Taking Safety Seriously

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Taking Safety Seriously

Postby tasadam » Tue 31 Jul, 2007 9:34 am

This has been on my mind for some time and in light of recent events, I felt it time I stood on the soap box for a moment.

It has been highlighted in a most unfortunate way recently, that sometimes, when walking, things can go wrong.
There have been numerous examples of people getting injured or worse in the Tasmanian wilderness.
Make no mistake, that is exactly what it is - wilderness. Untamed, wild, remote. When you set off on a walk, you may think you have it covered.
You may have the latest / best gear on offer. You may have been there before and "know" what you are setting out on. You may have heard it isn't that hard, or that the track is easy to find, or you may have been told by someone that you head north from the car park instead of following the track, and after a little while you will come across the track that heads north-east, which is the one you should follow, and that this little short-cut will save you a heap of time (assuming the trail you are aiming for hasn't moved or isn't covered in several feet of snow). Are you confident enough to do it / go there? Can you deal with anything that may happen? Any weather that nature throws your way? Can you find your own way if you have to?
At the outset, you need to be aware of one simple fact - it is you and solely you, that is responsible for your safety. The only time when this changes is when you are taking inexperienced people (including minors) into areas where you will be responsible for aspects of their safety.
I say "aspects", meaning things that you can control - such as where you are, what gear you have etc, but again it comes down to "you" that are responsible for your own actions. If you trip on a tree root or slip on an icy rock or a slippery part of the track, you are the one that took the judgement to place your foot there, or off-balanced for whatever reason.
If you slip and sprain an ankle, or worse, you are the one responsible.
As a child, we were encouraged by our parents to "stay away from the edge". Our natural curiosity is to peer over, to go for the better view, to try and capture that special photo angle, whatever. It is "you" - yourself, that took the judgement as a responsible person whether to take a risk for whatever reason. And you as that responsible person to wear the consequence of that action. You may find yourself at the bottom of a slippery rock with a broken ankle, wondering whether you are going to be found before hypothermia takes its course. You may indeed come to grief in a more sudden way.
Accidents happen out there. They are usually the result of a loss of traction between the boots and the matter to which you placed them on. They could be the loss of balance. They could be the failing of gear, or the lack of gear, or the improper use of gear. They could be because of poor judgement, brought about by emotion, exhilaration, exhaustion, inexperience....

To blame someone else for any accident is in my view a cop-out.
That can be taken in a number of ways. If for example someone loaned you a tent and it blew apart in the middle of a storm one night, you are the person that decided to put it there - did you check the weather, did you inspect the tent for its suitability or assume its condition?
If you were not told of the dangers on an icy mountain top, who was responsible for not telling you? Perhaps it is you that should endeavour to educate yourself before you go there?
An example - on a recent walk on the Overland track, we went to the top of Mt Ossa for the first time. There was a lot of snow on top. The last 20 or so metres to get to the highest rock consisted of boulder-hopping on snow-covered rocks - big rocks. I have been to the top of Cradle Mtn when there was no snow there, and seen some pretty big crevices between the rocks. I had not been to the top of Ossa before, so did not know whether any of the gaps between these boulders were indeed snow-covered crevices we could have fallen in. So we used good judgement not to proceed. Can you imagine? 20 metres or so from the tippety top and not proceeding? It's called "safety". I look forward to returning when the rocks aren't all covered in snow, to see whether someone that's been there in fine weather might think I am being a bit paranoid about it. I took the judgement based on common sense, being on top (well, as good as) of the highest mountain in Tasmania in the middle of winter. And even with an EPIRB with us, the purpose of being there wasn't to use it if we came to grief taking unnecessary risks. Better not to take unnecessary risks in the first place.

If someone doesn't come looking for you because you signed in to a park but didn't sign out on the predicted day, why not? Read the purpose of the sign-in books carefully! The old saying, "Let someone know, before you go!"
When choosing a walk to do, how do you find out whether you are properly equipped to do such a walk? ASK! If you feel you are not getting the information you require, ask someone else.
How many people actually take a look at these?
Of them, how many read this one??
Then there's this which is worth a look.
As well, there are many books out there with a lot of good information on walking in Tasmania. Take the time to look at some.

