First overnighter - Crosscut Saw

[rattler]

Hi,
In the next 2 weeks I'm planning to do the 31 km 2-day hike from Upper Howqua Camping Area to Mt Howitt then up to Mt Speculation and back. This is my first overnighter so I have a few questions.

I have PLB, GPS, compass, map, and waterproof over-clothing.

1. Do I have to plan to for the possibility of snow? If so, before I go shopping is getting a 4-seasons sleeping bag and tent the main thing, apart from making sure I have waterproof clothing and pack? Anything else crucial?

2. I plan to bring 5L of water across 3 containers, and water-sanitising tablets in case I come across suitable water. Is there any potable water available that doesn't need treatment, and does that sound like enough?

3. What obvious things have I not thought of?

Thanks
Dave

[Xplora]

I would not worry about snow. It could snow any time but it will not lay for long. I seriously doubt it will anyway. More important to keep a watch on the forecast and if conditions are bad then don't go. I did it a few summers back and it rained hard for a day or so that would be more of a concern. A 4 season tent is more about wind and snow load and a 4 season bag will be too hot. Once again check the forecast for wind but a 3 season tent should be fine and pitch in a sheltered area.
Once you leave the Howqua river I would not count on any water until you get to Camp Creek which is down the hill from Spec. The water there is reliable but it is your choice (in my view) to treat it or not. 5 litres of water is a lot to drag up that hill and over the Crosscut but it could be necessary. You can divert to MacAlister Springs to fill up at the spring and maybe doing that would be worth it instead of lugging a huge weight up the spur. I am hoping you are fit with some experience walking this kind of country. I am also hoping you have some navigation skills without relying on an electronic device. You will need some clothing that will keep you alive in bad weather but no need to overdo it. A thermal, warm jacket, long pants, long sleeve shirt and a raincoat would be sufficient. If you overload your pack then you may have some trouble reaching your goal in 2 days and I would suggest a 20kg absolute max including water but without knowing your size and fitness that could be less. Flies will be a problem.

My gut feeling is this would not be my choice for a first overnighter for you and probably better if you did this walk with someone else as well. It is a great walk and a must do but you want to enjoy it and make your mistakes on something a bit easier. We all make gear mistakes when we start out and it can take a while to refine it so it would be better not to make a big mistake on this walk. You do not have an idea of how far you can walk on easy terrain with a full pack let alone in summer heat up and over these mountains. You should also get an idea of how much water you use in a day. My suggestion would be to head for the Bogong High Plains for a trial and there are many walks which are scenic and not as demanding. Walking at altitude, even though it is not Nepal, will also sap some energy. I am not saying your idea is not doable, just erring on the safer side until you get a bit more experience.

[Lophophaps]

Rattler, if gear is given care it will last for years. My pack has been used a lot and was bought in 1983. The compass is older, 1980. So you need to take some time getting the right gear. I spent about three months looking at a blizzard jacket and a sleeping mat, and I have quite a bit of BW experience.

One challenge with the walk as outlined is the lack of viable escape routes. There are spurs going west from the Crosscut, but they are steep and may not have tracks. Another is the lack of water. There are just three places that have water - Howqua River, Mac Springs and Camp Creek on Speculation. Mac Springs may not be running. It should be, but it's been a bit marginal for a while. There is another creek, may be running. Coming off Howitt towards Mac Springs the ridge narrows. On the right is a gully, maybe 70 metres away. Traverse into here, possible water. Finally, this is a pretty tough first walk. Howitt Spur has a lot of climbing, and the Crosscut is bumps all the way to Spec. Out and back does not appeal to me that much. Spec may be too far for one day from the Upper Howqua.

I agree with Xplorer about the Bogong High Plains, which seems to me to be much better. You could drive to Pretty Valley and do a circuit. Mainly flat, some nice peaks like Jaithmathang, plenty of water, good sheltered campsites, and it's easy to go cross-country. Use the high plains to see how you go for climbing and distance.

I suggest that you take the gear as Xplorer suggests.

[rattler]

Hi,
Thank you for those two in-depth, considered replies. I will take your advice re equipment, and also try to plan a walk in Bogong High Plains instead.

I didn't mention that I am 37, in good shape and fit, and have no problem climbing, but I am inexperienced with navigation.

Thanks
Dave

[rattler]

Hi again,
Looks like Bogong high plains is near Falls creek, about 5hours drive from Melbourne.

