Metho in msr fuel bottle?

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Metho in msr fuel bottle?

Postby robbio » Tue 07 Jan, 2020 4:12 pm

Hi

I would like to know people’s thoughts on using msr fuel bottles to store methylated spirits for use in a trangia?

Reason being, I already own a couple of them and have used them for this purpose. I chose them over the plastic trangia branded bottle because I figured the msr ones would be more durable. But the last time I emptied leftover metho I noticed it was cloudy.

Someone in an outdoor store said the trangia bottle is the only bottle in their store that you should use for metho, and that the cloudiness would be the lining getting eaten away due to pitting.

Is this a real issue, any thoughts for burning cloudy metho, or the lifespan of msr bottles with metho stored in them long term?

Thanks in advance
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Re: Metho in msr fuel bottle?

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 07 Jan, 2020 5:24 pm

While I don't use a Trangia I do use metho. I store mine in old coke bottles or the PET bottles it is sold in.
Never heard of metho going cloudy so I'll be following
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: Metho in msr fuel bottle?

Postby GregG » Tue 07 Jan, 2020 5:47 pm

Back when I was still using a Trangia I carried the metho fuel in a one litre Nalgene fuel bottle. I can't remember what brands of metho I used and don't know what extraneous substances were mixed in by the manufacturers but the Nalgene bottle lasted a couple of years and and suddenly went brittle and disintegrated, luckily this happened at home when preparing for a walk so I was not stuck out in the donga without fuel and with metho soaked gear. I've no idea why this occurred but presumably the fuel attacked and changed the hardness/composition of the plastic, but strangely enough metho is sold in plastic containers which seem to have a long life on the shelf. This has nothing to do with your question about MSR containers making the metho cloudy but I just throw it in as evidence of the (apparant) ability of metho to attack some plastics. Maybe ditch the Trangia and use gas?
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Re: Metho in msr fuel bottle?

Postby Tino B » Tue 07 Jan, 2020 6:20 pm

Metho will corrode aluminium. Here’s a link to an old forum post which discusses fuel containers viewtopic.php?f=53&t=11805
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Re: Metho in msr fuel bottle?

Postby rcaffin » Thu 09 Jan, 2020 8:11 pm

The old Nalgene red fuel bottles were fine with Shellite or petrol, but NOT with metho. The label gives an explicit warning.
PET bottles are fine with metho. They are probably also OK with Shellite and kero, or even, gasp, with water!

Cheers
Roger
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Re: Metho in msr fuel bottle?

Postby ChrisJHC » Fri 10 Jan, 2020 1:15 pm

I use Listerine bottles. Never had a problem.

Whatever you end up using, please make sure you mark them really clearly as metho!
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Re: Metho in msr fuel bottle?

Postby Jazzman56 » Fri 07 Feb, 2020 9:28 am

The MSR fuel bottles are not compatible with Metho (will corrode). I agree on using a Nalgene or Trangia fuel bottle !!
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Re: Metho in msr fuel bottle?

Postby Gadgetgeek » Sat 08 Feb, 2020 7:59 pm

GregG wrote:Back when I was still using a Trangia I carried the metho fuel in a one litre Nalgene fuel bottle. I can't remember what brands of metho I used and don't know what extraneous substances were mixed in by the manufacturers but the Nalgene bottle lasted a couple of years and and suddenly went brittle and disintegrated, luckily this happened at home when preparing for a walk so I was not stuck out in the donga without fuel and with metho soaked gear. I've no idea why this occurred but presumably the fuel attacked and changed the hardness/composition of the plastic, but strangely enough metho is sold in plastic containers which seem to have a long life on the shelf. This has nothing to do with your question about MSR containers making the metho cloudy but I just throw it in as evidence of the (apparant) ability of metho to attack some plastics. Maybe ditch the Trangia and use gas?

I've had nalgene bottles in storage degrade, I think it has a lot to do with storage conditions (in a box stewing in various off-gassed chemicals) and just age. Some of this stuff actually gets OLD! It also can depend on the batch and type of plastic, I have had the milky colored PET bottles fail, not seen one of the brown ones fail, and have only had one of the lexan bottles fail due to impact.


As to the OP, another factor for using the trangia bottle, metho will vaporize more, and generate more pressure within the bottle. the Trangia bottle makes it easier to equalize that pressure than a screw-top bottle. Just prevents a little spray, though they will cough a bit out sometimes, its controlled.

One of the aspects of metho in a steel or alloy bottle is that there is nothing in the metho to keep oxygen from attacking the metal. There is no chance of any coating. I have a buddy who found an old (presumably steel) fuel bottle that had white gas in it, he had no idea how long it had been forgotten in the back of a cupboard, 10 years or so was his conservative estimate. Oring crumbled when he took the cap off. There was a ring of corrosion at the level of the fuel, and the fuel was red from the rust which had formed below the fuel line. Who knows the condition of the fuel at the start, or how many hot-cold cycles could have added water to it. Even long term(decade) storage of kero is tough better to use and refresh.
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Re: Metho in msr fuel bottle?

Postby flingebunt » Sun 09 Feb, 2020 7:22 pm

Looked up the storage instructions for metho

Store in well-ventilated area and away from sources of ignition and heat. Store in cool, dry place and out of direct sunlight.
Store away from oxidising agents, such as alkali metals, acids, acid chlorides, ammonia and potassium tert-butoxide.
In case of flexible tubing usage, check with manufacturer to find product compatibility.
Aluminium is not a suitable container for storage.
Ground the container and transfer equipment to eliminate static electric sparks.
Keep containers closed at all times – check regularly for leaks.


Aluminium is mentioned as a specific no-no, which as already pointed out, excludes MSR fuel bottles.

I do know a little more information about storing alcohol in plastic bottles, and metho is 95 to 98% ethyl alcohol. A lot depends on the grade of plastic, but the two issues are
  • Chemicals from the plastic can get into the alcohol. Bad for storing vodka, but much of a problem for metho which, I assume you don't plan to drink.
  • Plastic can be permeable to the air.
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Re: Metho in msr fuel bottle?

Postby Kickinghorse » Fri 14 Feb, 2020 9:12 am

Adding to the discussion re fuel storage, we lived in Canada for a while and bought one those big green Coleman camp cookers for static camping.
We shipped stuff back including the cooker ( minus white gas/Shellite) refilled once on return, it then lived forgotten under The house in storage for 25 years. Thought just recently I would see if it would still light and maintain pressure, much to my surprise it fired up perfectly !
The seals on tank cap and condition inside the tank are also in pristine condition.

Phil
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Re: Metho in msr fuel bottle?

Postby commando » Fri 24 Jul, 2020 9:01 pm

Shellite in large bottle metho in small bottle continuous for 20 years
There is possibly large variations in types of alloy content and quality of metal
No Problems other than the shellite hardened and cracked the seal
Checked it today metho still clear...
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