Bushwalk Australia

Hi everyone, this is going to seem like a nerdy post, but I had a rainy weekend with nothing else on.....

I will be doing the OLT in late September with two other guys and I am having trouble determining which sort of stove I should bring and therefore how much fuel to bring with it. I would like some advice on this and comments on the test I did below.

I have an MSR Pocket Rocket and an MSR Whisperlite. I got the Whisperlite to use in the snow but started using it more than the Pocket Rocket because refilling the fuel bottles with Shellite suits me better than buying new gas canisters. However I have only ever used either of them for a maximum of two nights in a row, for a maximum of 2 people, hence my uncertainty about how much fuel I will need.

Our menu will generally be something like the following:

(All for three people).

1. Tea/Coffee #1
2. Breakfast - Porridge (Bag of quick oats, not the tiny instant sachet kind, so some cook time required)
3. Lunch - flatbreads, cheese, salami, etc.
4. Tea/Coffee #2
5. Dinner - Either instant noodles or the Freeze-dried packaged meals, or alternating every second night.
6. Tea/Coffee #3

I performed the following test with the Whisperlite at home to simulate a day's stove use (Sydney in August, so I would need to allow more fuel for colder weather). This was all using the heat shield, a 2L MSR "Base" pot, and allowing over an hour between tests to allow the stove to cool completely so that I would have to prime it again properly the next time. I simply measured the volume of fuel at the beginning and end of the test to get the amount used.

1. Tea/Coffee #1
Water Quantity: 3 x 450mL cups = 1,350mL
Burn Time: 5 mins

2. Breakfast - Porridge
Water Quantity: 750mL (one metric cup each) plus half cup of oats
Burn Time: 3 mins, 30 secs (including boil plus cook time)

3. Tea/Coffee #2
Water Quantity: 3 x 450mL cups = 1,350mL
Burn Time: 5 mins

4. Dinner - Instant Noodles
Water Quantity: 2,000mL (full MSR pot)
Burn Time: 6 mins, 30 secs
(Freeze-dried meals usually only require about 1,500mL or less, so they would use less fuel than the noodles).

5. Tea/Coffee #3
Water Quantity: 3 x 450mL cups = 1,350mL
Burn Time: 5 mins

Total fuel used: 200mL per day = 1,200mL Shellite
Total water boiled: 6.8L per day = 40.8L Water
Total burn time: 25 mins per day = 150 minutes

So this would require us to carry, at a minimum 1 x 887mL fuel bottle and 1 x 325mL fuel bottle, and that doesn't allow extra for the coldness factor or any extra needed in emergencies.

Does this test seem to correlate with people's experience on here? Is that really how much fuel I will need? It does seem a fair bit more than the table I found in MSR's article here: http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/blog/stoves-101-how-much-fuel-should-i-carry/ which states 1.3L of water per ounce of fuel for the Whisperlite, which comes to 32 ounces. Their biggest bottle is 30 ounces (887mL) so I would still need an additional smaller bottle. Does this mean I am not operating the Whisperlite efficiently.

On the other hand, the link above states 2L of water per ounce of fuel for the Pocket Rocket (which comes to 21 ounces, so I would need 3 x 8oz (227g) canisters. This seems like it would be lighter.

So if I assume that my test was valid and I haven't been screwing up my calculations, the choice is between:

a) MSR Whisperlite Stove = 410g (packed weight)
1 x 887mL MSR Liquid Fuel Bottle + 207g bottle = 1,094g (using 1mL = 1g, it's probably less)
1 x 325ml MSR Liquid Fuel Bottle + 79g bottle = 404g (again using 1mL = 1g)
Total = 1,908g

b) MSR Pocket Rocket Stove: 119g
3 x 227g canisters = 3 x 374g (gross weight) = 1,122g

Going by all this, I should go with the Pocket Rocket for weight efficiency. I am fully aware that there are many areas above where I could have screwed this all up. I would be grateful for any thoughts or advise any of you have on this!

My first time down the track my wife and I carried one 230g and one 460g canister.

We had two hot drinks per day and two hot meals per day.

We didn't use all of the first small (230g) canister in seven days. The large one was untouched.

But it's a very variable thing.
1. You have three people instead of two
2. Our Kovea supalite was remarkably efficient the first time we used it, much moreso than others who had pocket rockets
3. Depends a lot on whether you heat water in the hut, or in the wind
4. We walked in summer. In winter, you'll have colder water to start with = more gas.

