Packsaddlers to Kowmung?

[trailwalker]

Does anyone know how to get to the Kowmung and Cox's junction?
When i was a kid, my uncles took me fishing in that section of the Cox's River and i would like to take the walk again, but with my uncle no longer with us, im not sure of the track.
From what i remember, we took a fire trail somewhere near Narrow Neck, down towards Wild Dog Mountains and came out at the Cox's River maybe 500m - 1k above the Kowmung Junction. The walk took about 6 or 7 hours with 2 oldies and an 11yo with a few stops on the way.

If anyone could help me find the track or give some directions, i'd be very appreciative.

[FatCanyoner]

Yes, you would have followed the fire trail that runs down White Dog Ridge. If you grab the Jamison and Jenolan maps you'll be able to follow the marked fire trails from Green Gully via Medlow Gap.
The actual junction of the Kowmung and Cox is in the dam exclusion zone. I'm pretty sure it would be illegal to fish there.

[trailwalker]

Thanks FatCanyoner

Do you know how far up past the Junction the exclusion zone goes?
I tryed googling it and couldnt find anything.

[kanangra]

Not very far at all.

K.

[FatCanyoner]

Do you know how far up past the Junction the exclusion zone goes?

The exclusion zone is marked on the topo maps. If you want to fish the Cox maybe near the Kanangra Ck junction is better. Definitely outside the exclusion zone. No fish is worth an $11,000 fine in my books!

[Allchin09]

Trailwalker,

There are two bodies that will restrict where you can fish, they are the the Water Board and the Fisheries.

For the Cox's river, the Water Board restricts you from accessing the Cox's any further downstream of the where the Kowmung flow in. So technically, in order to access the Kowmung via the Coxs, you are going into the restricted zone for 20 meters or so. That would only be an issue if you were caught in the act of traveling from the Coxs to the Kowmung (which is very unlikely) and if you are really concerned, traveling on the Southern bank of the Coxs river would prevent you from entering the restricted area at all.

The Fisheries on the other hand permit trout fishing in General Trout Waters all year round. The Coxs river and all it's tributaries downstream of Little River (which is upstream of both the Kowmung and Kanangra) is classed as a General Trout Waters. That means you can fish in Kanangra and the Kowmung all year round, and in the Coxs River, as long as you are downstream of where Little River flows in.

As an added note, the Fisheries don't care if you are in the Dam exclusion zone, they only have the authority to fine those who are fishing where fishing is not permitted. The Water Board is the same, they won't fine you for fishing in a no fishing zone, just as long as you are out of the Dam exclusion zone.

Hopefully that helps.

Alex.

[trailwalker]

Thanks everyone, the last thing i want is to cop a fine simply from being unaware...

[tom_brennan]

Do you know how far up past the Junction the exclusion zone goes?
I tryed googling it and couldnt find anything.

Not very far at all.

Hmm

For the Cox's river, the Water Board restricts you from accessing the Cox's any further downstream of the where the Kowmung flow in. So technically, in order to access the Kowmung via the Coxs, you are going into the restricted zone for 20 meters or so. That would only be an issue if you were caught in the act of traveling from the Coxs to the Kowmung (which is very unlikely) and if you are really concerned, traveling on the Southern bank of the Coxs river would prevent you from entering the restricted area at all.

Hmm

You can find the maps at
http://www.sca.nsw.gov.au/publications/publications/86
Roughly speaking the Schedule 1 Catchment (no access) is anywhere within 3km of the high water mark. The high water mark is a short way above the Kowmung/Coxs junction, so anywhere near the junction is going to be some 3km inside the Schedule 1 Catchment! It extends up the Coxs River to somewhere in the Gangerang Reach, and up the Kowmung to somewhere near Ritsons Elbow.

Personally I think it's a bit of a joke considering how much other rubbish is in the catchment. The Coxs drains the farms around Lithgow, run off from all of the towns from Wentworth Falls up flow into Lake Burragorang, and there's cattle grazing in the Schedule 1 land in the Wollondilly.

As an aside, Wilf Hilder used to call the area Grand Country (as in 11 Grand, the fine that you'd get if you were caught). Legend has it that he had been fined more times for illegally walking in the catchment than anyone else!

