, the median pressure for the 36 participants was 65 mmHg (IQR 56‐71 mmHg), closer to the optimal range than initial attempts.

Conclusion: do not rely on the SetoPress High Compression bandage to be effective if you only meet the tension indicated by the coloured squares as it is not designed to meet the pressures required for effective treatment of snakebite. Find a good first aid provider to teach you the correct tension with an elasticated bandage, practice this and you will give your casualty the best chance. I'm not saying that the setopress is useless (in fact they're elasticated bandages so they meet the requirements of the ARC for treatment of snakebite), just that you'd have to exceded the tension in the coloured squares to meet the recommended pressure on a leg.

The Australian Resuscitation Council (ARC) states the following about first aid management of snakebite:
'If on a limb, apply a broad pressure bandage over the bite site as soon as possible.. Elasticised bandages (10-15cm wide) are preferred over crepe bandages'
The ARC provides current guidelines on emergency management.
http://www.resus.org.au

Here's a good lit review on the evidence:
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct= ... nczHluLQcQ

St John's interpretation
http://stjohn.org.au/assets/uploads/fac ... kebite.pdf


This is taken from an earlier post I wrote for the snakebite thread. The conclusion is to go a little tighter than that recommended for the setopress (which is designed for ulcers not snakebite) and/or take a first aid course with a reputable organisation to practice the correct amount of pressure.

There are a fair few companies that state that the setopress is a snakebite bandage and advocate for using the coloured squares as the tension required to develop the pressure for treating a snakebite. It is close but not sufficient for best treatment.

AVRU at Monash UNi recommend the setopress bandage (i.e. as an elastic bandage) but do not recommend using the coloured squares but do restate the correct pressure required to limit lymphatic fluid (and thus venom) movement.
https://biomedicalsciences.unimelb.edu. ... G_AVRU.pdf
When I get back to work I will contact them and clarify their position on the setopress.

Conclusion: There is nothing wrong with the setopress bandage it is an excellent snakebite bandage but using the coloured squares as a guide does not develop the pressure required to limit envenomation in treating a snakebite on the legs.
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby Lamont » Fri 21 Dec, 2018 4:46 am

Thanks kindly splarker for all that. Should you know of a way to estimate that pressure I wouldn't mind knowing it.
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby dagsands » Fri 21 Dec, 2018 6:21 am

With dodgy knees I always underestimate how much ibuprofen I will need.
My only suggestions to add to the above are:

- I take anti diarrheal tablets (aka Imodium) in my kit (removed from their box but with masking tape with dosage instructions written on it stuck to the bubble side), but I also take a couple of oral rehydration sachets - I take the Priceline brand ones. Once diarrhea hits you don't just want to plug up, it's also a good idea to replace your salts and avoid dehydration.
- I take leukotape, but not a whole roll.i wrap a long piece round my Sawyer water filter straw which I have never needed to use but always goes with me in my emergency kit (repair and first aid together in a small loksak bag). Some people wrap their tape around a pen but I find I use my pen a lot and the tape gets grubby. I stash my snake bandage separately as that thing is huge.
Two dags and their pooch who live at the beach in their home called Dagsands, of course.
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby Gadgetgeek » Fri 21 Dec, 2018 7:06 am

I think the biggest advantage to the setopress was that it was big enough to easily do the coverage needed. The newer snakebite bandages seem larger and thus have the coverage needed. I've seen kits with two little rinky-dink 50mm bandages, good for an ankle or wrist, but not an entire leg.
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby gbagua » Fri 21 Dec, 2018 8:18 am

1. Going to purchase a first aid kit. 126 pieces for $24 bucks. Heaps cheaper than buying single items.

2. Forget about buying snake bite bandage during Xmas. Delivery is after NY...and I need this on the w/end starting on 29
& 30 Dec. So I'm going to purchase an alternative. Is the following one good enough to do the job:

https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy ... 0cm-x-1-5m


Cheers :)
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby Moondog55 » Fri 21 Dec, 2018 8:38 am

Only for arms Get 150mm for legs and get 2 as a minimum, 3 of them might be better. Bigger legs may need more wrapping
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby gbagua » Fri 21 Dec, 2018 10:54 am

Thanks, done! No first aid kit. Don't like the quality of what is being supplied so I'll have to purchase some individual items. Betadine liquid is a must for me plus quality nurse scissors which were not that good in the first aid kit.
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby slparker » Fri 21 Dec, 2018 11:19 am

Lamont wrote:Thanks kindly splarker for all that. Should you know of a way to estimate that pressure I wouldn't mind knowing it.

I will see if I can rig up an experiment at work with some pressure cuffs and I will contact AVRU at Monash, as well. A project for mid January.
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby Lamont » Fri 21 Dec, 2018 2:17 pm

slparker wrote:
Lamont wrote:Thanks kindly splarker for all that. Should you know of a way to estimate that pressure I wouldn't mind knowing it.

I will see if I can rig up an experiment at work with some pressure cuffs and I will contact AVRU at Monash, as well. A project for mid January.

Thanks again, really appreciate it.
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby wildwanderer » Fri 21 Dec, 2018 8:43 pm

Many thanks slparker. Lots of great information! Looking forward to the results of the pressure estimation.
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Re: Light and compact first aid kit

Postby Mongoose » Fri 04 Jan, 2019 9:27 am

In regards to snake bite bandages I carry two of these:
https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy ... cm-x-10-5m

I hope they are specifically designed to apply the correct pressure and not just a repackaged bandage, the indicator would be useless if so.
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