The recent talk of inadequacies of some elements of Tas Parks and Wildlife Service may have some merit.
I recently completed 9 days on the overland track, walking over 100km in total. I met up with a couple of lads from Sydney. They hired an EPIRB from Cradle Mtn visitors centre. They asked about where to sign in, as they were starting their walk from Dove Lake and going up the direct route to Marions Lookout before continuing. They were told by someone at the visitors centre to sign in at the first hut at Waterfall Valley.
My view is that they should have been told to sign in at the Ronny Creek car park sign in station and put in the "where are you starting" section "Dove Lake" instead of "here", or perhaps preferably, to sign in at the log book at Dove Lake in the shelter that has been built there. I heard this situation from them so cannot account for it first hand - who they spoke to and what they were told, but it is an issue.

To be a little bit more blunt, though intending not to be disrespectful, if a pack was found somewhere and subsequently reported to parks staff, by the time anything would have been done I suspect it would be too late. A bold assumption perhaps? Personally speaking, if I were covered in snow, even with the maximum number of layers I might have on including shell wear, I doubt my ability to survive for long if I were stuck in a rock crevice filled with snow. Not so for a sprained ankle not far from help. But on a mountain covered in snow, it comes down to taking responsibility for your own actions, and to take it on the chin rather than blame others as it seems so many are doing in the media lately.

I hope I am not bringing the curse of a thousand poxes upon myself for airing my views on this matter so openly. But if I do and something does happen to me, at least I will know who to blame.

Please, please educate yourselves on where you are going. Be prepared for events such as weather. A many fantastic time is to be had walking in the Tasmanian wilderness, but please be prepared, and take care!

Stay safe and enjoy :wink:
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Postby Son of a Beach » Tue 31 Jul, 2007 11:49 am

G'day Adam. It's good to have some good chewy meaty items in the forum from time to time.

I largely agree with your sentiments. We do need to be careful about what we do. It's much the same with all the (non-bushwalking-related) litigation that goes on these days. Somebody trips over on the footpath and wants compensation from the people who left a 10mm crack in the concrete. People need to take responsibility for their own actions.

Back to bush walking though... Those of us who do understand the risks (and are prepared to take them) do need to keep in mind that some others who come to us for advice may not understand the risks. So we have to be careful what advice we give and to whom, especially if we don't know the people well. In the end, the responsibility is with the walker for their own actions, but people offering advice need to take some responsibility for giving unsuitable advice on occasions (or not taking the time to understand if the people they are advising are experienced or prepared enough to follow the advice).

On laying blame: In the bush you can't sue the guy who made the wilderness (unless you're Billy Conolly), and sometimes people want a scape goat for their own poor judgement or just plain bad luck. There are many sources for good information about bush walking, be it Parks & Wildlife, friends, or whatever, but blaming any of those just because they didn't provide every possible detail and every possible outcome would be unreasonable.
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Postby scubabob » Tue 31 Jul, 2007 8:18 pm

Glad to see someone has the b***s to speak their mind and i have no qualms at all to anyone who does so long as its legitimate and not just bad mouthing someone. First off, i live in Victoria, but please don't hold that against me. Wifey and i have been to Tassie twice (just got back actually) and love the place - yes, we will move there.

As humans, we don't like to be wrong and will always look for someone else to blame for our own inadequacies and lack of judgement. Yes indeed, we should take responsibilty for what we do. i am an avid scuba diver and also often go bush in an old 1961 Land Rover SWB. If i choose to swim in the ocean where i know large critters who eat other critters live, and i get eaten by one of these, whose fault is it? Certainly not the hungry critter. It makes me so damn angry when i read about someone who has had an encounter with a shark or the like and the Vic Hesslop's of the world demand revenge. i mean, it's not like sharks are breaking down our doors to get to us. How many reports were there of stingrays being hunted after Steve Irwin's demise? As tragic as it was, he was in the ocean.

