why cant/dont we...

[aloftas]

Have a Tassie inspired wilderness gear co-op/company?
Make some iconic gear. Such as the Ultra light OLT pack, with an airmattress as the cushioning of the pack, the pack being a bivy, the tent or part of, being the raincover etc etc?

Why cant we make some warm thermals out of this fine merino wool?

Why cant we make the best sleeping bags?

One with synthetic bottom impervious layer, with primaloft on the bottom side and goose down on top?

We need to shake ourselves, realize the opportunity, and give some attention to the fact that if we don't, we may well end up like Greece.
Tourists deserve more than inflated prices on food and gear.

[Strider]

What is your logic for primaloft on the bottom? Crushed insulation is still crushed insulation. There are some great MYOG quilts being made by members on this forum

[aloftas]

What is your logic for primaloft on the bottom? Crushed insulation is still crushed insulation. There are some great MYOG quilts being made by members on this forum

yes, I understand, primaloft was the first thing which came to mind. I just think that Tassie should stand up and be counted.
Our environment is as extreme, as iconic as any where yet we are content to pay a FORTUNE for reasonable gear.
I bet there isn't a person on this forum who hasn't spent $5000-10 000 on gear and still made compromises...


Lets just make a tyvek bivy with no bottom and call it done?

[aloftas]

by no bottom, I mean leave feet holes.

[aloftas]

by no bottom, I mean leave feet holes.

so we can just up and walk.
like a tyvek monks habit.

[GPSGuided]

We need to shake ourselves, realize the opportunity, and give some attention to the fact that if we don't, we may well end up like Greece.
Tourists deserve more than inflated prices on food and gear.

Small market and high cost base. If one can address either of those, then your idea may fly in this globalised market. Labour intensive manufacturing just isn't our strong suit. We still have many other commercial strengths here in Aust, quite different to Greece.

[aloftas]

We need to shake ourselves, realize the opportunity, and give some attention to the fact that if we don't, we may well end up like Greece.
Tourists deserve more than inflated prices on food and gear.

Small market and high cost base. If one can address either of those, then your idea may fly in this globalised market. Labour intensive manufacturing just isn't our strong suit. We still have many other commercial strengths here in Aust, quite different to Greece.

I understand, however when I was taught economics, I was taught that "production" is the only economic unit of any lasting value. As you say, we are in a globalised market. We actually have a competitive clothing manufacturer (I think ) who makes work clothes...surely they could be contracted to use wickable fabrics as opposed to hi viz... Similarly, we have/had woollen mills..so instead of $95 being the base line price for merino thermals, how about $60 and the marginal return still being as great?

I am only flying an idea...

but still...

the idea of selling pies for $6 just doesn't appeal to me.

[GPSGuided]

The other part obviously is the entrepreneurial spirit here in Oz. How many people are willing to put up the fund to start such ventures at such odds and when there are opportunities in alternative sectors? At the same time, I'm sure many people have already crunched the numbers...

[aloftas]

most of the "high end" like Hilleberg, Outdoor Research, One Planet, Mont, all started from dissatisfaction with the current state of the gear around.

Only have to look at Kathmandu to see the numbers add up.


Anyway...


I am going to get some Pink Batts and make my beanie...

Chat later

[GPSGuided]

I am going to get some Pink Batts and make my beanie...

If the idea is brilliant, then expand your market and see where it takes you.

[aloftas]

I am going to get some Pink Batts and make my beanie...

If the idea is brilliant, then expand your market and see where it takes you.

Cheers...

be safe out there all

[Strider]

There is little gain in specialist equipment with very limited markets. The reality is nonone does it because the risk is huge and the reward is minimal. Real money is made by volume players like Kathmandu and Macpac (increasingly).

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[aloftas]

There is little gain in specialist equipment with very limited markets. The reality is nonone does it because the risk is huge and the reward is minimal. Real money is made by volume players like Kathmandu and Macpac (increasingly).

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

yeah I see that, but gee it is frustrating.

I bet "we" could do it if there was some streamlining of beaurocracy and red tape.
Just imagine we could have our Cressy Thermal tops with our Cape Barren Goose Down parkas all snuggled up in our Tassie Devil FACTORY SEAM SEALED (scream) tents...

[Strider]

All you need to do it is good business acumen and a poo... of startup capital

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[aloftas]

All you need to do it is good business acumen and a poo... of startup capital

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Cant we get a Grant?

Say we are disaffected loggers or somethink?

[GPSGuided]

All you need to do it is good business acumen and a poo... of startup capital

And willingness to blow that 'poo...' of capital. The question is, who are keen to pick up the financial risks? The other way to play is to develop a niche product that the big players are keen to pick up. However, few items in this sector perform that much better, are well differentiated and can have IP protection. As such, few take the punt. The reward just isn't there.