I'm coming from eastern suburbs of Melbourne, can anyone recommend anything closer? Mansfield is about 4 hours which is why I picked it initially.

I know it's vague but I want something reasonably challenging fitness wise, nothing toooo easy!

Thanks
Dave

[Strider]

Hi again,
Looks like Bogong high plains is near Falls creek, about 5hours drive from Melbourne.

I'm coming from eastern suburbs of Melbourne, can anyone recommend anything closer? Mansfield is about 4 hours which is why I picked it initially.

I know it's vague but I want something reasonably challenging fitness wise, nothing toooo easy!

Thanks
Dave

Hi Dave. I can highly recommend Baw Baw NP as a great location for beginners. I took my four year old son for an overnighter at Phillack Saddle and found it a great introduction for the uninitiated, good variability of vegetation etc to keep things interesting, and easily accessed from Baw Baw Village - perhaps two hours drive for you without traffic.

[rattler]

Sorry for the spam . I found this Mt Bogong hike, would this route be suitable as a trial hike? Seems straightforward and I guess I can setup camp by one of the huts near the summit.

https://www.trailhiking.com.au/mt-bogon ... case-spur/

[neilmny]

What type of vehicle do you have to access where you start Rattler?

[rattler]

Rear wheel drive sedan

[Lophophaps]

Dave, it's hardly spam. Bogong is a serious walk from any direction. A negative is that once at Cleve Cole, the weather may be such as to prevent going back. It's an exposed few hours from CC Hut to the bushline on either Eskdale or Staircase. Also, Staircase is major up, one of the biggest in Victoria, about 1200 metres. Bogong is best left for those with a few harder walks completed.

Baw Baw Plateau is much closer to the eastern suburbs, either the ski resort (much bending roads), Erica car park or St Gwinear car park (maybe 15 kilometres of good dirt road). The latter is nice from the outset. If you want a challenge, start at Walhalla and go along the Australian Alps Walking Track. This is a climb similar to Staircase but with places to bail out. Can someone please post the height gain to Mount Erica?

Baw Baw water and campsites abound. There's plenty of tracks on Baw Baw. Going off track is possible in many places, just watch out for bogs and drop bears.

[Xplora]

concur with above. Mt.Bogong is about the same as Bogong High Plains to drive to the start.

[neilmny]

Maybe a piece of this one? https://www.trailhiking.com.au/buller-huts-trail/

1. Eight mile flat
2. Bluff Hut
3. via Ritchies Hut back to Eight Mile and so on.

[rattler]

Ahh, I thought Mt Bogong was part of Bogong High Plains.

Okay, Baw Baw is probably good for a trial before I go full Alpine

I'll start at Mt St Gwinear Carpark, and camp near Mt Erica (or maybe Mt Whitelaw)

Thanks for everyone's input!
Dave

[Lophophaps]

Bogong stands more or less alone. Coming from the high plains it's about 900 metres up from the bottom of T Spur, and to get there is about a day of walking and a river crossing. The approach via Quartz Ridge has less climbing, still about the same time from the car, witha long exposed ridge to the summit.

On Baw Baw you can camp nearly anywhere. Maybe stop at the saddle NW of St Phillack and do a day trip to Whitlaw. Mustering Flat is nice to camp, but being lower could be colder. If going to Mustering Flat the best way may be to go over St Gwinear then NW into the creek and over the saddle, drops you into Mustering Flat. The one time I went from the saddle NW of St Phillack to Mustering Flat I vowed never to return - steep and scrubby.

[GBW]

Can someone please post the height gain to Mount Erica?

O'Sheas Mill to Mt Erica = 1125m climb according to JC's book.

[Lophophaps]

O'Sheas Mill to Mt Erica = 1125m climb according to JC's book.

Thanks. That's nearly as big as Staircase, and may be the biggest ascent on the AAWT. Taylors Crossing to Johnnies Top is about 1200 metres, but I'm unsure if this would be done in a day. It's 23 kilometres.

[DavidB]

Thats right about the climb to Mt Erica. Its the single biggest climb on the AAWT. There is more climbing from Taylors to Johnnies Top but there are a few level bits on the way.

[GBW]

Ahh, I thought Mt Bogong was part of Bogong High Plains.

