Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain & Current Nearby Logging

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Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain & Current Nearby Logging

Postby tastrekker » Thu 01 May, 2008 8:05 pm

Did anyone notice this article on ABC Local Radio News today?

It says the development would be "close to the boundaries of the Walls of Jerusalem and Cradle Mountain-Lake St Clair national parks." A few weeks back I saw a similar article in the Advocate that talked about the same thing. It had a photo of Pine Hut Plain which is the private property at the start of the Lees Paddocks Track.

The radio article said the lodge would have 12 rooms and CB&M seeking input from Forestry Tas, interest groups and the general public before lodging a development application with the Meander Valley Council. I can't see any mention of this on CB&M's website.

Has anyone heard how they are engaging the public? Perhaps the news article is part of their strategy and they are expecting us to give them a call.

If it is indeed Pine Hut Plain, my main interest would be whether they continue to allow bushwalker access through the private land. Strictly speaking, walkers would need to stay right beside the river, well away from the track to remain on public land.
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Re: CB&M Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain???

Postby gorby » Thu 01 May, 2008 8:31 pm

This lodge is definitley intended for Pine Hut plain
Its been in the pipeline for a couple of years after the last owner gained council approval for a tourist type cabin accomodation setup.
I think that it lapsed past the due start date.

The new developers are quite experienced in dealing with councils and the parks department and it was quoted to me by a parks officer that they were the type of developers that they prefer.

The offer to engage the public is a bit hollow as no contact has been made with the three owners of properties upstream.

usually these type of companies have all the groundwork done with councils and government departments before they go public so as they do not have to change their intended plans.
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Re: CB&M Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain???

Postby RiverFly » Sat 03 May, 2008 3:57 pm

I am a professional fishing guide, and the intended lodge is to feature fly fishing, so I know a bit of background on this one from an industry perspective. From the best knowledge i have, a public forum etc will be held in relation to the development. Also, from what I know (and at first glance of the map), the walking track as it exists already travels more or less on public land and therefore will not be affected ( I think its river reserve?).
The interesting thing out of all of this will be how Forestry Tas (who are also a recognised eco-tourism operator with Tahune etc) and CB&M negotiate a working relationship moving forwards as neighbours and fellow eco-tourism operators. FTas has just started harvesting the hillside from south of the green gate at the Pine Hut track, south towards Jacksons Creek. This is half the view visible from the lodge site, so I think the relationship has a long way to go.

The lodge, and any like it on private land, are good if they can get more people into the wild, not affect public access to public lands, and provide income from the valley in addition to that provided from logging to achieve a balance.

Daniel Hackett
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Re: CB&M Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain???

Postby tastrekker » Sat 03 May, 2008 4:46 pm

RiverFly wrote:FTas has just started harvesting the hillside from south of the green gate at the Pine Hut track, south towards Jacksons Creek. This is half the view visible from the lodge site, so I think the relationship has a long way to go.

How long ago did logging start? I'm very surprised (but perhaps I shouldn't be) as this area is listed on the "Register of the National Estate" as part of the "Central Plateau Region" (Place ID 11562) Pine Hut Plain itself is also part of this entry on the register.

If you are keen enough to read the grid references, etc in the listing, you find the haritage area boundary runs south along the 800m contour on either side of the southern end of Lake Rowallan then crosses the valley about 750 north of the "green gate." Alternatively, there is a grey dashed line on the Cathedral 1:25000 map. All the area above/south of this boundary is National Estate.
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Re: CB&M Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain???

Postby RiverFly » Sun 04 May, 2008 6:03 pm

Interesting stuff the national register, but I don't know what it means or its implications - i am interested though. I just wrote a magazine article and in my research heard about the harvesting, so followed it up for inclusion. I also fished the Mersey valley about 40-50 days this year, which is probably more than most, hence my interest.
I enquired with the Mersey district forestry manager for the facts rather than rumour, got the answer, then sent in an objection to the proposed harvest which is is to be a partial harvest from about 200 metres beyond (south) of the gated road to Pine Hut Plain and extend approx 800 metres on either side of the road in a southerly direction. I was also told that the harvest had already commenced on April 10. My problem is its impact on the area, with that part of the valley being the departure point for fly fishers and walkers wishing to visit the southern end of the Walls WHA, and also its impact on the proposed development, which will be positive for my industry. My thoughts are that forestry activities should be limited to proceed as far south as Rowallan, but no further to protect the wilderness values of the WHA and upper Mersey River Valley.
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Re: CB&M Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain???

