Coroners Findings Trevor Tolputt Overland Track

Discussion specifically about the Overland Track should be posted in this subforum, including side trips and the Cradle Mountain day walk area. Alternative access routes and connecting routes belong in the parent forum.

Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby myrtlegirl » Tue 21 May, 2019 2:23 pm

This is such a waste of life:
"In succumbing to hypothermia and death on the Overland Track, Mr Tolputt, tragically, brought about his own demise by a series of poor decisions," Ms McTaggart said.[/i]


BUT this - such an appalling thing that rescues may not start as soon as practicable after someone reports a problem. This is NOT ON.
Vital information not passed on
[i]Another walker who had passed Mr Tolputt on the track about 4:30pm had reported to Lake St Clair visitors centre that he was "likely in a position of serious risk", but that was not passed on to Parks and Wildlife.
Ms Taggart said it was due, in part, to the "somewhat problematic" relationship between the privately run Lake St Clair visitors complex and Parks and Wildlife, which was "not conducive to effective communication".
A rescue was not begun until about 8:00am the following morning.
Ms McTaggart found that no-one else had contributed to Mr Tolputt's death because by the time he was seen by that walker, hypothermia had already set in and death was just two hours away.
By the time the walker had been able to report his concerns, it was likely Mr Tolputt was already dead.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-21/ ... r/11133622
myrtlegirl
Atherosperma moschatum
Atherosperma moschatum
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed 06 Jan, 2010 3:40 pm
Region: Tasmania
Gender: Female

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby wayno » Tue 21 May, 2019 3:06 pm

thats why you need a locator beacon, you arent reliant on others to bail you out and the signal goes straight to professional rescue services who will treat the alert with the highest priority and send help immediately, by the fastest means practicable.
from the land of the long white clouds...

NZ Tramping News https://www.facebook.com/groups/208124842637462/
User avatar
wayno
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 8482
Joined: Sun 19 Jun, 2011 7:26 am
Location: NZ
Region: New Zealand
Gender: Male

Coroners Findings Trevor Tolputt Overland Track

Postby Overlandman » Tue 21 May, 2019 3:14 pm

From ABC

A 55-year-old bushwalker who died on the Overland Track at Cradle Mountain three years ago "tragically brought about his own demise by a series of poor decisions", a Tasmanian coroner has found.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-21/ ... r/11133622
Whatever, Wherever, Whenever
Overlandman
Athrotaxis selaginoides
Athrotaxis selaginoides
 
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sun 13 Nov, 2011 5:22 pm
Location: Tasmania
Region: Tasmania
Gender: Male

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby Warin » Tue 21 May, 2019 3:19 pm

Reliance on others to ask for help is not good.

A coroners inquest into the deaths of 2 German tourists at Lake Eyre has lead to the SA Police not recording people going into remote areas.. they want you to have someone who knows you to do that looking out for you.

Best to have a PLB or similar. Then you can ask for help to the people that know how to get it to you quickly.
User avatar
Warin
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 766
Joined: Sat 11 Nov, 2017 8:02 am
Region: New South Wales

Re: Coroners Findings Trevor Tolputt Overland Track

Postby GPSGuided » Tue 21 May, 2019 3:36 pm

Sad!

So did the walker going past the deceased assist? Or was that refused. And all just 1.2km from the hut.
Just move it!
User avatar
GPSGuided
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 6814
Joined: Mon 13 May, 2013 2:37 pm
Location: Sydney
Region: New South Wales

Re: Coroners Findings Trevor Tolputt Overland Track

Postby myrtlegirl » Tue 21 May, 2019 4:04 pm

myrtlegirl
Atherosperma moschatum
Atherosperma moschatum
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed 06 Jan, 2010 3:40 pm
Region: Tasmania
Gender: Female

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby dee_legg » Tue 21 May, 2019 4:35 pm

wayno wrote:thats why you need a locator beacon, you arent reliant on others to bail you out and the signal goes straight to professional rescue services who will treat the alert with the highest priority and send help immediately, by the fastest means practicable.


Wayno, if you read the report, you'll find that there were multiple factors contributing to the finding of the Coroner that a PLB would have not assisted the deceased. I'm not disregarding your notion that PLB's offer a very useful tool for bushwalkers, but your comment in this context doesn't correlate with the situation at hand.