Same with my little beloved Landie. If i had a dollar for everytime i've stumbled across someone in the bush who sniggers at it with a "you came out here in that?" attitude as they look lovingly at their new $70K Land Cruiser ( with road tyres). Bear in mind, i have accurate maps, shovels, chains and all the recovery gear you could want - and i know how to use it, PLUS a duplicate contour map sitting on my lounge room table showing the area i am going to play in and what time i am expected home. If i am alone (as with diving alone) my wife knows exactly where i am and what to do if i am late So many times i have rescued people in the scrub who have no recovery gear or maps at all (even met one in a State Forest who was convinced RACV Total Care would help them out - wrong answer!)

While hiking through the Grampians in western Victoria many years ago with my daughter, we sat on a log for a breather when a woman came up to me and asked to see my map (contour, grid map), Hubby was convinced they were on track "A" but i showed them exactly where we were - about 2,000 metres away from where they thought they were on the photocopied map from the tourist info centre! Thing is, it was 3 in the afternoon, in May and the weather was starting to turn nasty. They had 3 little kids, all wearing gum boots, shorts and no jumpers. Not a backpack between any of them. They were some 3 hours from their motel and it was going to be dark in 1 1/2 hours! I was parked relatively close so i managed to bundle them all into my Landie ute and get them back to their motel. The Grampians is not a place to be wandering around lost at night.

Point is, if we are going to play in Nature's magnificent wilderness, repsect it for what it is. The wilderness, like the ocean, shows no mercy and does not tolerate fools.
you can't trully experience a rainforest without the rain
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Taking Safety Seriously

Postby chapman » Wed 01 Aug, 2007 10:32 pm

I have to agree with Adams sentiments. In Tasmania on longer trips you have to be prepared to self rescue. In general, if you got into serious trouble then by the time the alarm is raised you would often be dead anyway. As an example on a 10 day walk, assume you had a bad accident after five days, then it would be 6 or 7 days before you became overdue and the alarm was raised then they have to find you which might be impossible anyway. Depending on the problem you would probably be dead by then if you were seperated from your gear or very very bored and hungry from waiting so long.

Self rescue takes many forms ranging from getting yourself out to sending someone out to get help to come in. An EPIRB could also be regarded as self help but they are not 100% reliable either and you have no way of knowing if the sytem has sen your signal so they are alast resort. I have had several injuries over the years ranging from a stick poking into my eyeball, badly sprained ankles and a broken arm and ribs one time. In groups I have walked with there have also been 2 broken ankles over the years. In all cases for my injuries we walked out. For the broken ankles, one hopped out with help from the group to the nearest rod (took 1.5 days) or for the other broken ankle we sent half the party out to get transport to carry the person with the broken ankle (it was on a mangement track). In no cases did we simply sit and wait for help to find us as it would have come in far too late to be much help. As for the accidents to myself - they were always my fault or simply bad luck such as falling into a hidden hole in a buttongrass plain. In one case when I broke my arm I got asked by the police if I was going to sue - how silly that was as it was my fault and not parks. For those who think I might be injury prone - I'm not, its just that in 2000 days walking some things will happen now and then.

Its about time we got New Zealands no fault legislation whereby you cannot sue anyone for an injury but all medical treatment is free thus reducing much of the need to sue anyway.

My two bobs worth
John
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Re: Taking Safety Seriously

Postby Joe » Thu 02 Aug, 2007 7:25 am

chapman wrote:Its about time we got New Zealands no fault legislation whereby you cannot sue anyone for an injury but all medical treatment is free thus reducing much of the need to sue anyway.

My two bobs worth
John


I could not agree more wholeheartedly to these sentiments. Public Liability insurance has killed so many small businesses in tassie. gives me the *&^%$#@!.

There is a lot we could learn from our NZ neighbors, if we stopped extracting the urine out of them so much....but....well its just so fun :twisted:
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Postby kantonysen » Thu 02 Aug, 2007 10:04 pm

It's been rather a sad phenomenum where people now sue for accidents they have had. In relation to bushwalking I believe that its pretty nigh impossible to walk without having slips, slides and falls. It could be due to frost on the track, a tree root or a misjudged step. Its not something we can blame National Parks and Wildlife for.

If we are going to suggest that we are adult we will take responsility for what happens to us. Sueing should be discouraged, it's generally not an adult thing to do.
Cheers
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