Radiant hammock underpad and beer can pot

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Radiant hammock underpad and beer can pot

Postby Bluegum Mic » Mon 31 Oct, 2011 5:00 pm

I purchased some radiant insulation off ebay (funnily enough from a place 10mins away. I've made two pads (one for a friend). Its uber easy. Silver reflective one side, I've added a lightweight green poly taffeta to the other and pinned grossgrain around the edge. I will sew them once the little guy goes to bed. Initial weight measurements put them at 200 and something grams (prob closer to 300) but will weigh it once sewn.

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I plan to slide it between my hammock layers.

I also made a beer can pot as well. I will have to test it quite a bit as you can no longer get the heine 24oz keg can so the only suitable one is the sapporo. Its a very thick, robust can but a little top heavy. I have bashed it endlessly when full and it doesn't topple. The real test will be when I get my soda can stove back from a friend. Hopefully they fit nice n snug.

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Last edited by Bluegum Mic on Thu 03 Nov, 2011 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad

Postby Macca81 » Mon 31 Oct, 2011 7:21 pm

How well does that pad pack down? i am picturing it to be similar to the blue CCF pads? which would mean that it is a bit bulky i think... is it thinner than that?
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad

Postby Nuts » Mon 31 Oct, 2011 7:42 pm

Hi mic, i really like the stove idea from this kit, ive been gathering the materials to make one: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... d_id=54580

Is that similar to the space 'all-weather' blanket material? I imagine something is thicker as the space blanket material weight was around 200g for a similar size. It also has a cheap poly woven fabric layer instead of that nylon. Nice! Have you seen http://www.diygearsupply.com/cgi-bin/shelf.cgi?numb=65 .

I like the idea of reflective ground sheets etc seems like an even better application in a hammock where the only negative thermal mass is the sheet itself (i'm still pondering the discussion the other day, wish i had a better handle on physics, a gap could be formed with foam strips?.. thinking out loud.. i'll never use a hammock but just intrigued i guess)
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad

Postby Bluegum Mic » Mon 31 Oct, 2011 8:49 pm

Right. All done.

Macca Im pleased to say it folds (well rolls) down much smaller than a ccf mat. It comes in finished at a grand total of 220g. Nuts its actually bubble foil insulation (similar to what's found on car windscreen protectors) but this rolls better and is lighter. I've simply put the poly taffeta on the bubble side and the other side is the silver reflective. The way Ive rolled it, its 39x11cm. I've got a nice piece left over that I can make a double thickness foot pad for winter to supplement my UQ. I saw the DIY gear supply stuff but stupidly I've already got an order coming from them and couldn't be bothered doing another and waiting. Ill be interested to see anything you make from it :-)

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Yes nuts the soda can/penny stoves are pretty cool. I've been hunting everywhere for a heine pot to no avail. This sapporo can is seriously tough, both horizontally and vertically ridge and weighs 100g (650ml capacity). Its only downfall is it could be too top heavy. Ill post a pic of it on my stove in the coming weeks.
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad

Postby Nuts » Mon 31 Oct, 2011 9:03 pm

hi mic, what a great idea!!well done eh!! that should be warm +, do you have a ebay link?
(the stove from (that link) i like (wick style, no spill) im making one to swap for the trail designs caldera stove )
Some of this stuff is easier/quicker to make than order.. and lighter, skip the manufacturers tolerances, built to size etc.. will you eventually sell all the commercial gear youv'e bought? :) you have a fair stable so far!!
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad

Postby Bluegum Mic » Mon 31 Oct, 2011 9:25 pm

Ha! Never (evil laugh). Mind you I've only got 2 tents, 2 mats, a hammock and tarp. I've got a down quilt, my girlfriend loved my synthetic quit I made so she gave me the $$ I paid for the fabric and insulation. I've got 2 packs (a one planet shadow plus a crapmandu one which I shouldn't bag as I really like it but I mostly use it for o/s travel). Kovea moonwalker stove with GSI soloist pot plus a soda can stove plus my now beer can pot. So yes a bit of gear for moi but I endlessly seem to provide gear for pals who join me for overnighters. Well thats my excuse and Im sticking to it ;-)

Now I just want a day pack that I can use for lightweight overnighters. Anyone got a golite jam or litespeed for me ;-)
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad

Postby Bluegum Mic » Mon 31 Oct, 2011 9:31 pm

This is what I bought but they've got lots of various lengths/widths.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SILVER-FOIL- ... 519a65aac9
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad

Postby Nuts » Tue 01 Nov, 2011 12:02 pm

Thanks mic. Hey that can could make a mini caldera cone :idea:
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad

Postby Franco » Tue 01 Nov, 2011 2:33 pm

Mic
Try that Sapporo can with your stove but it did not work well for me.
Two reasons I think. One it is a stainless steel can and two the bottom was too small to effectively capture the heat , or more likely the can is tall enough to work as a heat sink losing the heat from the bottom.(or something along those lines...)
I see that now there are 1L cans also made from aluminum but the ones I found on the net are just a taller version of the standard 330/375mm can. (narrow and too thin)
I also tried the "Caldera Cone " bit (actually mimicking the Swiss Volcano contraption) and that was a failure too. Can't remember why...
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad

Postby Bluegum Mic » Tue 01 Nov, 2011 7:47 pm

That's a shame :-( Its a good looking can for a pot ;-) I had a good look at Dan murphys and it was the only suitable one. I went to the Asian supermarket and found a coconut juice aluminium can that's ridged and solid but only 500mls. Im not sure it will offer any more width at the bottom either.
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad

Postby Franco » Wed 02 Nov, 2011 6:46 am

Mic
Try it anyway, it may work for you.
Those cans with the ridges should be stronger than the ones without.
I did a search yesterday for larger cans on the net but could not find another keg or one with ridges.
There is a discussion here on how to make those indentations...
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... d_id=54076
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad

Postby Bluegum Mic » Wed 02 Nov, 2011 6:54 am

Thanks Franco.

Ill be sure to repost my results once I get my stove back. Ill test both cans and see which boils first and time etc. Its not a big deal as I've always got my GSI pot, however its more the nostalgia of using the can pot n stove together :-) plus the can is slightly lighter.

Cheers
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad

Postby Nuts » Thu 03 Nov, 2011 8:57 am

Franco wrote: (actually mimicking the Swiss Volcano contraption) Franco


(Look like a good idea, cheaper than chips too: )

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/wx130-1.html

Perhaps the can base is too narrow still but i was thinking more using the wider half as the windshield/potstand
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad

Postby Orion » Thu 03 Nov, 2011 9:32 am

The beer in those big steel Sapporo cans is a lot better than what comes in the Heineken and Fosters cans but the empties are about three times as heavy. It's a pity you can't get the large Heineken/Fosters cans where you are, they are easy to find here in California. I'd bring you one if it were reasonable to arrange. But as long as you don't mind the weight why not use a large food can or a coffee can? The weight is similar but the dimensions are probably more suitable.

I wish somebody in the UL world would make thin walled aluminum pots, basically those beer cans but shaped like pots instead.
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad

Postby Franco » Thu 03 Nov, 2011 1:08 pm

Most food cans are made from steel coated with tin (tin can) . Again not a good heat conductor.
Many are also coated with some epoxy that may be not that good for your health.
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad

Postby Bluegum Mic » Thu 03 Nov, 2011 1:23 pm

Orion if you stumble across one of the 24oz heineken mini kegs (I believe they've been discontinued though :-() id gladly give you the $$ for it plus postage. If your handy with a can opener you can take the top off and drink the beer in it by all means :-)
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad and beer can pot

Postby Orion » Fri 04 Nov, 2011 7:24 am

Mic - I guess you are right about them disappearing. I know I saw them very recently, but I went by the store last night and they didn't have them. There was still a spot on the shelf with the item description and price so I thought they were just out of stock. But I visited several other stores and found none. There was one shop that carried just about every size and shape and packaging option of Heineken (including the giant keg) and they didn't have it either.

The large aluminum Fosters cans are still available here. They are a bit narrower than the Heineken cans; also a few grams lighter, or so I've read.

If I come across a Heineken can I'll buy it for you.
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad and beer can pot

Postby Orion » Fri 04 Nov, 2011 7:38 am

Franco, I'm not a chemist so I don't know how much tin dissolves in boiling water. It surely is reactive in acidic conditions (as is aluminum). Even with the coating it isn't uncommon to find corrosion in cans containing tomato sauce or pineapple. I suspect I've ingested a fair amount of tin this way over the years. How bad is tin for you, anyways?

As for heat conductance, does it really matter that much if you're just boiling water? Stainless steel cookware isn't some rare item afterall. And titanium isn't especially conductive either. Whenever I've seen side by side tests of various cookware materials the differences in boil time and efficiency were minimal at best.

Beverage containers (like my Heineken can) are also coated with some sort of epoxy-like polymer. The coating is food grade, of course, but it is not designed to be used for cooking. Now I wonder what might dissolve from the coating into your boiling water? I don't know, but it's one of the reasons I'm not especially keen to use my beer can pot too often. That and the fact that its not an optimal shape (can't really cook in it and have to turn the stove down so the flame stays underneath it). To be honest I found it a little surprising that anyone would sell a stove system with a used beverage can as a pot. Do they have any data as to its safety?
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad and beer can pot

Postby Franco » Mon 07 Nov, 2011 7:25 am

Orion
You will find that using a stainless steel /ss-tin can will be about 1-2 min slower (boiling 500ml of water) than an aluminium or titanium pot of a similar size.
The reason why titanium comes up at similar times is because the walls are a lot thinner.

