Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec.'17

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Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec.'17

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Mon 01 Jan, 2018 7:47 pm

A full trip report is coming soon. My camera died on day four of this 5 day trek.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Wed 03 Jan, 2018 7:57 pm

On Dec. 27th 2017 I met two other VNPA walkers in Mt. Beauty and we piled into my RAV 4 and went up to meet the forth hiker at Watch bed creek.
With 5 days worth of food in our packs we trekked out to Roper's hut in clear and sunny weather. We took lunch en route at Edmondson's hut .The wildflowers there were mind blowingly good, psychedelic man !.There was a long ribbon of snow on the SE side of Mt. Nelse North. Someone had skied on it.
A few others were camping at Roper's hut including a North American cyclist who had cycled from Kosci. N.P.
Roper's hut is a lovely spot which I never become bored with.
The next day we packed up and were walking by just after 8 am. We made it to Spion Kopje for morning snacks (and a rest ) by 11 am. Our perambulation was including a photo stop at the nameless peak which is 1893 M. near Warby Corner, the third highest point in Victoria.
The Grey hills were next. I had 3 litres of water and didn't think I would run out but the weather was windy , overcast and humid. The drop off the Crow's nest was steep and overgrown. We all had to take five after that . Then we pushed on towards the Grey Hills Knob but needed to eat before we reached that scenic vantage point. Our lunch spot was full of ants.
When we reached the Grey Hills knob we saw a snake . It slithered off and we took another rest , ant free .The overgrown track and the rough route where you had to watch where you put every foot step was taxing. The up and down with a heavy pack was making me sweat and I knew I would run out of water. I was just sipping my water . I had put ORS into it to maintain an electrolyte balance but I wanted to slam down a litre of water not just sip a 3 L. bladder.
We made it to Mt. Arthur and stopped for a rest and took photos.
One of our party , so it transpired did not have a shell jacket or a sleeping mat. He just did without such things in South India , where he got started with hiking.
I should have had a look at his kit. His pack was quite small. Having no shell jacket on the high plains is a NO NO :-0 .A puffer jacket is not adequate.
We found the next kilometre coming down off the summit of Mt. Arthur to be very taxing chiefly because it is rather overgrown and we were becoming fatigued. Finally we reached the last km. where the track had been cleared. It was very steep , slow going down but at least we could see where were meant to go and did not have push through the scrub , which is tiring.
The sight of the old Helipad was very welcome indeed. I dropped my pack and headed off to get WATER!. I was soaked through with sweat and needed WATER!. Only one other fellow was camping there . It was 6 pm. What a long day. Down at Bogong saddle creek 6 females had just come down the Quartz ridge and were also stocking up on WATER. The old helipad was going to be tent city that night .
We set up and cooked . Just as it became dark an intense electrical storm struck and it began to rain dogs and frogs. I was in my tent digesting a large pot of food and playing the Beatles on my backpacker guitar.The Lightning was very close, only three counts away , the thunder followed.
The next day it still looked very unsettled and the forecast for Mt. Bogong was not good with rain and thunder coming that day.We decided not to chance it up the Quartz ridge and the exposed summit and went back to Roper's hut along Timm's spur.
The Big River crossing was knee deep. I got a leech on my leg :-o .
The river was flowing well. We had planned to go to CC hut and cross Big River at the bottom of the T spur but with more thunder and rain coming that didn't seem like a good idea . The scenery on both the Grey Hills and Timm's spur was excellent. We did not see anybody on the Grey Hills but Timm's spur had a few people coming and going on it.
We finally reached Roper's hut just as the heavens opened. It became very windy , foggy and wet . A chap who had walked the AAWT from the ACT to Roper's hut thus far said he thought my decision to skip Mt. Bogong was wise.
We dried out some gear and I went and put up my tent. The others piked out of camping out in the rain and slept in the hut that night.
It rained non stop all of Thursday and Friday night . The T spur Big River crossing seemed like something worth skipping with all that rain.
The next day was clear and my tent dried out in the driving wind , which blew the clouds away.
We headed for Johnston's hut for an early lunch .The camp site there was full of other walkers from many other clubs.
After lunch and spotting some snow on Mt. Nelse 's south face we went to put up our tents at Fitzgerald's hut. We saw some wild horses along the way and the view along the way of Mt. Wills was rather good .
I was knackered and went to get water. Once I was set up I went with another party member to visit Kelly's hut. The other two went down track 107 to find the hut ruins at about 1500 M. elevation. They returned later with photos of the hut ruins on a mob. ph.
I went off to sleep by about 8.30 pm.
The next morning we packed up in bright sunshine.When I went to fetch water for breakfast at day break , I saw the clouds in the valley , like I was on a plane above the clouds.WOW!.
We made good progress back to the cars at the BHP road. The main route near Mt.Nelse was very busy with walkers unlike the Grey Hills.
That was a great 5 day hike which concluded on 31/12/17. After we parted company I went up over the Tawonga Gap and up the Stoney tops track to the seasonal closure gate. The track up there was rough for my RAV 4 but OK in dry weather. The Ford at Dungey's track was also not too deep for my RAV 4.
I will go back soon and walk the rest of the route up the Northern Razorback to Mt. Feathertop ' s summit and back in a day.
Last edited by paidal_chalne_vala on Thu 04 Jan, 2018 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby ofuros » Thu 04 Jan, 2018 2:43 am