Postby flyfisher » Sun 04 May, 2008 6:31 pm

Hi Riverfly,

With regard to the forests near Pine Hut Plain access road ,
probably the attitude is get it now while no one's watching.If
it's out of order it's too late once it's cut down.
It would be nice if they didn't log past the top end of L . Rowallen at all.
Does anyone police this type of thing.[e.g. Parks]
Cheers Fly Fisher
Last edited by flyfisher on Wed 28 May, 2008 6:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: CB&M Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain???

Postby RiverFly » Sun 04 May, 2008 9:20 pm

Apparently the logging has been in the 3 year plan FTas have for the area, but, being a cinic or realist, I am sure that the plan came to fruition when the Pine Hut site was first identified for eco-tourism, and that FTas are indeed getting in whilst they have the upper hand so to speak. From an over-simplistic point of view they are in the business of harveting trees for their primary income, so getting them while they can would make sense for them from a business perspective. From the perspective of other stakehloders in the valley it is a harsh act, and inconsistent with good or sympathetic managment of the public resource. The proposed eco-lodge could be worth $1m or so for the valley a year (random ball=park), how much are the trees worth? There is heaps of positive PR for FTas in this if they come to the party and change their plans to work with the stakeholders in relation to this particular coup, lets hope they do.

There is another interesting school of thought coming to the fore out of all of this, and that is FTas's role as a tourism operator with Tahune, Dismal Swamp, Hollybank etc. Is it fair that as a tourism operator, they can put other operators at a disadvantage such as in this case, harvesting trees that make up part of the vista? Definite conflict of interest.

Lets hope some balance is achieved out of this one and the stakeholders and FTas managers can work together in the valley to eachothers mutual benefits.
Last edited by RiverFly on Sun 04 May, 2008 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CB&M Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain???

Postby tastrekker » Sun 04 May, 2008 9:21 pm

RiverFly wrote:I enquired with the Mersey district forestry manager for the facts rather than rumour, got the answer, then sent in an objection to the proposed harvest
How long ago did you object? Do you know what the process is? Do you get to hear any feedback relating to your objection?
tastrekker wrote:to be a partial harvest from about 200 metres beyond (south) of the gated road to Pine Hut Plain and extend approx 800 metres on either side of the road in a southerly direction.
I recently added a Clumner Bluff post to my blog that discusses the new "partial harvest" technique. In the blog entry, there is a photo of what it looks like from the side of the road. Here's a photo looking from above:
Image
"Partial harvest" logging coupes on Dublin Plain viewed from Clumner Bluff track.
I'll leave people to make their own judgement from a bushwalking perspective whether this looks any better than complete clearfell. I expect this technique is too new for people to have any examples of how this looks once it is regenerated. I suspect it will look very similar to the monogenous plantations that follow 'normal' clearfelling. I don't believe the handfull of trees that were left from previous generations will be enough to make it blend with the surrounding natural forest.
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Re: CB&M Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain???

Postby RiverFly » Sun 04 May, 2008 9:29 pm

I sent a letter of complaint and objection to the Mersey manager a fortnight ago after recieving the info requested, which was good of them to supply, and to his credit he quickly and succinclty replied. The planned harvesting would still be going ahead as intended. My best advice is if anyone has an objection, send in a letter / Email.
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Re: CB&M Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain???

Postby RiverFly » Tue 13 May, 2008 3:11 pm

I researched the National register etc a bit, and the best information I have is that it is now all but non-existent in any offical capacity. Aparently the Federals felt that the system had been corrupted by fluoro-greenies listing everything, and replaced it with the EPBC Act to protect valuable, listed flora and fauna.

I have seen where they have started logging, and it isn't pretty. The road was closed just beyond the green gate, which meant I couldn't reach Jacksons Creek as intended.

Its sad that the best FTAS could do last year was to make $500,000 profit from cutting down our trees (and remember it is our resource they are managing!). I bet two or three eco-lodges could make more than that in profit per year, with the trees left standing and eco-systems left intact.
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Re: CB&M Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain???

Postby flyfisher » Tue 13 May, 2008 9:35 pm

Its sad that the best FTAS could do last year was to make $500,000 profit from cutting down our trees (and remember it is our resource they are managing!). I bet two or three eco-lodges could make more than that in profit per year, with the trees left standing and eco-systems left intact


Hi Riverfly unfortunately nothing else seems to get much of a hearing where F.T. is involved.

It really is a pity that this area needs to be logged at all ,being near the start of some of our favourite [fishing]walks.
I guess there will be the usual spraying later on which in the long term must diminish the water quality.