[RonK]

Have a Tassie inspired wilderness gear co-op/company?
Make some iconic gear. Such as the Ultra light OLT pack, with an airmattress as the cushioning of the pack, the pack being a bivy, the tent or part of, being the raincover etc etc?

Why cant we make some warm thermals out of this fine merino wool?

Why cant we make the best sleeping bags?

One with synthetic bottom impervious layer, with primaloft on the bottom side and goose down on top?

We need to shake ourselves, realize the opportunity, and give some attention to the fact that if we don't, we may well end up like Greece.
Tourists deserve more than inflated prices on food and gear.

What do you mean "we"?

If you think it is feasible and you want to see it happen, take the initiative (and the risk) and do it...or does "we" mean "somebody else" to you?

[simonm]

Some of us are already laying the foundations.

[GPSGuided]

Top service Simon!

[Scottyk]

There is little gain in specialist equipment with very limited markets. The reality is nonone does it because the risk is huge and the reward is minimal. Real money is made by volume players like Kathmandu and Macpac (increasingly).

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

yeah I see that, but gee it is frustrating.

I bet "we" could do it if there was some streamlining of beaurocracy and red tape.
Just imagine we could have our Cressy Thermal tops with our Cape Barren Goose Down parkas all snuggled up in our Tassie Devil FACTORY SEAM SEALED (scream) tents...

Its something I often muse over.......
If you look at market and try and understand it a little it helps.
Most of the sales from the big chains like MD's, Macpac etc are to people that really don't go hiking. Its become fashionable to wear what is perceived to be "hiking" gear around the street etc, i'll guess that they are about 70% of sales from the chain stores. The non serious hiker like the first time Overland Track walkers walk into a store like Macpac and get 90% of what they require right there and go home.
So where does that leave us for the cottage type suppliers we are talking about?
The market is the serious hiker who has been doing for a while and knows the gear sold in the chains stores is not up to hard walking in Tas. This is a very small market, we might think we are a big community on forums like these but in market terms, we aren't.
There are some notable success stories from Oz and around the world that come to mind, One Planet, Tarp Tent, Helleberg etc. Theses guys have put ALOT of hard work over A LONG time to get to where they are. Its been attention to detail on great products and a very slow word of mouth process that has got them to where they are.

I am not trying to discourage anyone, I am still rolling ideas in my head for some products I could make but it really isn't as simple as some people make out.

[GPSGuided]

Most of the sales from the big chains like MD's, Macpac etc are to people that really don't go hiking. Its become fashionable to wear what is perceived to be "hiking" gear around the street etc, i'll guess that they are about 70% of sales from the chain stores...

What I'd say to that preference is a choice for functional wear than pure fashion. Outdoor gears are just by nature comfortable and functional to wear. I'd say that's what attracted many to these gears and then obviously there are those who followed from a fashion angle and got hooked by the comfort.

[north-north-west]

What I'd say to that preference is a choice for functional wear than pure fashion. Outdoor gears are just by nature comfortable and functional to wear. I'd say that's what attracted many to these gears and then obviously there are those who followed from a fashion angle and got hooked by the comfort.

To a degree, but too much clothing - women's especially - is more about fashion than comfort and practicality.

[aloftas]

Have a Tassie inspired wilderness gear co-op/company?
Make some iconic gear. Such as the Ultra light OLT pack, with an airmattress as the cushioning of the pack, the pack being a bivy, the tent or part of, being the raincover etc etc?

Why cant we make some warm thermals out of this fine merino wool?

Why cant we make the best sleeping bags?

One with synthetic bottom impervious layer, with primaloft on the bottom side and goose down on top?

We need to shake ourselves, realize the opportunity, and give some attention to the fact that if we don't, we may well end up like Greece.
Tourists deserve more than inflated prices on food and gear.

What do you mean "we"?

If you think it is feasible and you want to see it happen, take the initiative (and the risk) and do it...or does "we" mean "somebody else" to you?

Oh look, a Grammar person.

I mean "we" as in the collective.

If I meant "I" there would have been nothing to gain.

Its a bit like saying "why don't "we" have a conversation about this?"

Which is what "we", in the main, are doing.

[wayno]

look at how the cottage industry manufacturing companies work... taking online or mail orders. no bricks and mortar stores.
they usually specialise in what they make. ie down clothes, and or bags and quilts.
or shelters and or packs
but you look at the American companies and they have a massive potential market in the states to start with with less postage that would be incurred from an aus company.
almost all NZ companies manufacture in Asia. Earth Sea Sky I think still manufacture in NZ, they provide a lot of gear to large organisations like govt depts.
Swazi the hunting brand still manufacture in NZ as well.
I'm not aware of cottage industry type companies down under.
golite were originally a cottage industry manufacturer and expanded into their own branded stores in high street malls and went bankrupt.

[GPSGuided]

As you pointed out Wayno, Aussie companies are at a distinct disadvantage when accessing the global market on excess postage and delivery time. Definitely no next day delivery to the largest market...