Cheers,

Dee

Edit: I now realise that the actual coroner's report wasn't linked in the original post. Here it is for anyone wishing to read the ins and outs. https://www.magistratescourt.tas.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/468022/TOLPUTT-Findings-OM.pdf
Last edited by dee_legg on Tue 21 May, 2019 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
dee_legg
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon 01 Oct, 2007 4:12 pm
Location: Hobart
Region: Tasmania
Gender: Female

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 21 May, 2019 5:20 pm

I'm not sure I get this.
The other walker just passed on by and didn't offer assistance or was help offered and refused?
Did he have other clothing in his pack?
I'm sure that the coroner had access to more information than is in the short media report.
Not having done the track myself how much time would it take to get back down 1200 metres from the hut. I do know from personal experience that going from OK to F***d can take a very short time even when well equipped if you think things are going well and you don't do "stuff" immediately
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 9100
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Coroners Findings Trevor Tolputt Overland Track

Postby north-north-west » Tue 21 May, 2019 5:24 pm

Nothing to do with walking alone, a great deal to do with the inadequate equipment. Even if you're there without decent waterproofs, there are places you can pitch to get out of the weather - provided you're carrying a tent, which many people still fail to do.

As for refusing assistance, by then he was probably sufficiently affected by hypothermia to not be thinking clearly. It's one of the gravest dangers of the condition.

I don't know what the average times are, but when I had to get choppered out from the Eldons, it took three hours for them to arrive after I set of the PLB. If that's anything like the norm, he'd have been dead by the time an S&R crew got there. Even if the Narcissus radio link went to P&WS staff, they'd still have to scramble the flight crew etc, so by that time his survival chances were minimal.

btw: ABC, can you stop refering to it as being "at Cradle Mtn"? Narcissus is in the Lake St Clair section of the NP.
"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens."
User avatar
north-north-west
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 11824
Joined: Thu 14 May, 2009 7:36 pm
Location: The Asylum
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: Social Misfits Anonymous
Region: Tasmania

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby north-north-west » Tue 21 May, 2019 5:34 pm

That last 1.2km would have taken me, in good conditions, maybe 15-20 minutes. In the conditions at the time, properly dressed, maybe half an hour at the most.

According to what I've read, assistance was offered and refused, but he would already have been hypothermic at that point and not thinking clearly. Those who offered may not have had equipment suitable to getting him and themselves out of the weather, hence they continued to Narcissus and presumably used the radio - or phones - to alert the Visitors Centre. Who didn't pass on the message until the next day, it seems.
"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens."
User avatar
north-north-west
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 11824
Joined: Thu 14 May, 2009 7:36 pm
Location: The Asylum
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: Social Misfits Anonymous
Region: Tasmania

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby nezumi » Tue 21 May, 2019 8:18 pm

Moondog55 wrote:I'm not sure I get this.
The other walker just passed on by and didn't offer assistance or was help offered and refused?
Did he have other clothing in his pack?
I'm sure that the coroner had access to more information than is in the short media report.
Not having done the track myself how much time would it take to get back down 1200 metres from the hut. I do know from personal experience that going from OK to F***d can take a very short time even when well equipped if you think things are going well and you don't do "stuff" immediately


From the report, the other walker who found him offered him chocolate and to walk with them, but was also concerned about the potential for his 11 year old son to go into hypothermia. Once he reached the hut he radioed across and made contact, then considered going out to look but realised he wouldn't be likely to have any success. He left a light on outside the hut as a waymarker for the other walker.
nezumi
Atherosperma moschatum
Atherosperma moschatum
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon 04 Jul, 2016 10:25 pm
Region: Victoria

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 21 May, 2019 8:26 pm

nezumi wrote:From the report, the other walker who found him offered him chocolate and to walk with them, but was also concerned about the potential for his 11 year old son to go into hypothermia. Once he reached the hut he radioed across and made contact, then considered going out to look but realised he wouldn't be likely to have any success. He left a light on outside the hut as a waymarker for the other walker.