Mic
Zelph sells those ridged Foster cans.
He has a short video comparing them to the Heineken keg.
(he might have a few kegs for sale too...)
http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/foster-ridgline-pot.php
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad and beer can pot

Postby Orion » Mon 07 Nov, 2011 1:11 pm

Franco, who makes an aluminum pot shaped like a food can (and why)?
I'd love to see the details of this test (or tests) you are citing

This link suggests that the material does not matter for boiling speed / fuel efficiency:
http://www.thru-hiker.com/articles/debunking_cookware_myths.php
But they didn't test food cans. I imagine they thought nobody would ever want to use one.
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad and beer can pot

Postby Bluegum Mic » Mon 07 Nov, 2011 1:44 pm

Thankyou Franco. I found that page ages ago then couldn't remember what it was.

I just made a cat can stove for some fun. I really like it.
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad and beer can pot

Postby Bluegum Mic » Mon 07 Nov, 2011 4:40 pm

Well part one is complete. I've tested the saporo beer pot with 700ml of water on the cat can stove. I forgot to put the lid on and did at 2:55sec. Ill do the same when I test the ti GSI soloist pot.

Drum roll.....it came in at a respectable 4min and 52sec for a rolling boil.

To be continued after dinner...:-)

Results are in and the winner is... The beer pot :-) The Ti pot took 5min 47 under identical conditions. Eeeek!

Best part is you put your little fuel bottle in the pot then the cat can fits in the top of the pot like it was made for it. The lid even fits the cat.can snug
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad and beer can pot

Postby Orion » Tue 08 Nov, 2011 8:28 am

Bluegum, I'm surprised that your ultra-skinny Sapporo pot mated well with that Cat stove. I decided against using a Cat stove with my Heineken pot because it seemed like the flames ran up the sides too much when I tried it. I figured it wouldn't be too fuel efficient. It was also burning the silicone I'd added to the outside of my can so that I could grip it when hot.

By the way, I've just about given up on finding you a beer can. Sorry about that. I wish I'd known they were about to disappear, I'd like a fresh one for myself.
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad and beer can pot

Postby Orion » Tue 08 Nov, 2011 8:38 am

I did a quick test last night using three different containers:

1. Aluminum Heineken 24oz "keg" can
2. Steel Progresso soup can (550ml capacity)
3. Aluminum disposible mini bread loaf pan (300ml capacity)

The Heineken and soup cans are almost identical in diameter. A Heineken can weighs about 30g (mine weighs twice this because I slathered silicone on the outside). The soup can weighs 65g. It is a two-piece can (no seams except at the lid) which I believe means that it is probably tin-free.

The loaf pan weighs 8g and is a rectangle. I was surprised this thin aluminum didn't burn easily. But it remained unscathed even when exposed to full flame for several minutes without any water in it. I wonder how it would hold up on a multi-day trip? (It's not a new idea: http://web.archive.org/web/20061022080329/http://www.planetfear.com/product_detail.asp?d_id=9&c_id=19&s_id=512&p_id=11202)

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I used 500g of water at about 18°C and ran the (canister) stove until boiling began. I used a simple windscreen, a foil lid, and I had the flame tuned kind of low, just as I normally would with a narrow can/pot. The start of boiling is somewhat subjective, admittedly, but I tried to be fair.

Results (time to boil / fuel used for 500ml of water):

1. 5:39 / 7.87g - Aluminum Heineken can
2. 5:28 / 7.77g - Steel soup can
3. 5:18 / 7.56g - Mini bread loaf pan (twice the values of one 250ml boil)

I don't see any significant difference here.
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad and beer can pot

Postby Bluegum Mic » Tue 08 Nov, 2011 1:33 pm

Interesting.

Yes the flames do go up the sides. But it was funny as my ti pot has a wider base so the flames don't come up much past the base vs the saporo pot has flames 1/2 way up. It definitely boiled faster so perhaps it helped somehow. Yes it melted my red holder so I just used silicon grippers :-)
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad and beer can pot

Postby Franco » Wed 09 Nov, 2011 10:18 am

Hi mic
Glad that my comments did not put you off the exercise..
After reading about the flame up the sides I remembered why I had such poor results from it. I ended up using tea-light type stoves that have a narrow but weak flame.
Admittedly I was not all that interested in making it work but still I have not seen anyone that has tried the Sapporo to post positive comments after repeated use.
A few days ago I sniffed around the local shops for 700-1000ml wider aluminium cans but no luck.
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad and beer can pot

Postby Bluegum Mic » Wed 09 Nov, 2011 10:23 am

Ha! Yes always looking for something to tinker with so it was worth a try. Not convinced of its use in the bush though. I don't want to start a bushfire. :-)
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad

Postby Orion » Wed 30 Nov, 2011 2:52 am

Bluegum Mic wrote:Orion if you stumble across one of the 24oz heineken mini kegs (I believe they've been discontinued though :-() id gladly give you the $$ for it plus postage. If your handy with a can opener you can take the top off and drink the beer in it by all means :-)


Bluegum, I stumbled across a source for these recently. Bought a handful of them.
The beer isn't as bad as I remembered, at least when chilled to nearly 0°C.

Let me know if you still have desire for an empty.
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Re: Radiant hammock underpad and beer can pot

Postby Bluegum Mic » Wed 30 Nov, 2011 6:39 am

Thankyou Orion.

Ill definitely grab an empty if there's one spare. Ill send you a PM to arrange some $$
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