Rock Climbing Ban: Grampians National Park, Victoria

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Rock Climbing Ban: Grampians National Park, Victoria

Postby jimjim » Sun 17 Mar, 2019 5:27 pm

Hi,

Please forgive me if this information has been posted previously.

I think this is an issue which will resonate with outdoor enthusiasts of all types and many of us here have been or still are keen climbers. Western Victoria and the Grampians have been a major centre for climbing for decades. This may be about to change.

Without trying to summarise a complex and evolving situation, I offer the link for a summary of what is happening currently in the Grampians for rock climbers and boulderers.

https://savegrampiansclimbing.org/

Quote from above:
"It is with shock and confusion that Australia’s climbing community has received news from Parks Victoria about substantial access bans to over 3,000 climbs (38% of total climbs) in the Grampians National Park / Gariwerd, including several world-class climbing areas."

Jim.
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Re: Rock Climbing Ban: Grampians National Park, Victoria

Postby slparker » Mon 18 Mar, 2019 4:14 pm

That still leaves 62% of climbs.

A climber left this comment on the Savegrampians climbing page:

"Climbers really do reek of privilege. While few people will acknowledge their own impact on the environment while climbing, few of us can really deny observing the impacts of climbers as a whole on cliffs and environments.

The Parks Victoria ban effectively removed some toys from the toy box of climbers, while the whole rest of the toy box is right there open to be played with.
The fuss, the letters, the outrage by the community shows less an understanding of why bans have been created in the first place and more a blindness to our own privilege."

Not stating a position one way or another but some bushwalkers do find climbers and commercial expolitation of cliff faces intrusive. there are two sides to the story.
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Re: Rock Climbing Ban: Grampians National Park, Victoria

Postby CBee » Mon 18 Mar, 2019 5:42 pm

Not stating a position one way or another but some bushwalkers do find climbers and commercial expolitation of cliff faces intrusive.

Then it looks like you just did.
Lets say, in reverse, that Nat Parks effectively removed some toys from the toy box of bushwalkers and hikers, while the whole rest of the toy box (62% of walking tracks) is right there open to be played with, how would hikers feel about it?
I say, climbers have been coming out in numbers in recent times, especially a new breed out of gyms, such boulderers and this could be a threat to the environment. As much as the hordes of hikers.
Leave no trace is the way, but is somehow concerning that a body (such NP or gov etc.) could actually have the deciding power to stop users enjoying a National Park or worst, giving permission for commercial developments.
PS: I am a bushwalker and a rockclimber.
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Re: Rock Climbing Ban: Grampians National Park, Victoria

Postby slparker » Mon 18 Mar, 2019 5:58 pm

We don't have unfettered rights to access national parks for any recreational activity. Should I be able to fly a drone in National Parks?

It is reasonable to restrict access to niche sports if to damage environmental and cultural sites are occurring. If they aren't occurring than PV have a case to answer and climbers ought to have access.

Are you aware if rockfaces are being bolted and sites are being overused?
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Re: Rock Climbing Ban: Grampians National Park, Victoria

Postby CBee » Mon 18 Mar, 2019 7:31 pm

Are you aware if rockfaces are being bolted and sites are being overused?

I am. I am also aware tracks, platforms, huts, boardwalks and so on have been constructed in NP to facilitate bushwalking. I am personally not too keen on sports climbing routes (bolted), unless a bolt is the only protection available but I would not start saying that a particular kind of user should not have the right to enjoy a National Park. There are different ways to enjoy the outdoor and the rock face is climbers territory. The air above is skydiving territory. The ground is bushwalker's. I can't understand how you can refer to rockclimbers as intrusive.
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Re: Rock Climbing Ban: Grampians National Park, Victoria

Postby jimjim » Mon 18 Mar, 2019 8:25 pm

slparker wrote:
Not stating a position one way or another but some bushwalkers do find climbers and commercial expolitation of cliff faces intrusive. there are two sides to the story.


My intention in posting this here was to let those out there who are or were climbers, or are bushwalkers who care about access to our national parks know what is going on by directing them to an (admittedly partisan) website with some information on it. This probably isn't the place to debate the current state of climbing. This is about access.

The bulk of the currently banned areas are nowhere near popular walking destinations.

For now.
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Re: Rock Climbing Ban: Grampians National Park, Victoria

Postby wildwanderer » Tue 19 Mar, 2019 1:35 pm

What is the damage that is of concern?
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Re: Rock Climbing Ban: Grampians National Park, Victoria

Postby potato » Tue 19 Mar, 2019 2:56 pm

slparker wrote:That still leaves 62% of climbs.

A climber left this comment on the Savegrampians climbing page:

"Climbers really do reek of privilege. While few people will acknowledge their own impact on the environment while climbing, few of us can really deny observing the impacts of climbers as a whole on cliffs and environments.

The Parks Victoria ban effectively removed some toys from the toy box of climbers, while the whole rest of the toy box is right there open to be played with.
The fuss, the letters, the outrage by the community shows less an understanding of why bans have been created in the first place and more a blindness to our own privilege."

Not stating a position one way or another but some bushwalkers do find climbers and commercial expolitation of cliff faces intrusive. there are two sides to the story.


Having been a climber a few decades ago, I do agree with the climbers comment. My climbing buddies at the time saw no problem with carrying their rock drills to crags in national parks and setting routes without any thought or care for the area, cultural heritage or other park users.

I'm glad Parks Vic have finally sent this message to climbers just as they have in the past to horse riders and four wheel drivers.

Our national parks are not some disneyland theme park.
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Re: Rock Climbing Ban: Grampians National Park, Victoria

Postby wildwanderer » Tue 19 Mar, 2019 3:50 pm

Great chronological summary on the lead up to this.

https://www.verticallifemag.com.au/2018 ... concerned/

Seems to be fairly impartial despite coming from a climbing org. Though I lack the first hand knowledge to say so definitely.
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Re: Rock Climbing Ban: Grampians National Park, Victoria

Postby CBee » Tue 19 Mar, 2019 4:14 pm

Rock climbing has changed dramatically since the 80s. I usually climb trad in obscure areas but I rarely come across trad climbers, not like some time ago. Now the majority is sport climbers and boulderers. I think this change in style in combination with a large amount of people coming out of gyms and diving into the outdoor, will threaten access. Bringing the gym to the National Park is a common attitude but I think education could fix this.
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Re: Rock Climbing Ban: Grampians National Park, Victoria

Postby ribuck » Tue 19 Mar, 2019 7:13 pm

This reminds me of when they banned climbing on the Three Sisters, because of alleged vegetation damage. The original prohibition sign, which is still there, says the ban will be reviewed annually, yet to my knowledge this has never happened. As for the vegetation, it looks the same now as in photos from the 1980s, so climbers weren't the cause of the alleged devegetation.
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Re: Rock Climbing Ban: Grampians National Park, Victoria

Postby rcaffin » Wed 20 Mar, 2019 5:41 pm

From memory (from long ago), the underlying reasons for the ban on climbing the Three Sisters had two points: there was a real risk of dropping rocks on the heads of tourists on the rock platform underneath (erk! liability!), and it was so visible that the risks of male teenage novices getting stuck or having an accident were significant.

Yes, I did do the climb before the ban came in. It was a bit exposed ...

OK, we used to do it on a Sunday pm when all the tourists were watching: an ego boost. One of the well-known and rather wild climbers of the time reckoned it was a good precursor to chatting up the birds (his words, not mine) ...

There was a lot of discussion about it at the time. Sigh, but we could see the point.

Cheers
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