Okay, Baw Baw is probably good for a trial before I go full Alpine

I'll start at Mt St Gwinear Carpark, and camp near Mt Erica (or maybe Mt Whitelaw)

Thanks for everyone's input!
Dave

I think its a nice walk from Mt Erica carpark up through The Mushroom Rocks to Talbots Hut site. It's not a very hard climb but should give you an indication of how you're travelling. If you've still got the energy then continue to St Gwinear or Phillack Saddle for some views...both have water nearby. There may or may not be many people around depending on the weather.

If you want something more spectacular than Baw Baw then Federation Hut/Feathertop via the Bungalow Spur would be my choice...if the weather's good. You can always bail out.

I was like you and jumped straight in like a bull at a gate doing Feathertop via the Bon Accord. It was easily the hardest walk I've ever done...totally over-prepared and overloaded and should have picked something not so challenging ...but we got there still smiling after a lot of pain. Stripped about 5kg of gear after that effort.

You'll learn a lot.

[rattler]

Thanks I'll try that route from Mt Erica car park then.

I didn't see Talbot Hut Site on the little map on the "Mt Baw Baw National Park Visitor Guide". For something like this is it worth getting a proper map, and if so is there a shop in Melbourne that sells hard copies, or a good place for digital downloads I can print myself?
Cheers
Dave

[Xplora]

I was like you and jumped straight in like a bull at a gate doing Feathertop via the Bon Accord. It was easily the hardest walk I've ever done...totally over-prepared and overloaded and should have picked something not so challenging ...but we got there still smiling after a lot of pain. Stripped about 5kg of gear after that effort.

You'll learn a lot.

Someone should start a topic 'the mistakes we made when we first started'. Should get some good laughs but I think many, including me, would relate to yours. Pretty good having a brains trust like this place to get some things sorted but nothing beats trial and error. We are off again tomorrow on a short trip with a good friend and I keep thinking I must have forgotten something as my pack is under 15kg. I hope to hear of Rattler's experience soon and the lessons learned.

[Lophophaps]

Someone should start a topic 'the mistakes we made when we first started'. Should get some good laughs but I think many, including me, would relate to yours. Pretty good having a brains trust like this place to get some things sorted but nothing beats trial and error. We are off again tomorrow on a short trip with a good friend and I keep thinking I must have forgotten something as my pack is under 15kg. I hope to hear of Rattler's experience soon and the lessons learned.

If I was to contribute to such a thread there would be no room for others.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I walked up to Mt. Erica in August 2017 in deep snow. It was a good day out in snow shoes from the Mt. Erica car park.There is sometimes water available in the Northern Gully of the Stanley name spur camp site about 1 km straight down from the Cross Cut Saw.It was flowing in November.Mac. Springs is flowing according a friend who was up there very recently.
The Bogong High Plains are suitable for newbies.Often you are following a pole line or an old fire trail to the next hut.

[Lamont]

G'day, I just saw this post and thought people might want to know about water above Baw Baw on the AAWT. I was there 3 days ago overnight and there is water at Talbot ruin and also down the track about 100m on the left slightly off the main track when you head down to St Gwinear from the AAWT T junction. They had 28mm overnight so can't hurt more water stocks. Was nippy overnight, app temp below 0C. Carried 11 kgs including 2 litres of water which I barely had to use, just camelled up at each stop. I agree, would not camp at MRocks. I camped up near the T junction about 1550m and saw 3 people in a group the whole time I was up there. Very nice. Funny thing- 1 and 3/4 hours up to Talbot ruin from carpark. 1 hour down. I am planning on visiting again in the next 10 or so days.

[rattler]

Thanks for the info. I'm heading up tomorrow morning, will be interesting to see what I find after all the rain.

Got the pack to 18kg, can't see how to get it any lighter! Turfed the 2x500g tinned meals already and replaced with freeze-dried!

Will put up a trip report if I survive.
Dave

[Lophophaps]

Taking 18 kilograms is a tad much but okay for a jaunt as you describe. It is possible to do much better than freeze dried, a discussion for when you return, perhaps. I hope the sun shines. If you reach Mount McDonald you have gone too far.

[rattler]

Hi guys

I survived! I didn't get lost! I didn't hit Mount MacDonald! Thanks for everyone's advice.

quick trip report here: viewtopic.php?f=46&t=27110

Mistakes I made/things I learnt included:
- ducking under a spiderweb and being pulled off balance by my pack.