[Gadgetgeek]

There are a few ways to go about it I suppose. Supporting the smaller retailers, who can then support the smaller manufacturers. For example, its highly unlikely that a cottage manufacture could get on the shelves at a BCF, but as they get into the independent stores, they get seen by people who don't spend most of their time online (like me). Its the downside of the market, you need a good web presence in this world, but most of the outdoor market are not tech people, so you need to expose them to the brands in other ways. The companies are there, and there are compelling products they just need more reach.

There is plenty of manufacturing still in australia, and I should think that any company that makes swags or other canvas gear should also have the means to put together a decent pack or tent, its more a matter of getting the design done right, and leveraging that capacity instead of re-inventing the wheel every time.

Unfortunately on the other hand, you have to be able to hit a price-point. One planet bags might be amazing and carry themselves, but the price is such that they are competing with other up-market brands that have better marketing. If One Planet could get enough of a foothold in the US to be in the big review sites, then it would be easy to see how they stack up against arcteyx, gregory, and the like. If that were to happen, they might stand a chance.
It would take a large company like the super-cheap group, or..... (are there any others left?) to have the pull to bring together the best of whats available, produce it at a volume that gets the price competitive, and have a wide enough supply chain to make it work. Macpac might have a shot, katmandu is a fashion brand as far as I can tell, and anaconda might as well be a surpluser.

Over the years I've bought a lot of MEC gear, and its been quite good. But more importantly, its been significantly cheaper than the competition. Getting there took them a very long time, and they build a brand that they've stuck to pretty well. But Canada is a much bigger market, Australian companies won't survive if their only market is australia, and as long as no one outside the south pacific knows about them, they aren't going to grow. Australia could do with a co-op style store like REI or MEC. a retailer that could allow some of the manufacturers to get out of the retail space and focus more on production and good product.

Australia has a lot of disadvantages when it comes to trying to grow a market. and I don't really know how hard those are to overcome. I think the current situation is proof enough that the way things are being done isn't going to be sustainable, but as for what's a winning option, I don't really know.

[aloftas]

wow, thanks guys for the amazingly well thought out replies. I think it is a wonderful thing to be able to have a ranging discussion without the Bellicose Semantics which some seem to think is a contribution.

I see now why xxxx is xxxx as some cannot spell "beer"

Cheers.

[wayno]

nz went from having a very small range of brands to being over saturated with brands in a decade or so. and then in recent years went into reverse. several major brands pulled out of distributing to NZ altogether,,, shows how competitive the market has become... and even big manufacturers arent immune to having to reduce their coverage
Columbia, mountain hardwear, mountain designs, berghaus, pagatonia, all gone now. variou s other brand are distributed here but sell in limited places with limited ranges..
Kathmandu have gotten into Britain. macpac tried going into America and opening stores there but they couldn't make enough headway and had to pull out of the market there.

[RonK]

Have a Tassie inspired wilderness gear co-op/company?
Make some iconic gear. Such as the Ultra light OLT pack, with an airmattress as the cushioning of the pack, the pack being a bivy, the tent or part of, being the raincover etc etc?

Why cant we make some warm thermals out of this fine merino wool?

Why cant we make the best sleeping bags?

One with synthetic bottom impervious layer, with primaloft on the bottom side and goose down on top?

We need to shake ourselves, realize the opportunity, and give some attention to the fact that if we don't, we may well end up like Greece.
Tourists deserve more than inflated prices on food and gear.

What do you mean "we"?

If you think it is feasible and you want to see it happen, take the initiative (and the risk) and do it...or does "we" mean "somebody else" to you?

Oh look, a Grammar person.

I mean "we" as in the collective.

If I meant "I" there would have been nothing to gain.

Its a bit like saying "why don't "we" have a conversation about this?"

Which is what "we", in the main, are doing.

Not a comment about grammar, but about the whining noise which all so often emanates from Tasmania.

a queenslander....

how quaint



how unsuprising

If you want to comment on my posts, please do it publicly. Don't bother to PM again.

Yes, a Queenslander - one of those people whose GST and tourist dollars help keep Tassie afloat...

[Nuts]

Queenslanders! They should be stopped at the NSW border and made to return all the footballs!
If you relaxed about giving us more GST, we'd not need one billion tourists.

afaik, Simon, in Tassie, is the only one with a collective outlet for cottage gear?

I too thought 'we' placed emphasis on some sort of co-op effort. Not a bad idea, so too starting with a local manufacturer, Tasworkwear do make some synthetic garments (a start).

Generally, it would take some $$, designs competitive on a global scale and probably some overseas component in the process anyway. I did some dunny roll math when considering offering a small tent/shelter including paying to keep someone in substantial employment (in a private enterprise).

a) Sound design and development aside, the return just wasn't there in the foreseeable future,
b) R&D would need to be funded by selling (ie. trying out gear by selling and hoping a stitch wasn't missing because),
c) I could not think of a more cantankerous market than 'serious' bushwalkers