If it had been me and I was with one of my own kids I would probably have had to do the same. Thanx for clearing that up
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 9100
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby GPSGuided » Tue 21 May, 2019 8:30 pm

No further suspicion when the deceased didn’t arrive at the hut after half an hour?

Obviously it’s easy to consider these after the fact. Having an 11 yo would obviously be a significant factor and restraint.
Just move it!
User avatar
GPSGuided
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 6814
Joined: Mon 13 May, 2013 2:37 pm
Location: Sydney
Region: New South Wales

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby myrtlegirl » Tue 21 May, 2019 8:51 pm

GPSGuided wrote:No further suspicion when the deceased didn’t arrive at the hut after half an hour?



Yes they were worried. The coroner's report notes "he and his wife seriously considered searching but ultimately he believed he may easily walk off track, become waist deep in water or snow and die. Mr xxxx placed an illuminated torch outside the hut so that if Mr Tolputt was nearby he would be able to locate the hut.
.....
Mr xxx and his family stayed at the hut overnight. In evidence, Mr xxx stated that he did not sleep due to concern about Mr Tolputt and said that at one stage he attempted to walk 100 metres along the track in an effort to locate him but turned back due to conditions being too challenging."


A large percentage of people who drown, or die in house fires, are the rescuers - safety first. Dead heroes make a tragedy worse.
myrtlegirl
Atherosperma moschatum
Atherosperma moschatum
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed 06 Jan, 2010 3:40 pm
Region: Tasmania
Gender: Female

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby crollsurf » Tue 21 May, 2019 8:54 pm

dee_legg wrote:Edit: I now realise that the actual coroner's report wasn't linked in the original post. Here it is for anyone wishing to read the ins and outs. https://www.magistratescourt.tas.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/468022/TOLPUTT-Findings-OM.pdf


The answers to this tragic event are all described in the report above. I have no doubt Cubbin did the right thing. He had an 11 year old boy whose health he had to consider. He wanted to go back and assist Mr Tolputt but I think, he would have also been tied/exhausted from a hard days walking. If he had have lost the track or his headlamp had have failed, he could well have been the second death that night.

A few points worth noting:
    Sounds like Mr Tolputt was travelling light, I'm an Ultraligher myself but you should never sacrifice safety and in Winter conditions, being warm/dry is everything.

    Companies claim there jackets are waterproof but some don't even last a 30 minute shower. It's criminal really. I wouldn't travel in those conditions with anything other than Goretex pro. There probably are other membranes that work but GTX pro, if looked after, works for sure.

    Hypothermia, if you're tired and start shivering, you need to seek shelter and warmth immediately. You need to set up your tent and have a mat with a good R rating, get in your sleeping bag, put on dry cloths, eat, exercise, do whatever you can to get warm again and it normally takes hours.

Hypothermia is so dangerous. I remember they found someone in the 80's near Thredbo, dead with their feet in the creek. They actually thought they were getting too hot. Once you start shivering, you are not right and out in the wilderness, you are in serious danger.
User avatar
crollsurf
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
Phyllocladus aspleniifolius
 
Posts: 880
Joined: Tue 07 Mar, 2017 10:07 am
Location: Sydney
Region: New South Wales
Gender: Male

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby wayno » Wed 22 May, 2019 3:48 am

dee_legg wrote:
wayno wrote:thats why you need a locator beacon, you arent reliant on others to bail you out and the signal goes straight to professional rescue services who will treat the alert with the highest priority and send help immediately, by the fastest means practicable.


Wayno, if you read the report, you'll find that there were multiple factors contributing to the finding of the Coroner that a PLB would have not assisted the deceased. I'm not disregarding your notion that PLB's offer a very useful tool for bushwalkers, but your comment in this context doesn't correlate with the situation at hand.