Enjoyed your trip report, pcv.
Mountains view are good for my soul...& getting to them is good for my waistline !
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby neilmny » Thu 04 Jan, 2018 3:00 am

Nicely done PCV.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Fri 19 Jan, 2018 3:36 pm

https://www.ski.com.au/xf/threads/bogon ... st-3483310

Some photos can be seen here from that trip.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby Xplora » Fri 19 Jan, 2018 6:33 pm

paidal_chalne_vala wrote: We made it to Spion Kopje for morning snacks (and a rest ) by 11 am. Our perambulation was including a photo stop at the nameless peak which is 1893 M. near Warby Corner, the third highest point in Victoria.

As indicated in the ski forum where you posted the report this place is known to most a Maisie's knoll. I think it should be officially recognised as such due to her conservation efforts in the area. Perhaps you could speak to Di on the VNPA council as she also sits on the place name council.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby neilmny » Sat 20 Jan, 2018 9:05 am

Does it sometimes get referred to as Mt Nelse West? Is that the one?
Maisie's Knoll sounds like a good name.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby OG1 » Thu 01 Feb, 2018 5:37 pm

Hi.
Is anyone able to advise me of the water situation at Ropers Hut Please?
I'm planning to camp there late February.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Thu 01 Feb, 2018 6:22 pm

There is always water flowing in the stream behind Roper's hut on Duane Spur. I have never ever seen it run dry.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby OG1 » Thu 01 Feb, 2018 9:20 pm

Thanks heaps paidal_chalne_vala
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Thu 01 Feb, 2018 10:29 pm

The High Country huts are usually situated somewhere sheltered and not far from water.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby Xplora » Fri 16 Mar, 2018 7:04 am