Do you know how long the road is likely to remain closed? Doesn't leave many options open for that Meston trip.

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Re: CB&M Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain???

Postby RiverFly » Wed 14 May, 2008 9:08 am

I don't know how long they will take to cut this part of the forest down, and how long the road is shut etc.

I recently spoke to Simon Cubit (author of Tasmania pioneering history books) and his view was that Pine Hut was one of the most significant huts / history in the area for a number of reasons which I won't go into right now (i actually have to do some work!). Lets hope that FTas decide to work with CB&M and the rest of the stakeholders (us) and decide to manage this part of the forest for Tasmania, as the gateway to the WHA, in sympathy with the uses and significant Australian cultural values of the area, rather than for themselves and their own goals.

I'll still be heading to Meston in the next fortnight sometime, if the moons align, my newly wed wife says ok, and I can find $50 to fill the tank. I might still take the Jacksons Creek track one way or another, though the track past Lake Bill may get a run.

I don't think FTAS will spray after this harvest, this is usually related to plantations rather than re-growth forests. No trees to house the terrestrials that drive the fishery will impact on the fishing significantly though.
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Re: CB&M Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain???

Postby flyfisher » Wed 14 May, 2008 5:48 pm

Lets hope that FTas decide to work with CB&M and the rest of the stakeholders (us) and decide to manage this part of the forest for Tasmania, as the gateway to the WHA, in sympathy with the uses and significant Australian cultural values of the area, rather than for themselves and their own goals.

Good luck with that lot. Lets hope that wise heads make decisions for the common good

Fly Fisher
Last edited by flyfisher on Wed 14 May, 2008 9:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: CB&M Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain???

Postby Joe » Wed 14 May, 2008 6:40 pm

flyfisher wrote:Good luck with that lot. Lets hope that wise heads make decisions for the common good


Riiight....just need to find some of those and they can get right on it ;)

Its promising to see this sort of activity happening though. Step in right direction as far as im concerned. Similar to the new development at Hollybank...tassie needs as much of that sort of touristy promotion as it can get....we are sadly undeveloped compared to serious tourist destinations.
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Re: CB&M Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain???

Postby tastrekker » Wed 14 May, 2008 7:19 pm

I spoke to FT a couple of weeks ago because a few things didn't add up. Sorry I have been so slow to post the result. I can clarify the following points:
* The coupe is definitely not 800m either side of the road. If it was, that would extend beyond the river on the downhill side. The actual coupe is approx 50m wide on the downhill side and 250m uphill. This takes the logging to the 650m level which should be just below the view lines from Pine Hut Plain. (Small consolation, I know!) The coupe stops about 500m before the end of the road.
* The contractor is supposed to be maintaining road access throughout the operation. There may be a short wait if they are felling right beside the road but access should not be blocked for more than a few minutes. If the road has been blocked completely, it may be worth notifying the FT Mersey office.
* The coupe is expected to take another 4 to 6 weeks to complete.
* There is another coupe available for logging beyond the current coupe. This one actually extends beyond the end of the road almost to Jackson Creek. People walking along the start of the Moses/Jackson Creek Track may have noticed that the uphill side of the track has been selectively logged some time in the past. I did not ask whether this one was on the forward schedule.

Please don't take the above comments to mean that I am a fan of FT's operations. I too think it is tragic that logging operations are so close to the WHA. The WHA boundaries around Pine Hut Plain are stupid. On the east, the boundary runs along the watershed at the top of the mountain. To the west, the boundary is down at river level. Rather than tackle foresters and contractors who are doing their job, we need to take these issues up with the regulators and policy makers who draw up such ridiculous boundaries.
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Re: CB&M Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain???

Postby RiverFly » Wed 14 May, 2008 7:48 pm

Thanks for the info. My post about where the logging is planned for is a direct cut and paste from the Email I received from FTas. I agree it is hard to interpret, but the 800m remark is (I assume) in relation to how far along the road they plan to log (rather than distance above and below the road), travelling in a southerly direction (for 800m) from south of the Pine Hut gate towards Jacksons Creek (within 500 metres or so). This would mean it matches with your information :) .

As for the viewline, I am not sure how this is determined. I was standing at Pine Hut Plain on Sunday, and you can see the whole hill-side, in fact the setting sun highlights from about the road height clear up to about the 600-800 metre height each afternoon. I have a few pics but am not sure how to post them. On the same day I had to turn around trying to drive down to Jacksons Creek as no entry type forestry signs were up saying danger ahead etc.