Cheers,

Dee

Edit: I now realise that the actual coroner's report wasn't linked in the original post. Here it is for anyone wishing to read the ins and outs. https://www.magistratescourt.tas.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/468022/TOLPUTT-Findings-OM.pdf


its irrelevant whether it would have saved him or not, there should have been people out there with beacons and emergency shelters and they should have been used to try and save him, and that never happened. its a bigger failure than just delay contacting authorities through word of mouth and radio..

its not like you come across someone and think, hmm I think they will die before they can get decent help, i won't set my beacon off. you still try everything you can short of threatening your own safety.
not just the affected person, but anyone coming across him who may have had a beacon they could set off would have expedited a rescue far sooner. no one swho saw the dying man had a beacon,
It's very common now that rescues are initiated by someone setting off a beacon for someone else in trouble that they have come across, especially on busy tracks, I dont know the exact percentage but from reading a lot of articles about rescues its a significant amount. I would estimate as high as 30% or possibly more. esp on busy tracks where less experienced people are less likely to have a beacon and its more likely for someone else be set one off.

rain can still get into a waterproof jacket, overtime it seeps in through the neck and under the hems, esp in the wind, capillary action moves any moisture around through the underlying clothing, if you have been sweating the sweat doesnt get out at all if the outside of the raingear has been wetted out...
always carry a raincoat, don't believe a weather report, they aren't the gospel, if you dress for the forecast only, that won't help you if it rains when the forecast was for dry weather.
you need to carry emergency shelter if you get into trouble, and know when to use it.
no one who saw him had emergency shelter, if they did they could have set that up for him to help him.
on the great walks in NZ, when you go to collect your tickets the DOC staff will question you to try and make sure you have proper clothes for the conditions.
from the land of the long white clouds...

NZ Tramping News https://www.facebook.com/groups/208124842637462/
User avatar
wayno
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 8482
Joined: Sun 19 Jun, 2011 7:26 am
Location: NZ
Region: New Zealand
Gender: Male

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby north-north-west » Wed 22 May, 2019 8:01 am

wayno wrote:
dee_legg wrote:
wayno wrote:thats why you need a locator beacon, you arent reliant on others to bail you out and the signal goes straight to professional rescue services who will treat the alert with the highest priority and send help immediately, by the fastest means practicable.


Wayno, if you read the report, you'll find that there were multiple factors contributing to the finding of the Coroner that a PLB would have not assisted the deceased. I'm not disregarding your notion that PLB's offer a very useful tool for bushwalkers, but your comment in this context doesn't correlate with the situation at hand.

Cheers,

Dee

Edit: I now realise that the actual coroner's report wasn't linked in the original post. Here it is for anyone wishing to read the ins and outs. https://www.magistratescourt.tas.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/468022/TOLPUTT-Findings-OM.pdf


its irrelevant whether it would have saved him or not, there should have been people out there with beacons and emergency shelters and they should have been used to try and save him, and that never happened. its a bigger failure than just delay contacting authorities through word of mouth and radio..


The first rule of rescue is not to put yourself in danger. Given the conditions, staying, or returning to him when he didn't turn up, would have put more people in danger. They did the best they could under the circumstances.

It takes two to three hours to get the S&R chopper there, IF it can fly. It would have been grounded in the conditions they had that night.
Sure, IF some who passed had a strong enough tent that was big enough for all of them to stay in safely overnight, that may have helped. We don't know what sort of equipment people were carrying. Even in winter, far too many people hit that track without tents.

In the end, harsh as it sounds, he went in with inadequate equipment and no understanding of how bad the conditions could get. What happened to him is down to him.
"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens."
User avatar
north-north-west
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 11824
Joined: Thu 14 May, 2009 7:36 pm
Location: The Asylum
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: Social Misfits Anonymous
Region: Tasmania

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby wayno » Wed 22 May, 2019 8:16 am

emergency shelter includes bivy bags, waterproof sleeping bag covers, emergency bags. it all helps keep the person warmer, put the person in something like that, dont stay if you think your own health and safety is at risk.
it points out how unprepared they were.
from the land of the long white clouds...

NZ Tramping News https://www.facebook.com/groups/208124842637462/
User avatar
wayno
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 8482
Joined: Sun 19 Jun, 2011 7:26 am
Location: NZ
Region: New Zealand
Gender: Male

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby Vee » Wed 22 May, 2019 9:38 am

Wayno
How does a member of the public force another person to do something against their will? Help was offered in this case by two different walking parties.
Vee
Nothofagus gunnii
Nothofagus gunnii
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon 09 Feb, 2009 6:37 pm
Region: Tasmania

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby wayno » Wed 22 May, 2019 9:49 am