This report (and some other comments posted on the ski forum) intrigued me enough to revisit the Grey Hills to see how much it had overgrown since we were last there. There are a couple of places where the track is thin or non-existent. The first is from Spion Kopje track to the start of the Grey Hills. There is no track and this is marked on some maps. Coming from Warby corner you walk to a point where you can see the start of the Grey Hills ridge line and the obvious gully to your right which is the start of Whiterock creek. Keeping that gully on your right you make your way across the low scrub and cross a small creek which still had some water. This is the last water before Bogong Creek Saddle. The track gets faint again about the time the waterfalls and cascades come into view and walking off it to get photos will mean you lose it entirely. This is not a problem. The Grey Hills is a ridge line walk and if you look ahead you can see which way you have to go. The first descent is steep and fallen leaves makes it a bit slippery but it reminded me of walking down Mt. Buggery. Quite rocky and more like walking down steps at times. The track is pretty easy to follow from there to Grey Hills Knob and down. There are two small knolls between Grey Hills Knob and Mt. Arthur and I think on the second knoll the track appear to traverse to the west around the knob. This is a false track and likely worn more because people go down and back. You need to go up and over. Once on Mt. Arthur you come to a big clearing which would make a very nice dry camp. It is tempting to walk down the clearing to find the track as it seems many others have in the past. The proper track goes straight ahead as you approach the clearing. We found a couple more spots where the scrub had overgrown the track and made the track hard to find but taking the wrong one became obvious in a minute and backtracking to where we knew the track to be and having a good look around soon put us on the right path. The worst of the scrub is from Mt. Arthur down for about 1km and from then on it had been cleared. We left Watchbed creek at 8:30am and arrived at Bogong Creek Saddle 3:30pm. I think it was about 11am when we hit the Grey Hills from Spione Kopje after a short break for morning tea. The Grey Hills is like a mini Crosscut with excellent views until the descent from Mt. Arthur. If you are the sort of person who likes well formed, marked and open tracks then it is not for you and you should stick to Timms spur as your approach to Quartz ridge. If time is your consideration then Timms again. There are a few spots where a novice may make the wrong choice of track but this is really only around Mt. Arthur. Until then you just need to follow the ridgeline. If you find yourself scrub bashing with no track then go back to where you know the track to be and start again. There was one place where the scrub over the track caused me to lose sight of it completely but only for a few metres. Some track marking and clearing could be beneficial if more people with less experience decide to give it a go after reading trip reports. I happen to be meeting with the ranger in charge of these matters this morning to discuss other projects so I will raise it with him and find out if there are any plans to do more work on it in the future. The Grey Hills is a bushwalker's walk and well worth doing but it will take a bit longer than Timms Spur. We did not walk particularly fast and stopped often for photos plus lunch so our time of 4.5 hrs would be a good estimate of the average experienced walker looking to take in the views. I am sure it could be done quicker by someone fitter and carrying less.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby Xplora » Sat 17 Mar, 2018 6:46 am

Some brief discussion yesterday about the Grey Hills and it was agreed some further discussion will be had with BW Vic (who were involved in the clearing of the lower section of Mt Arthur) to see if they would like to add some markings to some areas of the track around Mt. Arthur. The track is a class E which means it is defined by use. Overgrown areas, where the track is less visible, can be marked so new tracks or false tracks are not worn and the right track is defined more through increased traffic. There are only a few small sections which pose any real problem. There may be some limited clearing of scrub to make the track more visible but there is no intention currently to cut a path such has been done on the lower km Mt. Arthur to Bogong Creek saddle. Some tracks need to remain a little wilder than others. That is my personal view and also the view of the PV ranger I met with. Even saying that, the Grey Hills is not an ordeal testing the bravest and fittest and any upgrades would only be as far as necessary to prevent people less accustomed to this type of walking from getting into trouble once out of their depth. Similar attention has been given to Paling spur. Much was accomplished in our 2 hour meet yesterday and all will be of benefit to those using various parts of the Park. The big wigs from Melbourne were visiting as well but I was not in a position to speak with them. Not sure what the brief was but it included many aspects of the Park including horse and weed management. Got stuck behind them for a while driving home and they are so slow. I think the narrow and windy road scared them. It was interesting talking about budgets and money and you would be gob smacked to know how little they get to keep things running. Fortunately this year there was a windfall in that the toilets did not need a helicopter evac. First time in a very long time and it appears summer visitation was low this year. This means there is a bit more money for other things and it is being put to good use.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Sun 18 Mar, 2018 7:54 pm

It is interesting that Paling spur will be given some attention. I plan to walk that route in green season 2018-19.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby Xplora » Mon 19 Mar, 2018 4:44 am

paidal_chalne_vala wrote:It is interesting that Paling spur will be given some attention. I plan to walk that route in green season 2018-19.