I think the gas is much lighter and much more user friendly than liquid fuel, but each to their own. In September make sure you buy good mixes with more propane/isobutane. The elemental canisters are good for cold weather.

If you have the option to carry one 460g or 2x230g, always carry the two. It might be slightly lighter with one (the weights above are the net gas weights not the total including the canister itself), for redundancy two is better. That way, if one canister's valve fails on day 2 you'll have enough to at least get you by in the second canister.

Good luck. I fear I've given you more questions than answers!!

South_Aussie_Hiker wrote:Good luck. I fear I've given you more questions than answers!!

Nope! This sort of info re: other people's experience is exactly what I need. More useful than the table of fuel usage stats on the MSR website. Cheers.

South_Aussie_Hiker wrote:If you have the option to carry one 460g or 2x230g, always carry the two. It might be slightly lighter with one (the weights above are the net gas weights not the total including the canister itself), for redundancy two is better. That way, if one canister's valve fails on day 2 you'll have enough to at least get you by in the second canister.

Can't remember if it has been discussed before but does anyone know the failure rate of those Lindal valves? No failures seen here.

I did a snow shoe trip in Kozzie in the middle of July with all cooking done using a jetboil and jetboil gas cannisters. We were above the treeline and it was very (very) cold. We used approx 45gram of gas per day each. This was enough for hot water for breakfast (oats, coffee and a cup of tea) and dinner (freeze dried) plus multiple cups of tea. We also boiled drinking water.

All our water came from boiling snow which takes a very long time.

I assume there will be liquid water on your trip so shouldn't need as much gas as we used.

Hope that is helpful!

I use a Jetboil Flash stove, and my usual consumption per day on a longer trip will be 3 hot drinks, a cup of soup and a freeze dried dinner. I have on several occasions lasted more than 7 days on a 100g cannister. The last occasion was during a 9 day trip through the Eldon Range. We had 2 tent days, where my consumption increased, and we had 2 days of snow, so the water took a little longer to boil. I still did not finish off the 100g cannister.

The Jetboil claims to burn 100g of gas in an hour, and boiling a litre of water in 90 seconds. This means you can boil 40L on 100g.

I have used a Pocket Rocket in the past, and while it is not quite as efficient as the Jetboil - it is not far off. I would have thought that between 3 people, a 227g cannister each would get you through the OLT without any problems.

I used to have a Whisperlite too, but switched to gas after hurting my back and started looking for lighter options, gas was that option. Even if you took a spare 100g cannister as a back up, you would still be lighter than the Whisperlite.

After having used numerous stoves in my travels, the jetboil seems to be one of the best. Still love my whisperlite, but for pure ease of use, weight and efficiency it wins hands down. Last season did the OT and spent 12 days on the trail. I took a jetboil and 1 [one] 227g msr can.I find this blend of fuel to be one of the best altho jetboil are OK as well. I basically had the usual menu, similar to yours and still had plenty of fuel left at Fergies paddock. A fellow traveller gave me his half empty can and it was not required. As a guide I drink plenty of tea, 4-5 cups a day. I suggest forgetting the instant noodles and getting freez-dri meals. Noodles have no nutritional value, take too much mucking around and you will get sick of them really quick. Hope this helps.

I've used a Pocket Rocket on the OLT and found one 227g canister not quite enough - used three times a day for instant oats, soup, tea, and a freeze-dried meal.
On principle I would not set out with a single canister, so I carried a small (110g) canister for backup, used it once, and then had a disposal problem at the end.
Which prompted me to change to a Clickstand spirit stove.

I have two MSR fuel stoves in my collection, a Whisperlite and a Dragonfly, but have not used either for ages. Perhaps I should sell them?

I have a Whisperlite and Simmerlite MSR stove and always use Shellite.

For a party of 3 over a 5 night walk using the stove to heat water for breakfast (2 batches of water at about 2 litres each time max) and the same for dinner we used about 650-700ml of Shellite.

For a party of 2 over 5 days / 4 nights in Tassie I have used on 450ml of Shellite.

If I am going solo I prefer a gas cannister stove but for a group I don't think you can beat Shellite - many people do not like the smell but once you know how to use the stove without leaking Shellite over the hut tables it is a good option!

I can offer a tip.........