Vee wrote:Wayno

How does a member of the public force another person to do something against their will? Help was offered in this case by two different walking parties.


someone keeps insisting they need to warm themselves up and please use their emergency shelter...
it happens in NZ, some situations a person blatantly needs help, one guy was in jandals on tongariro in snow, lost his jandals and trying to walk barefoot, members of the public offered help, he said he didnt need any, they eventually pursuaded him he did need help and they put some spare footwear and extra clothing on him

a hypothermic person could be walking around half naked and say they dont need help, persuasion may or may not work, a bit more persistence may have worked.
the other people should have had enough gear that they themselves shouldnt have had to worry about hypothermia, but unfortunately that didnt seem to be the case...

you're talking about someones life in the end, making the extra effort can save lives.
extra time talking to people in NZ has convinced them to change their plans when they weren't adequately equipped.
maybe you have to spell out to them, if you cant move with the gear you have in this weather in your condition you may die if you don't put extra layers on...
you can but try.
SAR would strip any wet clothing off them if at all possible and replace with dry clothing and put him in a shelter if he was too sick to move...
sure its harder for individual members of the public to go that far....
from the land of the long white clouds...

NZ Tramping News https://www.facebook.com/groups/208124842637462/
User avatar
wayno
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 8482
Joined: Sun 19 Jun, 2011 7:26 am
Location: NZ
Region: New Zealand
Gender: Male

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby potato » Wed 22 May, 2019 9:58 am

I totally agree with you wayno, people need to try harder. I feel for the person with a child who offered help though.

This walk in particular has many people who are inexperienced or ill-equipped to identify or deal with someone in need of help. Perhaps a more constructive recommendation could have been to provide advice and increase awareness on helping those in need.
potato
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu 28 Jan, 2016 1:06 pm
Region: Australian Capital Territory
Gender: Male

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby wayno » Wed 22 May, 2019 10:15 am

i was on the kepler track, i dont know in what order it happenend, i didnt see it all.
but the following definitely happened
a lady collapsed with hypothermia on the ridgeline in bad weather, some people carried her to a shelter and looked after her for a day and night till she could be moved lower and a helicopter brought in to evacuate her
numerous people decided they needed to get off the ridge as fast as possible to avoid hypothermia, so they ditched their packs so they could move faster... the next hut was in the valley several hundred of vertical metres lower. none of them came back up for their packs till the next day....
this is the way people can behave, a lot of people can just end up being out for themselves. abandoning your gear is usually a bad option, but if you're panicking it may seem like a good option..
i don't know if anyone tried to get them to hang onto their packs , if they did it didnt work , or no one had the presence of mind to tell them to hold onto their packs...
sometimes someone should be taking charge to make the right decisions for other people, and it may not be about being polite if that doesnt work... this can be life and death stuff, you act one way and a person lives, you choose a different course of action and a person dies.
saving someones life may involve physically manhandling them into more clothes or a shelter...
there was a doco on Top gear where they did a survival course, clarkson was pushed into freezing water in a snowfield. he didnt respond fast enough to instructions on what he needed to do so the instructors physically manhandled him into a tent and changed his clothes for him , to save himself from hypothermia...
you may have to decide if thats what you're going to do, hypothermic people can be very placid or they may fight you depending on how hypothermic they are and their personality... hypothermia can kill quickly as the article mentions, i've hadhypothermia and it was very debilitating and made me very unmotivated to help myself but i'd had enough training to know i was in very serious trouble and i forced myself to change clothes and get into shelter and a sleeping bag and i was able to recover to extract myself by the following day... water can cool you down a lot faster than when you're dry. some clothes loose any insulation value when they are wet, so choice of clothing is crucial.... as they say cotton kills ....
Last edited by wayno on Wed 22 May, 2019 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
from the land of the long white clouds...

NZ Tramping News https://www.facebook.com/groups/208124842637462/
User avatar
wayno
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 8482
Joined: Sun 19 Jun, 2011 7:26 am
Location: NZ
Region: New Zealand
Gender: Male

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby north-north-west » Wed 22 May, 2019 10:19 am

Ordinary members of the public have no duty of care to complete strangers who put themselves in danger.

