Cheap and light storm shelter

[Moondog55]

As things will not be back to "working abnormality" here for ages I am getting TerraRosa to give me a cost on one, anything much less than the weight of my old Dutch poncho and I'll probably go with it

[Franco]

Brooks Range's focus is climbers so that shelter is really only for two if you are two very comfortable with each other spooning kind of people.

For the rest I would not consider a shelter design that has one high point with the fabric going down to ground level at the other end.
Either far too long or long footprint and still not much usable space inside anyway.

Reading again my comments on the Contrail (not my choice for what Moondog wants to do) the newer version , the ProTrail , is much better suited given its modified A frame design.
No built in struts so can be shoved into a pack if desired.

[Moondog55]

Valid comment if what I needed was a tent Franco but CC skiing is probably closer to climbing that bushwalking
I am still saving for the Protrail as a summer tent; tho winter is my priority and the shape of the Quicktent is sort of what I do with the poncho anyway and how I would set-up my LW tarp if I had made it

[Sandbars]

http://www.zpacks.com/shelter/altaplex.shtml

for some reason that link was itself repeated! try this one. cheers, Julie

[Don R]

Brooks Range Quick Tent at McFarlane Saddle (Vic)

Interesting question, Moondog. How much of a compromise to save weight are you willing to make? As you can see from the above photos the "Quick Tent" (which is neither) can be made taunt and with a reasonable air gap. It sheds water adequately, and doesn't collapse under a light frosting. Don't be fooled by the sleeping mat (Sea to Summit insulated mat) to the side. This is purely a one person shelter. If you were in that sleeping bag the condensation would be dripping all over the bag. Even in the middle, without propping up the tail end of the fly, a person on a mat in a fluffy bag (Sea to Summit Traverse, not a huge snow bag, weighs 1200g) has their feet centimetres below the fly's inner side. Where you can see the patch of frost in the middle of the tent, the natural angle of the fabric is intended to continue downwards. The best technique, I have found, is to use a SOL bivvy bag as protection against condensation and heat loss. By the time you factor in a full load of pegs, recommended to keep the tent taunt, and a bivvy bag the weight is getting up to around 700g.

If you were to dig a pit in the snow, use snow pegs, and embed the QT in the pit it would probably resist most conditions reasonably well but the possibility of complete failure would be much higher than a real 4 season tent.

Having said all this, I still use this fly when I solo walk and don't need the additional weight or protection of one of my real tents.It does pack into a sleeve sewn into the fly, and is about the size of a Nalgene bottle.

[Franco]

"The best technique, I have found, is to use a SOL bivvy bag as protection against condensation and heat loss. By the time you factor in a full load of pegs, recommended to keep the tent taunt, and a bivvy bag the weight is getting up to around 700g."

That is about the weight of my Notch with the inner...

[Moondog55]

Now if TT made a Half Notch fly it would be perfect
This may actually get made in Tyvek if I can find mine and get some Cuben tape

[Moondog55]

Now if TT made a Half Notch fly it would be perfect
This may actually get made in Tyvek if I can find mine and get some Cuben tape

[Strider]

Now if TT made a Half Notch fly it would be perfect
This may actually get made in Tyvek if I can find mine and get some Cuben tape

Half which way? Why? Tyvek isn't waterproof remember.

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[GPSGuided]

What about this one?

https://richarddawkins.net/2015/10/a-ma ... ntaineers/

[Moondog55]

[
Half which way? Why? Tyvek isn't waterproof remember.

No floor or inner to save weight and bulk in a day pack

Tyvek is waterproof "enough" for an emergency shelter; after all Evan makes tarps from it
Remembering that my current emergency shelter is an old Dutch army poncho

[Moondog55]

What about this one?

https://richarddawkins.net/2015/10/a-ma ... ntaineers/

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=21308

Apparently it weighs about 5 kilos and takes up about 20 litres of pack space

[GPSGuided]

That killed it.

[Moondog55]

I just rescued a couple of Delrin wands from a kids pusher; while salvaging webbing and buckles. 5mm by 600 long. How strong are these Delrin rods?
I thought they might be worth keeping to use at the back of any shelter I sew up, in the same way TT use the carbon fibre wands

[neilmny]

Delrin (Acetal) is fairly stiff but nothing like CF. It will break but it is "strong" MD.
I'm not familiar with the TT carbon fibre wand set up to be able to compare it.
I suggest you sacrifice a little to test that out by say holding about 1" (25.4mm ) in a vise and bending it.

[Strider]

Franco please correct me if I'm wrong, but the TT wands seem to provide stiffness and structure rather than actual strength.

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[Moondog55]

Having seen the pix of Franco doing pushups on one of the triangle frames I would say they add a lot of strength in the vertical and resistance to movement would be from the guys + tent fabric

[Strider]

The key is rigidity. If the delrin wands are flexible then they won't really work in this application as they woild just bend when the pressure is cranked down on them.

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[Moondog55]

More flexible than 7001 in the 8mm tube but stiffer than FG in 7mm

[undercling-mike]

Did you end up coming up with something for this MD? Or did it get put on the backburner for other projects. Any further thoughts on the subject?

[Moondog55]

I put it on the backburner and took my old Moss Tent-Wing fly.
This winter has been so hard I think my winter adventures above the snow-line may be coming to a close soon

[undercling-mike]

That's not the best to hear MD. Hopefully you'll be able to continue with some fun adventures, either above or below the snow line.

I just brought this thread back up because I was looking through the MYOG subforum and it's one of the biggest threads, so I wanted to see what you worked out in the end. There are also some interesting new fabrics such as a 7d coated nylon from Rockywoods that might be worth discussion for a lightweight emergency shelter.

[Giddy_up]

Hi Mike, just further on this..........there must be a way to make a one person Bibler style tent with a vestibule under a kilo with proper ventilation. The closest thing I can see with very good ventilation is the Nemo Tenshi, only problem is it comes with a cumbersome vestibule and starts to get seriously heavy but the ventilation looks good.

If someone could make a tent like a Hilleberg Soulo in single wall, with proper ventilation like the Tenshi I would buy one tomorrow.


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[Moondog55]

It's more a lack of cash than anything Mike, the health issues I can deal with/work-around The winter expeditions have also begun to chew up too much of the reserve.
After talking to some people with serious survival training a small tarp / poncho in the lightest possible fabric combined with a decent bivvy bag seems to offer the best option and I already have the Moss fly
That aside I would have gone with a coffin shaped Cuben tarp sized to fit over a snow trench

[Moondog55]

For the time involved and the material cost it may be just as well to simply buy something cheap and consider it a disposable
This tiny shelter from China would certainly fit the bill
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/131898297907 ... EBIDX%3AIT

No need for the inner [ although that may be useful in summer solo if the mozzies were out] and I'd have the skis/ ski poles for strong support anyway

[undercling-mike]

Hard to beat the price certainly, if it meets other criteria and is well made enough to withstand one storm. Snow trench and tarp sounds like a good solution in any case.