When two ladies can't get their dodgy stove going and you offer them to use your gas burner, ask if they are going to simmer their meal for 15 minutes first

Yes I got their dodgy stove working the next morning when they wanted to have a hot breakfast

Like marino underpants - stoves are best not shared or at least fuel is best not shared if you want to finish on empty

OLT Summer - 2 of us with similar usage as you stated in your opening post - used up all of 1x230g and 1x100g with MSR Micro Rocket. This included using a cosy to save fuel whilst re-hydrating meals, ie i never simmered the meals for long. Maybe im doing it wrong.
On the last day didnt have enough fuel to make a cup of tea whilst waiting for the ferry. Next time Im taking 2x230g for 2 people.

Like others have mentioned two Elemental 230g nett 337g gross each would be my recommendation ,better to have some left over than run out and the shared weight is nothing.

Yep I'd take 2 as well. Much better to have a bit extra so you can have lots of cups of warm drinks if the weather turns nasty

Think I might only take a small 110g can next time. Looks like a lot of people have gas cans left over that they can't dispose of. Hope none of you dump them in the bin at Lake St. Clair.

Thanks for the advice everyone. It mostly seems to be supporting my conclusion that the Pocket Rocket is the way to go. At the moment I'm thinking one 230g canister each plus another one spare between us (4 total). But I'll be doing some camping around the Snowies over the next few weeks so I'll have a chance to do some cold weather tests with it similar to what I did with the Whisperlite. We will also have a spare Pocket Rocket just because one of my walking partners has one and they weigh almost nothing.

Thanks again.

I think that is a pretty good idea.

If you're careful, I'd imagine three 230g canisters would be just enough for the three of you - you are having quite a few hot drinks per day.

The fourth one will be a good backup in case you get holed up in bad weather or you have a fault with one.

How many days are you taking? I guess that's an important question. Some people race along in five days, others do all the side trips including a few days at Pine Valley and take 10-12.

In terms of using them, don't share the usage around. Use one canister only until it goes flat, and then start another - it means if you're going to take six days and your first can is still going at the end of day 2, you'll know that three is going to be enough and you can relax or have a couple of extra hot drinks. It also means you can keep full cans for another trip.

While good blends like Elemental should be fine, if the canister feels heavy but doesn't seem to burn very well, stick it in your sleeping bag overnight (I wrap mine in a jumper and use it as a knee pillow). When you wake up, the canister will be nice and warm and you won't have any issues with the gas after a cold night.

Good luck. I highly recommend all of the side trips, except perhaps Innes Falls. Barn Bluff is a big extension on day 1 if you've already done Cradle, but well worth it. Ossa shouldn't be missed if weather suits, and Oakleigh/The Acropolis are the best side trips on the track IMHO.

Even if the weather is foul, a walk up to the hut at Pine Valley is magical. If recommend walking out past Echo Point too.

Hope you're well prepared for wet weather... September is generally very unstable weather.

How many of you have a Hot drink mid day ? other than 60 years ago when my Dad boiled a Billy on a day walk can I ever remember making a hot drink at our lunch stops (too hot,cold, windy,wet or snowing)

South_Aussie_Hiker: thanks for the tips. Starting a new canister or bottle of fuel before a partially full one is empty is one of my pet peeves. And yes we are prepared for wet weather, wind, snow, etc.

Corvus: A lunch time cup of tea on the trail is unlikely for us. I don't think I've ever done it before. Not worth the hassle of getting the stove, etc. out of the pack. I think it would be more likely that we have a morning cup, then another when we finish walking for the day, then another after dinner (if only to have something to do until bed time).

By about Day 5 I was running out with a 100g canister and I had not even required to melt snow. If using a canister stove I'd recommend the 230g for solo travel. I also use a Fire Maple shellite stove from China which provides superb performance without the massive MSR Price Tag.

Id also take a pack of fire lighters helps get those coal stoves started easily.

The ranger at Lake St Clair took my canisters, said they have a puncture kit to make them safe for recycling . Also Hobart gear stores take them as they have the fuel transfer system and can use half empties.

weighty walker wrote:The ranger at Lake St Clair took my canisters, said they have a puncture kit to make them safe for recycling . Also Hobart gear stores take them as they have the fuel transfer system and can use half empties.

The old fashioned Beer Can Opener (for those who can remember the Big VB cans and other b4 ring pull beer cans ) work a treat on empty canisters ,no need to purchase the expensive MSR one, just look in the Tip/Charity Shops

Hi there,

Just back from 5night-August OLT (4.5 days on snow). Our group of three used the Whisperlite International, cooked similar to what you have planned, maybe a tad more. Usage was about 950ml of Shellite.

It's a brief post but hope that helps.

January
2 people, 10 days with side trips, 2 x 230g canisters; had enough spare for a few cups of tea at Lake St Clair.
Pocket Rocket!