All this "they didn't try hard enough" bull. They were there, you weren't. They could assess the dangers of attempting assistance/rescue in the prevailing condition, you can't. It is not possible to save everyone who goes bush without adequate preparation and equipment. We all have to accept that. Judging the people on the ground who did the best they could at the time and in the circumstances achieves nothing.
"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens."
User avatar
north-north-west
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 11824
Joined: Thu 14 May, 2009 7:36 pm
Location: The Asylum
ASSOCIATED ORGANISATIONS: Social Misfits Anonymous
Region: Tasmania

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 22 May, 2019 10:22 am

It's hard. You can't always recognise when somebody you don't know is in trouble and there is that genetic imperative to keep your children safe no matter what. We weren't there
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
Moondog55
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 9100
Joined: Thu 03 Dec, 2009 4:15 pm
Location: Norlane Geelong Victoria Australia
Region: Victoria
Gender: Male

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby wayno » Wed 22 May, 2019 10:27 am

north-north-west wrote:Ordinary members of the public have no duty of care to complete strangers who put themselves in danger.

All this "they didn't try hard enough" bull. They were there, you weren't. They could assess the dangers of attempting assistance/rescue in the prevailing condition, you can't. It is not possible to save everyone who goes bush without adequate preparation and equipment. We all have to accept that. Judging the people on the ground who did the best they could at the time and in the circumstances achieves nothing.


its a personal choice whether members of the public want to take duty of care to help strangers in danger...
your first responsibility is to not jeopardise your own safety in helping others.
stressful situations arent straight forward and people shouldnt be judged on their actions at the time, we can learn something from these situations but its not about right and wrong, whats right and wrong can differ from person to person and depends on the scenario
from the land of the long white clouds...

NZ Tramping News https://www.facebook.com/groups/208124842637462/
User avatar
wayno
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 8482
Joined: Sun 19 Jun, 2011 7:26 am
Location: NZ
Region: New Zealand
Gender: Male

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby potato » Wed 22 May, 2019 10:28 am

I'm not saying people should put themselves in danger. But if you are out there and experienced, you shouldn't be anywhere near hypothermia. You should be able to offer help and this something we increasingly don't see... outside this example, people just walk on by when others are in need. So its far from bull.
potato
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu 28 Jan, 2016 1:06 pm
Region: Australian Capital Territory
Gender: Male

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby dee_legg » Wed 22 May, 2019 10:47 am

north-north-west wrote:Ordinary members of the public have no duty of care to complete strangers who put themselves in danger.

All this "they didn't try hard enough" bull. They were there, you weren't. They could assess the dangers of attempting assistance/rescue in the prevailing condition, you can't. It is not possible to save everyone who goes bush without adequate preparation and equipment. We all have to accept that. Judging the people on the ground who did the best they could at the time and in the circumstances achieves nothing.


Dear NNW,

Thanks for being a voice of reason among all this should of/ would of/ what if nonsense.
User avatar
dee_legg
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon 01 Oct, 2007 4:12 pm
Location: Hobart
Region: Tasmania
Gender: Female

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby Vee » Wed 22 May, 2019 11:03 am

I'm with you Dee an NNW.
Vee
Nothofagus gunnii
Nothofagus gunnii
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon 09 Feb, 2009 6:37 pm
Region: Tasmania

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby potato » Wed 22 May, 2019 11:10 am

Well, in a hypothetical situation... just walk on by.
potato
Athrotaxis cupressoides
Athrotaxis cupressoides
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu 28 Jan, 2016 1:06 pm
Region: Australian Capital Territory
Gender: Male

Re: Overland track death in 2016 due to hypothermia.

Postby GPSGuided » Wed 22 May, 2019 11:25 am

If suicide and euthanasia are not accepted, then someone in effect is taking one’s own good life carries some weight in society. The degree of intervention will obviously vary with the people involved and circumstances. As for people tripping over on city streets, some will walk on by while others will stop and assist. It’s a reflection on the relationship b/n people in a society.
Just move it!
User avatar
GPSGuided
Lagarostrobos franklinii
Lagarostrobos franklinii
 
Posts: 6814
Joined: Mon 13 May, 2013 2:37 pm
Location: Sydney
Region: New South Wales

Next

Return to Overland Track and Cradle Mountain

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 3 guests