Not much attention. Some signage at the bottom to warn people and some track marking in places. No clearing.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Mon 19 Mar, 2018 6:02 pm

I have always assumed Paling spur was a map and compass bush bash but that has never stopped me bushwalking before.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby Drew » Thu 22 Mar, 2018 2:25 pm

Glad to read this report on Grey Hills. Might include it in a Bogong Circuit over Easter but my partner (who may or may not come) is rather averse to scrub bashing. Sounds like it's not too bad though and a more interesting route than Timm's Spur.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Thu 22 Mar, 2018 7:37 pm

Timm's spur is scenic and quite easy walking compared with the Grey Hills. The Grey Hills are a bit wilder and a bit tougher.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby north-north-west » Fri 23 Mar, 2018 9:43 am

Timms is more interesting when you follow the ridgeline rather than the firetrail.
Still prefer Grey Hills, but.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby Lophophaps » Fri 23 Mar, 2018 10:06 am

Paling Spur is generally light scrub, with a series of on-off pads or tracks. Just follow the compass or GPS. Towards the top there's a track across a lovely big clearing in a shallow saddle to the main ridge between SEC and MacNamaras. There's many horse tracks on this main ridge. All that Paling Spur needs is markers, if that. Very few people walk on Paling Spur, and in my view marking or cutting is a low priority.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby Xplora » Fri 23 Mar, 2018 8:53 pm

north-north-west wrote:Timms is more interesting when you follow the ridgeline rather than the firetrail.
Still prefer Grey Hills, but.

Agreed. Follow a road or a bushwalking track and maybe have to use your brain. The only reason for any markers on these less used tracks is to keep those who have less experience headed in the right direction. With so much more information available there will be people who get out of their depth and safety for all is important. A few markers will not detract from the experience I hope.

Lophophaps wrote:Paling Spur is generally light scrub, with a series of on-off pads or tracks. Just follow the compass or GPS. Towards the top there's a track across a lovely big clearing in a shallow saddle to the main ridge between SEC and MacNamaras. There's many horse tracks on this main ridge. All that Paling Spur needs is markers, if that. Very few people walk on Paling Spur, and in my view marking or cutting is a low priority.

I think that is the extent of the plan and the thinking.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby NickPom » Tue 03 Jul, 2018 3:08 pm

Thanks for the trip report PCV. These things are invaluable when planning to walk somewhere new.
I'm heading out that way on snowshoes in a couple of weeks with lots of snow around this year.
I'm planning Falls Ck car park via Healthy spur to Edmondson or Johnston hut for day one. I haven't been to either hut before. Which would be your choice given the condition of the hut itself and the surrounding camp area?

Day 2 we will carry on and take Spion Kopje Spur, expecting to camp on the spur somewhere. (I'd like to overnight at roper hut but it would cause the 3rd day to be potentially too far depending on snow depth and ease of navigation on the descent)

Day 3 continue on the spur and drop down to Howman Gap, where we will have left a second car (on valley road track somewhere before the seasonal closure gate, I hope). I can see from the map that the descent to Howman Gap is steep. Hopefully not too rocky as I find that's tricky in snow.

Can anyone tell me where the snow chains sign is on the road up to Falls Ck that makes it a legal requirement to carry them? Or, more specifically if the car left at Howman Gap will need to be carrying them? Clearly the one left up at Falls Ck will have to have them.

Thanks!
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby neilmny » Tue 03 Jul, 2018 4:15 pm

From just outside Mt.Beauty, there is a sign as you head past the golf course saying you are required to carry chains. All cars.
I think but I'm not 100% sure the actual "thou shalt not go past this point" is at the single lane bridge near Bogong Village.
I always carry chains so haven't had to take exact notice of where the point is.