I agree wholly, no point attacking the contractors, but the buck does stop with the forestry managers. They are forest managers, not forest harvesters -there is a difference. I would have thought that as the resource managers, they were tasked with managing the resource for the benefit of Tasmanians, which may not always mean harvesting.
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Re: CB&M Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain???

Postby tastrekker » Wed 14 May, 2008 10:03 pm

RiverFly wrote:the 800m remark is (I assume) in relation to how far along the road they plan to log
Thanks for that RiverFly. I've now read your original post properly and I can see that you were talking about 800 metres along the road!

Also, your comment about National Estate listing matches what I heard too. It is for "information only" and does not have any statutory significance. It sounds like Forestry were previously required to 'apply' to the Federal heritage people if they wanted to log an area on the register. I believe it was the RFA process between state and federal governments that removed the requirement.
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Re: Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain & Current Nearby Logging

Postby Son of a Beach » Thu 15 May, 2008 7:44 am

tastrekker wrote:* The contractor is supposed to be maintaining road access throughout the operation. There may be a short wait if they are felling right beside the road but access should not be blocked for more than a few minutes. If the road has been blocked completely, it may be worth notifying the FT Mersey office.

Hey, thanks heaps for this information, tastrekker. Looks like I may be able to get to the Moses Creek and Jackson Creek tracks tomorrow after all. If not, there's always our contingency plan to go back up the road a little way and use the Lake Bill track instead.

RiverFly wrote:I have a few pics but am not sure how to post them.

There's some topics on how to post images here and here. The first link is probably the easier method to use. The second link is the most suitable method if you already have another online site for hosting your images. I hope this helps. :)

Just for general information about this topic... I've been considering moving it to the 'Controversy Corner' forum ever since it started. Not because it's terribly controversial, but simply because it is a little political in nature and more about forestry and its relationship to bushwalking than about bushwalking directly. So if I end up moving it, it's not because of any particular posts. I'll make up my mind soon I guess.

PS. I've changed the title of this topic to better reflect the discussion that has resulted. Apologies to tastrekker :-) .
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Re: Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain & Current Nearby Logging

Postby gorby » Thu 15 May, 2008 8:03 pm

It may be worth considering who put the current road up the side of Rowallan.
It has been known as the Mersey Forestry road for as long as I can remember and it was constructed to gain future access to the surrounding forests including the blocks of land at Lees paddocks that the then named Tas Board mills owned.
(these blocks were exchanged with the goverment for other blocks with equivilant timber thankfully)

If you take in account how easy it is to access by regular vehicle to the start of the walls,meston,lees and junction tracks
then the Forestry and HEC have done us a huge favour.

I don't agree with all their practises but If they cause a short term access problem,then it should be looked at in perspective.
Talk to the old timers and find out how long it used to take to get into these areas and it will be realised how lucky we are. :)
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Re: Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain & Current Nearby Logging

Postby Son of a Beach » Mon 19 May, 2008 8:53 am

Well, I drove all the way to the very end of the Mersey Forest Road on Friday (Moses Creek and Jackson Creek tracks), and back out again yesterday. The logging was ongoing on Friday, and there was no delay to our driving at all. In fact I was surprised at the lack of signs and warnings. Just one tiny little sign right at the site of the first bit of logging warning of possible delays.

The road has been a bit stirred up and muddied, due to the frequent heavy vehicle access at a couple of points, but a 2wd can still get through without too much difficulty.

We started our walk with the distant sound of reverse beeps and chainsaws wafting through the forest.
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Re: CB&M Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain???

Postby tasadam » Tue 27 May, 2008 12:37 pm

RiverFly wrote:<snip> the buck does stop with the forestry managers. They are forest managers, not forest harvesters -there is a difference. I would have thought that as the resource managers, they were tasked with managing the resource for the benefit of Tasmanians, which may not always mean harvesting.