[FatCanyoner]

I thought it was $11,000 too, but reading that link it seems it's now $44,000!
You're definitely right about the exclusion zone extending well upstream of the Cox / Kowmung junction. And the access near there is only for walking. Fishing, even in that gap, would still be a breach.
And Wilf is right about it being grand country. There's some stunning spots in there if you're willing to risk the fine. Interestingly, someone recently pointed out a loophole to me that I've been mulling over. I may post it at some point.

[climberman]

I thought it was $11,000 too, but reading that link it seems it's now $44,000!

Sort of. The combined weight of every fine you could possibly get, at maximum application, I guess with repeated, wilful, malicious intent and some actual harm and that sort of stuff, can be up to that amount.

[FatCanyoner]

Sort of. The combined weight of every fine you could possibly get, at maximum application, I guess with repeated, wilful, malicious intent and some actual harm and that sort of stuff, can be up to that amount.

No need for any of those things. CMA publication says that is the fine. It's not for some aggravated offence. Simply entering is enough. Like a parking fine, there's no change based on circumstances. Unless you go to court and challenge the offence in its entirety, then you'll be slugged the full amount. It's just a straight X number of penalty units.

[michael_p]

I thought it was $11,000 too, but reading that link it seems it's now $44,000!

Sort of. The combined weight of every fine you could possibly get, at maximum application, I guess with repeated, wilful, malicious intent and some actual harm and that sort of stuff, can be up to that amount.

Climberman is on the money (so to speak ). $44k is what you would probably get for dumping nuclear waste and/or adorable puppies.

Whenever I see this topic come up I always like to link to this little story: http://users.tpg.com.au/users/eirvine/warragamba/story.htm. Great little read about accessing Schedule 1 land.

Cheers,
Michael.

[Allchin09]

Hey,

Having a look at the SCA website, it appears that I have confused the high water mark with the boundary of the Warragamba Restricted access special area!

I do believe however, if you wanted to fish near the junction of the Kowmung and Coxs, that would be permitted, as long as you are within the path of the Mittagong to Katoomba walking track, which crosses in that area!

As for the $44,000 fine, they must have recently increased it. All the signs I've seen still say $11,000, so I'd be keen to argue that you only thought the fine was that amount if you got caught. Also, it does say up to $44,000. I guess that means that you won't necessarily get charged with the whole amount for every offence.

[climberman]

Sort of. The combined weight of every fine you could possibly get, at maximum application, I guess with repeated, wilful, malicious intent and some actual harm and that sort of stuff, can be up to that amount.

No need for any of those things. CMA publication says that is the fine. It's not for some aggravated offence. Simply entering is enough. Like a parking fine, there's no change based on circumstances. Unless you go to court and challenge the offence in its entirety, then you'll be slugged the full amount. It's just a straight X number of penalty units.

Sort of. The 400 penalty units is for a Corporation. It's 200 penalty units for an individual. It's also listed as a maximum penalty. A penalty unit is currently $110 in NSW. They would, I suspect, be most unlikely to slug the occasional walker with a $22,000 fine as it's very poor PR as much as anything.

Disclaimer 1: IANAL
Disclaimer 2: Haven't bothered to see if there's any case law on it.

[climberman]

The CMA's signs have long struck me as bordering the edge of truth.

[tom_brennan]

I do believe however, if you wanted to fish near the junction of the Kowmung and Coxs, that would be permitted, as long as you are within the path of the Mittagong to Katoomba walking track, which crosses in that area!

I doubt it. That corridor is not Schedule 2 Catchment, it's Schedule 1 Catchment with special permission to walk through. You can't fish in Schedule 1 Catchment. See http://www.sca.nsw.gov.au/the-catchment ... cial-areas

No need for any of those things. CMA publication says that is the fine. It's not for some aggravated offence. Simply entering is enough. Like a parking fine, there's no change based on circumstances. Unless you go to court and challenge the offence in its entirety, then you'll be slugged the full amount. It's just a straight X number of penalty units.

Search for "bushwalking" on the SCA site. Most of the links are press releases about fining people and surveillance! I think you'll find for a first offence you'll get fined $300. They actually say "Fines of $300 to $44,000 apply for illegal entry and unauthorised activities." (from 2010, but obviously the max was $44k even back then).

[climberman]

I must say the fishing one was new to me.