The Vicroads declared hazardous area description is - The Bogong High Plains Road from Mount Beauty via Falls Creek to the Omeo Highway.
The fine is up to 20 penalty units and a penalty unit is $161.19 - so potentially $3323.80.
https://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/find-le ... alty-units

It's simple Nick don't go past Mt Beauty without them for your bank account's sake, your safety and other road users safety.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby Xplora » Wed 04 Jul, 2018 6:31 am

neilmny wrote: is at the single lane bridge near Bogong Village.


It is a narrow bridge but there is a centre line and I have passed other cars on it. Would not pass a truck on it though. Most people treat it like a single lane bridge which it is probably much safer.

Regarding chains. Yes both cars will need them. Regarding the walk, Edmonsons hut is bigger as Johnsons has only the refuge area available unless you hire out the main hut. Likely to have people at both. Both have good areas to pitch a tent. Edmonsons will put you closer to your day 2 as there will be no need to walk back to the road on the same track. Just head north up the hill as you clear the snowgums near the hut and join the road. I can't see you needing an overnight stay on Spione Kopje unless you don't get started until the afternoon. Maybe an issue crossing Rocky Valley Creek (branch of East Kiewa River) near Howmans but that is more of a problem during the melt. Not advisable after a rain event that will produce any melt and I can't really help with info on that as it is very hard for me to get to this time of year. Try and get a lift back up to Falls to collect the other car and avoid the additional entry fee. Remember not to snowshoe on the groomed tracks unless they are iced up hard. Keep to one side if you need to walk on them and single file otherwise you may have some skate skier give you an accidental whack with a pole.

My gut feeling is your trip needs a bit more thought. Spione Kopje is nice but if you are looking for another day then you may want to consider other options. If 2 days is enough then the walk should be good. Maybe a check of the creek before you start if you have time and then have a back up plan. e.g. Heathy Spur to Fitz's hut then to Ropers and back to Falls. A little boring maybe but a good back up. Or if the creek was good to cross you could backtrack from Ropers to Spione Kopje and down to Howmans to add another day. Fitz's to Ropers is easy to do in a day, notwithstanding poor conditions or deep, soft snow.

If any of your cars are diesel then make sure it has Alpine diesel or additive. Mt. Beauty sells it but you should be near empty before you put it in otherwise it will dilute in which case you put some additive in.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby neilmny » Wed 04 Jul, 2018 8:33 am

Xplora wrote:
neilmny wrote: is at the single lane bridge near Bogong Village.


It is a narrow bridge but there is a centre line and I have passed other cars on it....


Wow that would have been an interesting moment :shock:
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby Lophophaps » Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:47 am

I saw something quite interesting. Just above the bridge is a longish straight section of road, one of the few such sections above Mount Beauty. I've seen cars race past buses at that section, going towards Mount Beauty. The creek is a fair way down, quite steep slopes on moth sides. We were coming back from Falls and saw a car, right way up, facing Mount Beauty, on the true left bank of the creek, to the left of the bridge. We surmised that he was racing past a bus or slow car and cut in too quickly, leaving the Falls Creek side of the road and reaching the far side, no bridge needed. The rails were intact. Our considered view was that he was delayed and probably had a laundry cost.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby NickPom » Wed 04 Jul, 2018 10:27 pm

Many Thanks for the replies and input.
I have spoken to the folks at Howman Gap YMCA about the creek crossing and they say it's crossable before the melt as you said, and I will check it out the day prior to starting.
I have always carried chains when required, even though it has often irked me to do so when the road to, say bawbaw is dry and it's a sunny day. I will continue to do so as I'm generally a law abiding type.