- I should have spent a lot more time on youtube or at a shop learning how to adjust my backpack. I managed to bruise my collarbones and hips, and spent a large part of the trip pulling this strap and that, trying to get the pack to sit nicely on my hips. This is on my todo list for next time.

- I can walk around 4km/hr including stops, even on a steep ascent (at least, the ascent to Mt Erica seemed pretty dang steep to me). Good to know for planning future trips.

- I only used half of the stuff I had in my 18kg pack. Will swap out my warm clothing for thermals next time. Didn't need things like candles, knife and fork, extra plate.

- If I'm gonna stir-fry on the Trangia again, I need a scourer or something to clean the pot.

- Need to figure out a good way to collect water for boiling (or else to filter directly from stream into bottle). I had to juggle water between my two bottles to separate my packed-in water, and the creek water I intended to boil. Not sure what the most efficient way is to refill drinking water bottles, boiling takes a while.

- Don't bring too much whiskey on a solo trip. You're bound to drink it all on the grounds of reducing weight and passing the time in camp

Thanks for all the tips! Am I ready for Crosscut Saw?!?!

Dave

[Lophophaps]

I am so pleased that you did not reach McDonald. Getting there in two days from Erica Car Park means that the AAWT would be maybe a week. In my case it would be a weak. The things you learned from this trip are par for the course. Most of us have been there, done that. I'm tending towards doing a few more trips to learn a bit more about gear, technique and yourself. Howitt is a big climb with limited water, not the place to be with limited experience. In my view it's better to wait a while and enjoy it than go there too soon and strike issues such as you describe. Howitt will be there in a few months.

I carry one teaspoon, a spare in case the teaspoon is lost, a mug, a bill and billy grips. There's a small battery lantern, lives on the apex of the tent. Clean the pot with soil well away from creeks and rivers. Rinse a few times. I have two wine casks of 4 litres each, can use for okay water and water waiting for the treatment to finish. There's any number of ways to carry water. Being off balance is usual for me. I would not say unbalanced.

I've only treated water in walks near Sydney, where the quality is quite poor. Elsewhere I don't bother. Wild water away from huts and popular campsites seems to me to be okay. Note that agencies like Parks Victoria have signs "Not for drinking" or the like on tanks. The reason is CYA in case someone is ill.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I use a pump up water filter that connects directly to my 3 camel back bladder. Water in the middle of nowhere is usually safe to drink. If people or animals have been near by then I filter the water.So at Big River Bridge campsite I refilled my water supplies using a filter. At The Quartz Ridge trail head I have never filtered that water that flows under the fire trail and comes out of the pipe into the stream.
As LOPS says do some more easy over nighters and then consider tougher hikes where weather and water issues could become a worry.

[Xplora]

Well done Dave. Getting to Howitt Plains carpark will take you the same amount of time or longer than getting to Falls Creek. How about a loop from Pretty Valley to Dibbins Hut then down to Blairs Hut and up Westons spur then back to the car. Take a map, compass and GPS if you have one and practise some navigation. Walking solo is also about making good decisions, particularly when things are not going right or the weather has turned and in the mountains that could be the difference between getting home safe or being carried out. I nearly always carry a hip flask of Scotch. These days I have to share but if solo it is better to portion out before you go. One of the things to sort out will be food and how to cook it. We dehydrate our own meals now but if you go the store bought then get a 2 serve. Fresh food weighs a lot but is often good on the first night.
Triangia's are pretty slow to boil water so something simple for water treating would be on the list. If you can be sure of clear water then UV is a good option. You can get water bottles which have the UV light in the lid or a steripen. Tablets and other chemical treatments take a couple of hours to be effective and the taste is not great. I used to carry some micropure tablets but rarely used them so I don't bother anymore. I think you did pretty good with weight for your first trip.
Summer in the mountains may see some snow (as it did over last weekend) and it was bitterly cold because of the wind. My ears started to ache. I always carry my gortex raincoat and use that as a windstopper or extra layer if cold. A thermal, long sleeve shirt and light fleece pullover will keep you alive under the raincoat. As the season progresses the kit will change. April in the mountains is very unpredictable and from then on I go to winter gear.

[rattler]

Thanks for the replies, oh no you're getting be pumped to plan my next trip already!

Sounds like a pumpup water filter for my osprey bladder is the go.

In regard to food, it's tempting to look at purely cold options and ditch the stove/fuel. The only problem is my coffee addiction..