Could have fooled me... No difference in my view, from what I've seen.
Interesting to see how it goes now that PL is gone. I remember his first job as acting premier when Jim was sick was opening a sawmill in Scottsdale. :evil:
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Re: Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain & Current Nearby Logging

Postby corvus » Tue 27 May, 2008 10:01 pm

Sad to read the snipe at PL ,this State needs balance and diversity of industry including saw milling without which our economy could collapse,unless we convert to steel framing for our housing (how big is that carbon footprint) and exclude all sorts of timber from our daily use including all paper.
I am a realistic conservationist and practice what I preach by driving a 4cyl car,use natural gas for heating ,hot water and cooking ,I have converted most of my light globes to energy saver(all soon) have a fully insulated house,compost all that I can and have a fertile organic veggie garden,walk to the shops where possible ,switch of lights and monitors at work when not in use ,use a bucket in the shower,small bucket in the kitchen,only flush if its brown and we cold water wash our clothes which are air dried on the washing line ,I even use a Hand mower in Summer and hand pick /chip weeds.
I love trees the Forest ,Mountains,Lakes Rivers and streams but realise that most of them would be almost inaccessible to me if it were not for the industry of Hydro or Forestry.
I was saddened when Pedder was flooded did get there by Plane b4 it happened but gees the "Sky did not Fall" when it did and more people visit today than then, generating many more dollars to our economy.
As a final Rant those of you who are critics of industry breath deep and thank them for your JOBS because as a child of post WW2 War I have lived through jobs for all to high unemployment ,the current mining industry driven job glut and no doubt in the twilight of my years will see further change but I bet that Saw milling will still be with us and we will still use Timber and Paper.
In the case that you may be interested I declare myself as as"True Believer" and unashamedly so,as such I will forever question Dark Greens and those in between as to their motives in trying to stymie progress as I see it.
We are all after all "Jock Tamsons Bairns" and I would love us all to meet in the happy middle ground to the betterment of Tassie.
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Re: CB&M Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain???

Postby tasadam » Fri 30 May, 2008 4:18 pm

tasadam wrote:Interesting to see how it goes now that PL is gone.

Perhaps I didn't make the intentioons of my comments clear. It's no secret that our ex-premier was pro-logging - it has been known and out there for some time -
http://www.smh.com.au/news/Election-200 ... 51235.html
October 5, 2004
Pro-logging Labor Premier Paul Lennon


Already, with government change we are seeing a change to forest policy -
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 88,00.html
NEW Tasmanian Premier David Bartlett has begun adopting a policy agenda that distances him from the Lennon years, flagging further forest protection and moving immediately to investigate an ethics commission.

One point of note -
"What is most encouraging is that he seems committed to dialogue, and representative dialogue, and that is something we have never had in past forest policy in Tasmania, which has carried the stamp of Paul Lennon for the past 20 years."


Whether change will / has come in time to do anything about Pine Hut Plain is yet to be seen I guess.
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Re: Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain & Current Nearby Logging

Postby corvus » Fri 30 May, 2008 8:07 pm

tasadam I am still not clear about the intention of your comments can you be more specific without the news grabs :)
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Re: Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain & Current Nearby Logging

Postby Joe » Wed 11 Jun, 2008 10:58 pm

As I see it we are at the extreme end of Logging at moment. Its crazy...we need the 'dark greens' as you call them...To balance out the Extremely poor situation we are in, we need as much extremism from the opposite crowd to reach a happy mid ground.
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Re: Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain & Current Nearby Logging

Postby Son of a Beach » Thu 12 Jun, 2008 9:18 am

taswaterfalls.com wrote:As I see it we are at the extreme end of Logging at moment. Its crazy...we need the 'dark greens' as you call them...To balance out the Extremely poor situation we are in, we need as much extremism from the opposite crowd to reach a happy mid ground.


It's a shame that it has to be this way, but I think you're right. As long as there is an extreme in one direction, the only way to achieve any middle ground is to have an extreme on the other side. I find both extremes to be disagreeable, but they seem to be necessary in a rather ugly way.
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Re: Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain & Current Nearby Logging

Postby gorby » Sun 22 Jun, 2008 7:01 pm

just returned from a trip into lees paddocks and could not see any evidence of logging from the pine hut plain.
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Re: Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain & Current Nearby Logging

Postby RiverFly » Mon 23 Jun, 2008 10:09 am

Good to hear Gorby.
From what I know, the machinery was been pulled out for winter a month or so ago.
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Re: Eco Lodge at Pine Hut Plain & Current Nearby Logging

Postby Clownfish » Mon 19 Jan, 2009 9:21 am

Hi Everyone,

I've just joined this forum. I moved to Tassie 4 1/2 years ago, and been getting the family out bush quite regularly.

I just thought I'd add a little info about the eco-lodge - I have no idea about the logging.

I was doing some work with cb&m late last year, and I actually asked one of the managers about the ecolodge, as I had only recently walked to Lee's Hut and I was quite worried about access being closed off.

He was quite adamant that they wanted to keep access to the Lee's Paddock track open to the public.
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Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon 19 Jan, 2009 9:15 am
Location: Meander Valley, Tasmania
Region: Tasmania


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