Thanks for the input about length and difficulty. I'd like to go from Edmonsons hut to Ropers (2), and Ropers to Howman Gap (3), I guess I'll see how we are going for time when we get to the Spion intersection on day 2. With all the snow predicted this weekend, and potentially warmer weather after it could be slow going, or it could have gained a nice crispy crust who knows. A few years ago it took us 1.5 days to walk the razorback from Diamantina hut to Federation hut, in snowshoes because the snow was 1.5-2m and we often sank up to our waists, so I always consider slow going to be an option and am happy to be pleasantly surprised. :)
Yes, my vehicle is a diesel and has 2 fuel tanks so I usually run one tank down low so I can put enough alpine diesel in it for the trip up and back :)
It's funny but they never mention different types of Diesel in europe where it gets just as cold. Perhaps the whole supply changes over the seasons and they just never tell the public.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby Xplora » Thu 05 Jul, 2018 7:50 am

neilmny wrote:
Xplora wrote: Wow that would have been an interesting moment :shock:


You would be surprised how much space there is on that bridge, certainly enough for two cars as long as both understand where their left wheels are on the road and one does not cross the centre line. Parts of BHP road on the other side of the dam are narrower and vehicles pass all the time. Passing is not overtaking in case some are confused. It is when you go past a vehicle travelling toward you.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby neilmny » Thu 05 Jul, 2018 8:03 am

Yes passing is understood. An overtake, unless the other vehicle was broken down or something, would be insanity.
You've definitely got more trust in your fellow road user than I do Xplora. I'll keep this in mind for future reference.
Most vehicles, or really, all that I have met there. stop and wait. Maybe it's an optical illusion but it looks very skinny.

Off topic even further....the new "passing emergency vehicles with lights flashing"refers to ÿou must pass at 40km.....a boo boo.....should refer to overtaking.
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Re: Roper's hut/Spion Kopje/Grey Hills/ Timm's Spur etc. Dec

Postby Xplora » Thu 05 Jul, 2018 9:07 am

neilmny wrote:Yes passing is understood. An overtake, unless the other vehicle was broken down or something, would be insanity.
You've definitely got more trust in your fellow road user than I do Xplora. I'll keep this in mind for future reference.
Most vehicles, or really, all that I have met there. stop and wait. Maybe it's an optical illusion but it looks very skinny.

Off topic even further....the new "passing emergency vehicles with lights flashing"refers to ÿou must pass at 40km.....a boo boo.....should refer to overtaking.


I think you are right Neil about the illusion. The approach angle on the downside is not good and people tend to run wide on the left hand which makes those going down a little cautious. If it were dangerous for two vehicles then Vic Roads would stop it. From what I have seen, most people try to keep away from the left edge. It could be human instinct. I having driven trucks in Sydney during peak hour and have had the left mirror inches away from the clearway sign and the right mirror inches away from another trucks left mirror.

Good pick up on the legislation. The terminology is in error. You will notice some bridges will have signs No passing or Overtaking. Two completely different things.

Diesel distribution in Australia does change in cold areas and refineries have to, by law, provide diesel with an appropriate gel point to colder areas. There are two categories of cold climate diesel. One is called Highland diesel and the other Alpine. Deliveries of these usually starts in May so it depends on the turnover of product as to how diluted it will be but we have been using Mt. Beauty diesel since May (until the road closed) and have had no issues with cold starts on any of our 4 vehicles. The farm ute needs a new starter motor so it gets parked on a hill and it would be the worst in the cold. Good idea Nick with the 2 tanks. Hope the trip is good which ever way it goes. Ed hut to Ropers is not a long day but you could side trip without heavy packs out along Timms Spur of Duanne (or both) but not go too far down the hill. Some good views.

Always better to wait a couple of days after a good dump for things to settle. I think your Razorback experience will serve you well. It is a bugger when you are up to your knees in fresh snow with snowshoes. Take them off and you sink further but you don't have to lift all the snow that has fallen on the snowshoe. Hard to know which is best sometimes. I broke a snowshoe last year and post holed for hours. Not fun.
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